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Just how little BSE in feed will result in transmission?

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You're funny Tim. Go back through your posts. At first you want proof of cattle fed brain material. When the studies were posted you changed it to "NO HOMOGENATES". I posted Dawsons study that fed incremental amounts of dried and cooked brain (just as MBM is) and you have rejected that.

Like I have said before, it is impossible to convince someone of something who refuses to look at the other side.

If you can show me research that BSE "IS NOT" transmissible by feed, show it to me. Bring it on! I promise I will read it and consider it. Unlike you.
 
Mike, I foolishly believed that it would be taken for granted that I meant "feeding a normal dosage" as would happen in the real world.
Then all these studies in which homogenate(concentrate) was used started showing up. That is why I "changed" it to no homogenate.
The Dawson study fed infective material(into the digestive tract) and then found infectivity.... in the digestive tract. No sh**. Did these animals develop full blown BSE??? Were their brains actually tested using IHC, Western Blot or other tests??? That is why I reject the Dawson study.

Mike- "If you can show me research that BSE "IS NOT" transmissible by feed, show it to me.
I hope you aren't asking me to prove a negative. I'm sure you are aware that that is impossible.
I'm not even suggesting that BSE is NOT transmissable through feed. I'm only pointing out that the feed theory is only an unproven theory. Scientist have NEVER succesfully infected a bovine with BSE through normal feeding.

Mike-" I promise I will read it and consider it. Unlike you."

Now Mike, How could you possibly know whether or not I read or consider things you post. Are you psychic?

Why don't you just post what I am asking for. :lol:
 
Experimental BSE Oral Attack Rate Study

An oral attack rate study in cattle (Dawson 1993) provides some insights. The study used untreated brain material from a pool of brains derived from cattle with clinically confirmed BSE. Groups of cattle were exposed to four different treatments regimes:100g of untreated brain material given orally on three occasions, or 100g given on one occasion; 10g given on one occasion; or 1g given on one occasion. The infectivity titre of the brain pool used in this study was about i/c ID50/g (refer to Appendix 2 for explanation); Dawson et al., 1993; Wells et al., 1994, 1996, 1998, 1999.

All four groups developed the disease. The attack rate was not 100% in the two low-dose groups (1g and 10g) and the incubation period was longer than in the high dose groups. It can be concluded that 1g of brain with an infectivity titre of 10 x 3.5 i/c ID 50g is probably not a limiting oral dose for cattle.

Read it again.
 
Here is the whole article that your post came from. Read appendix 2 and tell me they did not use homogenate in this study. In fact read the whole thing!! This article also makes liberal use of the terms "most likely" "probably" "appears to be" etc. etc. :) VERY scientific!! :roll:

http://72.14.207.104/search?q=cache...dy+in+cattle+(Dawson+1993)+provides+"&hl=en#7

Also, there is no mention of just exactly how they came to the conclusion that " all four groups developed the disease".

Sorry Mike, still no cigar for you!! :D
 
One of Mike's posts
Somehow prions make their way from the digestive tract to the central nervous system (Fig. 2). The relative resistance of prion infectivity to protease digestion (43) probably allows a significant proportion of the infectious agent to survive passage through the digestive tract (36). It is not clear how prions pass through the intestinal mucosa
Click to expand...
.


There is a lot more, in every post.

Funny how the whole world can vault this theory of transmission to "THE FACTS", not only without true experimental proof that could be easily done, BUT taking simple almost childlike sceintific statements like the one above and forming a base for this theory.

What on earth are you guys following here R2. What on earth is the whole world following. We need the basics to be covered. We need the simple experiment that Tim is asking for to be done. We can't follow these "if's" and "maybe's" and "not clear's" any longer.

The whole transmission theory is flawed from the start. They are guessing. The injestion and digestion theory is only that. A theory. Ask for proof. Ask for real proof.

The answers for how digestion of a misfolded prion occurs in all of your posts are less factual than alein abductions. OR maybe that's it. Maybe these cattle and sheep and vCJD victims are all victims of Alein abduction.

Come on you guys, ask these question of yourselves, if not of the icons you choose to follow.
 
The fact that chickens and pigs were still fed protein enriched feed that was banned from cattle feed. In turn, the remnants of the chickens and pigs were then fed to cattle log after the feed ban. TimH, do the math pal, science has proven that ingestion has been the main causitive method of PrPsc transmission to cattle and yet you still refuse to seek the truth throug hthe papers that are most certainly available to you, if you would only stop looking here and go to the sources already pointed out to you. It appears to me that you would not accept anything unless Christ himself delivered it to you and yet then, I suspect, you would still doubt the sincerity of the message. So, I will not bother with you or you blatant denial of the facts. , like Mike and others, have tried to help yet you still continue to act like someone who is paid to bash penny stocks while others try to offer you assistance. Good luck, it appears as if you will need it. The truth is out there and yet you refuse to look for it or even see it when it is offered to you for free. Too bad. So sad.
 
I can understand the motive behind bse tester following the flawed transmission theory, but what is your motive R2, or yours Mike? What do either of you hope to gain?

Why won't anyone do the independent study that would prove the rest of us wrong? Why is there not a group out there who would take the route suggested to cause BSE and prove it once and for all?

Take the SRM's and or brain material, mix it in the feed in the same way MBM would normaly be handled and feed it to a group of cattle. Why not bse tester, why not Mike, why not R2? Cause the money is in testing, and the danger is in exposing the truth.

Purdey has a theory. That theory says that metals cause the normally occuring prion to misfold. That simple statement has been twisted by R2 into his acceptence of transmission. No, R2, this statement means that all of the experiments conducted and then posted by yourself and MIke could involve simple transfer of metals. A hell of a lot more beleivable than some magical way that misfolded prions pass through the body, as in the well documented, generaly accepted theory.


If the metals are the problem, as Purdey suggests, the problem could eventually be solved. Not even looking there will keep the problem in our lives forever. Ignoring the problem, while lining the pockets of test companies, will only prolong the agony. BSE will not go away until we accept that it is not about transmission of misfolded prions, but about metal contamination or poisoning of individual cattle.
 
Not dodging R2. It is a stalemate. You have no solid proof and either do I.

Could be partially due to the organophsphate ban. Could be other environmental occurences that changed.

Or as YOU suggest, it COULD be the feed ban.

Personally, I think the feed ban is simply a good excuse to blame it on anything other than government policy of mutinational agenda.

Cheers
Gotta go haul some bulls out of our pastures this weekend. Keep up the fight R2, someone, somewhere may just need a bit more of your convincing. Sorry to say, that someone ain't Randy Kaiser.
 
Reader2, here is the study that TimH wants but I suspect he will never believe it anyway. But to silence the issue once and for all, here is one of the many studies:
BSE has been readily transmitted to not only cattle, but to sheep and goats both by intracerebral (I.C.) and oral route (Fraser et al, 1994). In a wide range of sheep breeds a single sheep gene called SIP was alleles, sA and pA, was considered to exert precise control over the timing of the appearance of symptoms and incidence of natural scrapie. Based on their response to scrapie agent challenge, Cheviot sheep at the Neuropathogenesis Unit (Edinburgh, UK) were divided into "Positive" and "Negative" lines (Foster et al, 1988) Both susceptible and resistant lines of sheep developed BSE after inoculation by IC and oral routes without significant or clear differences in the progress of infection or incubation periods between the routes or lines. These studies demonstrated that allelic complexity in sheep PrP gene failed to identify any genotype resistance to BSE. Transmission experiments in mink involving both IC and oral routes also revealed a greater affinity to the agent of a bovine origin compared to the scrapie sheep (Robinson, 1994) Direct transmission to mice from BSE infected tissues gave the same incubation period as those observed in experimentally passaged BSE sheep, goat and pig. (Foster et al, 1988).

As for posting a full-blown Paper, I am not going to do that since I feel that I and others here, Mike and Reader2 have tried to explain that studies are out there for those who wish to purchase them or seek them out at their local university libraries perhaps. But there is enough proof in the above article to convince Christ himself that BSE has been studied, transmitted in both innoculant and oral methods. Need I say more?
 
No cigar for you either, bse tester! Fraser (1994) managed to infect MICE WITH BSE by intracerebral injection. Sorry but that is just not the same as infecting a bovine through FEEDING A NORMAL DOSAGE. :roll:
 
4 month old calves, orally dosed with 100g of BSE-affected brain Brain, spinal cord, various ganglia, peripheral nerves, muscle, alimentary tract, heart, liver, kidney, lung, thymus, tonsil, spleen, lymph nodes, white blood cell fraction, bone marrow 20 mice per tissue Intracerebral and intraperitoneal inoculation Small intestine (6-18) months, brain, spinal cord, trigeminal and dorsal root ganglia (all around period of clinical onset), bone marrow (38 months)9,10,11

You lose Tim, you hung yourself.........

The above section describes feeding 4 month old calves infected brain material from BSE infected cattle. They in turn, injected the parts of the calf into the mice and the mice GOT BSE FROM THE CALF MATERIAL, IT MEANS THE CALVES WERE INFECTED FROM THE BSE INFECTED BRAINS THAT THEY WERE FED You Turd!

I sincerely hope you understand that at that time in history the only test for BSE was a mouse bioassay! That means injecting a mose with material and waiting for it to become infected. They used mice because the incubation time was shorter!

We have been telling you this all along. The calves were fed the infected brain, and they tested positive. Albeit it a bioassay, but still positive!

By the way, the mouse bioassay is still used by some labs as a conformatory test. Remember the goat? Yep, they waited until a mouse bioassay was done until confirming!

Sorry buddy, you should have let it lie. I had thought you had seen the light.
 
BSE has been readily transmitted to not only cattle, but to sheep and goats both by intracerebral (I.C.) and oral route (Fraser et al, 1994).



Doesn't that say BOTH intracerebal and oral route?
 
TimH said:
No cigar for you either, bse tester! Fraser (1994) managed to infect MICE WITH BSE by intracerebral injection. Sorry but that is just not the same as infecting a bovine through FEEDING A NORMAL DOSAGE. :roll:
Click to expand...

Tim, A mouse bioassay was the ONLY test in town at that time! Comprende?
 
Mike- "Tim, A mouse bioassay was the ONLY test in town at that time! Comprende?"

Ya. So what. That does not change the fact that Fraser WAS NOT SUCCESFUL IN FEEDING BSE TO A BOVINE.

Comprende?? :lol:
 
TimH said:
Mike- "Tim, A mouse bioassay was the ONLY test in town at that time! Comprende?"

Ya. So what. That does not change the fact that Fraser WAS NOT SUCCESFUL IN FEEDING BSE TO A BOVINE.

Comprende?? :lol:
Click to expand...

I will do my best to explain this just one more time. :???:

1-Calves were "Orally" fed BSE infected brain material.....are you following me?

2-When those calves organs were injected into the mice....the mice contracted BSE..........still following?

3- Which means the calves that ate the infected brain material got BSE.........OK, are you with me?

4- The way they knew the calves were infected is because of the tests that were done on the mice. The only test they had. Which was time consuming but very accurate!

GEEEEZZZZZ
 
Wrong Mikey!!(you turd) :lol: # 3 in the appendix is the Fraser study. The infective material came from..........

Cattle, natural BSE Brain, spinal cord, retina, fractions of blood, bone marrow, milk, cerebrospinal fluid, fat, alimentary tract, heart, kidney, pancreas, liver, lung, spleen, tonsil, lymph nodes, muscle, peripheral nerves, reproductive tracts including embryos and semen, skin, trachea 20-30 mice per tissue Inoculation (intracerebral and intraperitoneal) Brain, spinal cord, retina1,2,3,4
 
TimH said:
Wrong Mikey!!(you turd) :lol: # 3 in the appendix is the Fraser study. The infective material came from..........

Cattle, natural BSE Brain, spinal cord, retina, fractions of blood, bone marrow, milk, cerebrospinal fluid, fat, alimentary tract, heart, kidney, pancreas, liver, lung, spleen, tonsil, lymph nodes, muscle, peripheral nerves, reproductive tracts including embryos and semen, skin, trachea 20-30 mice per tissue Inoculation (intracerebral and intraperitoneal) Brain, spinal cord, retina1,2,3,4
Click to expand...

Get the food standards webpage up on your computer and call me. Right now!
1-800-467-0140
 
Mike- "Get the food standards webpage up on your computer and call me. Right now!
1-800-467-0140"

You have a toll-free number??? Wow!! :D

Sorry but I can't use the computer online and the phone at the same time.
What the hell do you want to talk about ,anyway?? :lol:
 
TimH said:
Mike- "Get the food standards webpage up on your computer and call me. Right now!
1-800-467-0140"

You have a toll-free number??? Wow!! :D

Sorry but I can't use the computer online and the phone at the same time.
What the hell do you want to talk about ,anyway?? :lol:
Click to expand...

I was gonna attempt to show you how the paper you posted proves the feed transmission theory.

Do you understand it yet?
 

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