Leachman charged with animal cruelty

[hypocritexposer]

I know a this guy in Venezuela.......

.......he could use a few horses.

 

[HAY MAKER]

I have/had seven horses one looks like the dead one. She's been up and down for the last year. In normal times I would have taken to a sale and she would have been slaughtered fullfilling the cycle of life and helping insure a profitable ranch. But with all the bleeding heart animal lovers in the world that is no longer an issue she would'nt have brought enough money to cover the cost of the fuel and commission. There fore she died a slower death but more romantic she was slowly starveing to death as old age or a disease of some sort ravaged her body. I finally just shot her to end her agony. Most people squirm at the idea. I'm sure Mr Leachman has some horses that are in good flesh and some that are not. You take a town of 400 people there will be young and old middle age,teenagers senior citizens. New borns and death all in the same week. Many are quick to pass judgement by a few photo's I bet the injured died or were shot.

The other horses in the photo's show a little rib but in range conditions I bet they are just fine. Maybe they should go out on the BLM land and find some wild horses I bet they are showing a little rib also. And if you look around you'll find some in better and poorer condition than the others you will also find young colts and old end of the road horses . You'll find dead horses,deer elk and so fourth. Those are all wild animals that starve to death in the end mother nature is harsh but stupid people make things worse.

I've had the pleasure of being interviewed by reporters and they normally have no clue to the real world of farming and ranching.Emotion,Promotion and commotion sells newspapers.

Things die this I do know.

I don't condone starveing any animal but I don't condone holding someone to the fire without the whole story from unbiased sources.I place the blame on the animal rights idiots for messing up a system that was working.

They look like range horses I bet there's a whole country full of them that look like those or worse.

If you want to do something I'd push for a horse slaughter facility in the USA and some education for horse owners that just because they own a mare they don't need to raise colts.

Spay your mares and Geld your studs seams I keep repeating myself.

denny the more you post the more you prove yourself to be a 2 bit sleaze bag,you are without a doubt a worthless SOB,anyone that has any living animal is obligated to provide humane care period,not cheap excuses,and if that means feed water and shelter or haulin the sob to town or a 30-30 winchester,get it done.
js

 

[LazyWP]

I totally agree with Denny on this. We have 9 head of horses here. They range from 23 down to 3, and for the most part they look pretty good, but there are 3 of them with hooves that are chipped out bad enough that they are limping, and no I am not calling the vet. They will be just fine after their feet grow back out.
It wasn't but a week or so ago, that Oldtimer was telling us that people were complaining that his low input livestock raising was abusive, or negligent. From his pictures his cattle look good to me, but I wonder if I was to nose around, could I possibly find a couple of cows that aren't carrying their weigh as well as the rest this winter. I am in now WAY saying that he is abusing his livestock, just saying that unless you know the whole, and complete story, you best do some more research, until you do know the whole truth.

 

[redrobin]

Found this site on the internet while trying to see how to help with this situation. Here is what I emailed to each of our 3 representatives:

Sir,

Please do something about the situation. I am personally willing to donate cash to feed these horses NOW. Can you organize or set up a mechanism where people like me can call or go online and give our credit card numbers to buy feed from a supplier? Others with the ability to donate time and/or trucks could then go to where the feed is paid for and pick it up. Further, my business - Billings Window and Door 406-294-8075 - can offer a 14' cube van and a pickup truck to haul feed.

We, as Montanans, CANNOT suffer the shame of letting these horses starve to death. I am willing to help get them fed NOW and sort out the guilty parties later. Please help.

Respectfully,
Karen Winkler
406-861-8795 cell
[email protected] email at home
[email protected] email at work

If any on this website can help direct me as to where I should go next, I would greatly appreciate it.

Karen whether you want to admit it or not, the trouble with the Leachman horses rests partly on the uneducated public banning horse slaughter. People outside the ranch industry have a big heart, much like yours, and they made foolish decisions which partly brought about the situation you're so upset about. We were well aware this kind of thing would come about. If you want to head off this kind of situation, go tell your friends and neighbors to put pressure politically to reestablish horse slaughter so the free market can once again rectify these type problems. That would be the thing you can do that would help the most.

Click below and search for horse slaughter. Some here have warned of these type things coming.
http://ranchers.net/forum/search.php?mode=results

 

[John SD]

I'm not a horse owner, but I agree with Denny and LazyWP.

Several years ago an old maid neighbor in the community passed away. A colt was stuck in a boghole. She was crippled herself and went in attempting to save the colt and got bogged down with the colt. Another neighbor went looking and found her a few days later. It was a sad deal but she died doing what she wanted to do. Most of her 300 head horse herd were inbred mongrels with not much worth to anyone. All ages.

When she passed away I was one of the neighbors entrusted to watching out for her livestock until they could be dispersed. One of the first things I did was put an old mare who was down and couldnt' get up out of her misery.

It is our responsibilty as ranchers and stockmen to care for our animals. If we can't, we should send them down the road to someone who can and will. It is also our responsibilty to make the necessary decision when the time comes to put a suffering animal out of their misery when there is no hope for improvement or recovery.

 

[Dylan Biggs]

denny the more you post the more you prove yourself to be a 2 bit sleaze bag,you are without a doubt a worthless SOB,anyone that has any living animal is obligated to provide humane care period,not cheap excuses,and if that means feed water and shelter or haulin the sob to town or a 30-30 winchester,get it done.
js

Hay Maker I admire your conviction on such issues, you certainly pull no punches. Haymakers as I understand them are punches thrown wildly with reckless abandon.

I watched the video on the link, and I read Denny's reply. IMO Denny made some legitimate points. Specifically with regard to the apparent acceptable BCS of the live horses they showed in the video, the possible suspect motives of those making the case in light of the negative feelings toward Mr. Leachman which are probably legitimate, and IMO the valid point of not jumping to conclusions with out the "whole story".

It appears that there are competent professionals involved in accessing and monitoring the situation and whatever actions they may or may not take, I am sure will be merited. Travis Elings Montana Dept of livestock appeared to me to be competent.

Things may have changed for the better or for the worse since that video, I don't know, but it appears competent people are on the job.

No doubt it is unquestionably unacceptable for animals to suffer as a result of negligence, there are no excuses.

 

[I Luv Herfrds]

I agree with Denny, but calling him names for speaking the truth is not cool.

I looked at the pictures, we have a 17 year old horse that starts showing some rib around this time too even though he has access to hay all the time.
My big question is how old are some of these horses?

I've owned a nasty tempered horse before and just like cattle they are not worth the hospital bill.

 

[Anonymous]

I do agree with Denny about the horses being able to do quite well just on winter pasture and running on the range... I've seen horses go out and leave hay- and prefer to paw and graze if the grass is there..

I have the opposite situation this year- with lots of grass (had to remove the cows a month early because of snow)- but left the few horses on the pasture and hoped they could graze all winter with excess grass the cows didn't use... And even tho the snow got deeper than a tall Indians rear- and even after I worried about them and felt sorry for them and hauled them up bales and Smartlic horse lic protein tubs- they preferred to be out pawing and grazing...
Only lately have they started hitting the last bales I left... If the temp don't warm up and get some clear areas soon- I'll have to haul some more bales in a week or so... And like Denny- I had a 28 year old saddle horse that was so crippled and suffering that I knew he'd never make the winter- so put him down this fall to end his suffering....Sure glad I did with the winter we've had....

Leachman is right that horses have been wintered on the range for years and years (Grandpa and Dad told me they used to turn all the horses they didn't need for winter chores out for the winter, and gather them up in the spring- sometimes having to go miles into Canada to find them)-and they would do plumb fine... They'd winter in the rougher breaks where many areas blow clear..

In looking at the Gazette pictures- and from what I know in talking with folks in the Billings/Hardin area- they have little snow (none compared to us )-- what it appears to me the horses may be lacking in where they are at (however they got there) is grass...And like Dylan said- I'm sure Ehlings can tell that.....

 

[Larrry]

Is this a possibility. The bank has shut him down from spending any money and he has no money to buy feed. Of course it is Leachmans fault but when the bank loaned the money and took the horses as collateral then they have an moral obligation to see this through. It might cost them but they ok'd the loan and have some responsibility.

 

[HAY MAKER]

I dont believe like denny,he is an admitted horse meat eater,admitted to keepin emanciated cows and always tryin to justify some worthless person by listening to their side of the story.
sayin he has horses similar to these,tells me all I need to know,the horse trade issue is complex and I dont have the answers,but I will say this,there is no way I am going to bed at nite with a full belly while my horses/cows are starvin,some folks might be able to sleep good,I caint,iyts the differnce between the "JS's" of the world and the folks like denny.
As hard as I have worked all my life keepin my animals fit and being forced to sell by droughts,I have little use for someones cheap excuse of why their animals are emanciated,as far as i am concerned talkins done
JS

 

[Whitewing]

I'll be the first to admit that I shot my mouth off without gathering as much information as I could. And even reading/watching what I could I certainly don't have the info there is on the story.

According to Leachman, the guy (Stovall) who now has control of the ranch is also exploiting the situation. Two sides to every story.

I just hope that in the end it's not the animals that end up suffering for the human's money games.

 

[HAY MAKER]

I'm not a horse owner, but I agree with Denny and LazyWP.

Several years ago an old maid neighbor in the community passed away. A colt was stuck in a boghole. She was crippled herself and went in attempting to save the colt and got bogged down with the colt. Another neighbor went looking and found her a few days later. It was a sad deal but she died doing what she wanted to do. Most of her 300 head horse herd were inbred mongrels with not much worth to anyone. All ages.

When she passed away I was one of the neighbors entrusted to watching out for her livestock until they could be dispersed. One of the first things I did was put an old mare who was down and couldnt' get up out of her misery.

It is our responsibilty as ranchers and stockmen to care for our animals. If we can't, we should send them down the road to someone who can and will. It is also our responsibilty to make the necessary decision when the time comes to put a suffering animal out of their misery when there is no hope for improvement or recovery.

Right there is the problem.........300 inbred mongrels,why they do this is something I have never been able to figger,just get what you can afford to care for,and if things change,change with em,99% of the time there is a right decision in the mix.
And just for clarification I am talkin about domesticated animals,not free ranging,I know they are interlaced and its a complex issue,but the simple answer 99% of the time is get what you can take care of,that's the heart of my argument folks abusing livestock.
The wild horse deal is another completely differnt matter.
js

 

[HAY MAKER]

I totally agree with Denny on this. We have 9 head of horses here. They range from 23 down to 3, and for the most part they look pretty good, but there are 3 of them with hooves that are chipped out bad enough that they are limping, and no I am not calling the vet. They will be just fine after their feet grow back out.
It wasn't but a week or so ago, that Oldtimer was telling us that people were complaining that his low input livestock raising was abusive, or negligent. From his pictures his cattle look good to me, but I wonder if I was to nose around, could I possibly find a couple of cows that aren't carrying their weigh as well as the rest this winter. I am in now WAY saying that he is abusing his livestock, just saying that unless you know the whole, and complete story, you best do some more research, until you do know the whole truth.

Why dont you put a pair of $10 shoes on those horses or get them to someone that will,they are worthless limpin like that,and they wont get any better unless their enviorment changes,some horses just need to be shod,some dont if you dont understand that and are caint afford a farrier,Do the right thing........loose the horses.
js

 

[Anonymous]

I totally agree with Denny on this. We have 9 head of horses here. They range from 23 down to 3, and for the most part they look pretty good, but there are 3 of them with hooves that are chipped out bad enough that they are limping, and no I am not calling the vet. They will be just fine after their feet grow back out.
It wasn't but a week or so ago, that Oldtimer was telling us that people were complaining that his low input livestock raising was abusive, or negligent. From his pictures his cattle look good to me, but I wonder if I was to nose around, could I possibly find a couple of cows that aren't carrying their weigh as well as the rest this winter. I am in now WAY saying that he is abusing his livestock, just saying that unless you know the whole, and complete story, you best do some more research, until you do know the whole truth.

Why dont you put a pair of $10 shoes on those horses or get them to someone that will,they are worthless limpin like that,and they wont get any better unless their enviorment changes,some horses just need to be shod,some dont if you dont understand that and are caint afford a farrier,Do the right thing........loose the horses.
js

Haymaker--just for info--- in snow country you don't want horses running loose to have shoes on them...Unless you're getting them in regularly and using them- and cleaning the snow out of their feet-- the shoes help retain snow and will cause a huge frozen ball to build up on the bottom- and really cause problems.. Without the shoes- the balls break off or clean themselves out...

I always jerk any shoes off before turning horses out on the range for the winter....

 

[jodywy]

I totally agree with Denny on this. We have 9 head of horses here. They range from 23 down to 3, and for the most part they look pretty good, but there are 3 of them with hooves that are chipped out bad enough that they are limping, and no I am not calling the vet. They will be just fine after their feet grow back out.
It wasn't but a week or so ago, that Oldtimer was telling us that people were complaining that his low input livestock raising was abusive, or negligent. From his pictures his cattle look good to me, but I wonder if I was to nose around, could I possibly find a couple of cows that aren't carrying their weigh as well as the rest this winter. I am in now WAY saying that he is abusing his livestock, just saying that unless you know the whole, and complete story, you best do some more research, until you do know the whole truth.

Why dont you put a pair of $10 shoes on those horses or get them to someone that will,they are worthless limpin like that,and they wont get any better unless their enviorment changes,some horses just need to be shod,some dont if you dont understand that and are caint afford a farrier,Do the right thing........loose the horses.
js

Haymaker--just for info--- in snow country you don't want horses running loose to have shoes on them...Unless you're getting them in regularly and using them- and cleaning the snow out of their feet-- the shoes help retain snow and will cause a huge frozen ball to build up on the bottom- and really cause problems.. Without the shoes- the balls break off or clean themselves out...

soon as hunting season and roundup done in the fall the shoes come off, those that use feed team don't shoe either, still some horse in this country pawing feed .
we used to winter alot of people horse moving them behind the calves, feed in to pastures and the horses in the thrid, let the calves into the new feed in the afternoon and the horse got what was left from the morning

 

[HAY MAKER]

I totally agree with Denny on this. We have 9 head of horses here. They range from 23 down to 3, and for the most part they look pretty good, but there are 3 of them with hooves that are chipped out bad enough that they are limping, and no I am not calling the vet. They will be just fine after their feet grow back out.
It wasn't but a week or so ago, that Oldtimer was telling us that people were complaining that his low input livestock raising was abusive, or negligent. From his pictures his cattle look good to me, but I wonder if I was to nose around, could I possibly find a couple of cows that aren't carrying their weigh as well as the rest this winter. I am in now WAY saying that he is abusing his livestock, just saying that unless you know the whole, and complete story, you best do some more research, until you do know the whole truth.

Why dont you put a pair of $10 shoes on those horses or get them to someone that will,they are worthless limpin like that,and they wont get any better unless their enviorment changes,some horses just need to be shod,some dont if you dont understand that and are caint afford a farrier,Do the right thing........loose the horses.
js

Haymaker--just for info--- in snow country you don't want horses running loose to have shoes on them...Unless you're getting them in regularly and using them- and cleaning the snow out of their feet-- the shoes help retain snow and will cause a huge frozen ball to build up on the bottom- and really cause problems.. Without the shoes- the balls break off or clean themselves out...

I always jerk any shoes off before turning horses out on the range for the winter....

Interesting.........do you let em run unshod till they start limpin,and I thought the op said his horses hooves were being chipped ?
js

 

[jodywy]

Why dont you put a pair of $10 shoes on those horses or get them to someone that will,they are worthless limpin like that,and they wont get any better unless their enviorment changes,some horses just need to be shod,some dont if you dont understand that and are caint afford a farrier,Do the right thing........loose the horses.
js

Haymaker--just for info--- in snow country you don't want horses running loose to have shoes on them...Unless you're getting them in regularly and using them- and cleaning the snow out of their feet-- the shoes help retain snow and will cause a huge frozen ball to build up on the bottom- and really cause problems.. Without the shoes- the balls break off or clean themselves out...

I always jerk any shoes off before turning horses out on the range for the winter....

Interesting.........do you let em run unshod till they start limpin,and I thought the op said his horses hooves were being chipped ?
js

they are on snow, shoes fill up and freeze then the horse is tring to walk on frozen snow balls. They are on snow, no rock to chip off or get lame up on. :roll: snow over 30 inches deep here but in timber and willows a horse can still paw for feed, mine are on hay but there other who's horses are still out. neighbor got 400 head of dude rental horses they are feeding no shoes on any of them or the feed team that pull the bob sleigh

 

[HAY MAKER]

Haymaker--just for info--- in snow country you don't want horses running loose to have shoes on them...Unless you're getting them in regularly and using them- and cleaning the snow out of their feet-- the shoes help retain snow and will cause a huge frozen ball to build up on the bottom- and really cause problems.. Without the shoes- the balls break off or clean themselves out...

I always jerk any shoes off before turning horses out on the range for the winter....

Interesting.........do you let em run unshod till they start limpin,and I thought the op said his horses hooves were being chipped ?
js

they are on snow, shoes fill up and freeze then the horse is tring to walk on frozen snow balls. They are on snow, no rock to chip off or get lame up on. :roll: snow over 30 inches deep here but in timber and willows a horse can still paw for feed, mine are on hay but there other who's horses are still out. neighbor got 400 head of dude rental horses they are feeding no shoes on any of them or the feed team that pull the bob sleigh

I understand the practise of yankin shoes off horses ,do it to mine when I aint using them thru the winter,have an old friend that shoed horses in Montana/wyoming said they use alot of pads and studs on horses they use thru the winter.
and yank the others off,and I understand ice build up on hooves,are you sayin that's what's chippin the horses hooves and makin em limp :roll:
js

 

[Hereford76]

so does anyone know the detail or law associated with a sheriffs sale when Turk spent the 2.6.... is he responsible for the horses or not? is there a standard in place or are they different from case to case. there had to have been something signed or in writing as to who was responsible for the horses. i might be wrong but i wouldn't want to be in turk's shoes right now. you can be sure that leachman is going to find a way to redeme it cause that place is worth way more than 2.6 million. i have a sneaking suspicion its a fued deal gone bad. i hope it isn't the case that moving those horses where he did doesn't come back to bite them in the arse.

i would like to see a stat on the horses that die on the blackfoot reserve every year... i think the bears sure appreciate them come spring time.

 

[Northern Rancher]

Just looking through the pictures and the majority of horses look pretty healthy to me-can't comment on the injured or put down ones-those sound like bad deals though. There's 1,000's of horses in northern ranch country winter like that and are just fine-unless you see a pic of every horse it's hard to judge. I think that country is pretty strong winter grass country.