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lick tubs ?

I think crystalyx is one of the better ones. MLS makes a pretty good
tub too. But convenience is expensive...

I did hear of a producer at one of the Cattlemen's forums in
Rapid City who got up and said he worked for Crystalyx and they
went over to Whitewood and got wood shavings to put in the
product for fiber. Now I can't prove that is true, but I heard it more
than once, from several who were there. Since the person
who made the comment no longer works there, perhaps he had
an ax to grind. But bottom line, you really don't know what all is
in lick tubs. We had a real bad incidence with one brand that
a customer bought. Talk about JUNK. YUK!!

And range cattle, in the winter, in this area, cannot break down the
urea to use it as protein.

Do you know that nutritionists do not figure in urea when figuring
the protein content? Cows cannot utilize urea in cold climates...
 
Faster horses said:
I stand by what I said. If you don't have at least a 70% TDN diet,
urea isn't doing you any good. That's why nutritionists do not figure
the protein from the urea. You can look it up.
Click to expand...

Digestible energy or total digestible nutrients (TDN) content of the ration effects the utilization of NPN. Rations high in digestible energy (high grain) result in good urea utilization; those that are low in digestible energy (high forage) result in a lowered utilization of urea. The addition to a high forage ration of any feed that will increase TDN will improve urea utilization. Utilization of urea by animals fed high forage rations will be improved by the addition of grain or molasses. Molasses will not improve the utilization of urea when high grain rations are fed, however.

As for the 70% rule, I've never heard of it. That would eleminate corn silage which could contain considerable NPN. Also pretty hard to build a 70% TDN diet around wheat straw and other roughage products that are low quality. Probably 80% of the commercial cattle feeds sold have a TDN of less than 70%....many considerably less.
 
This has been an interesting thread. Haymaker's comments interested me. I guess I will have to go back and look at some of my books on animal nutrition. I always believed that the microbes in the rumen could use a small amount of non protein nitrogen. It appears that the rumen bugs are selective in what they eat, just like the cow, and well, I suppose, just like us.

Animal nutrition is an interesting field, If I was young, it would be an area I might consider getting into. Human nutrition too. It seems we know more of our livestocks nutritional needs then we do our own.

Years back, on our farm/ranch, we raised both cattle and hogs. Pigs require a different quality of protein then do cattle. This makes you aware of how a ruminant animal converts simple proteins to the more complex amino acids.
 
Clarencen said:
It appears that the rumen bugs are selective in what they eat,..
Click to expand...
Exactly...every time we change what our cattle are eating, the rumen bugs have to change to match it in type and proportion...stress! Dr. Dick Diven said the bugs that utilize grain begin eating the bugs that utilize cellulose when the grain is taken away...cattle end up with the wrong bugs or no bugs to utilize what they are eating. That's what I like about a 100% forage diet...no rumen change, no stress.

For human nutrition, eat food the way God made it with at least 50% of the calories coming from protein and animal fats...and little to no processed food.
 
Clarencen said:
This has been an interesting thread. Haymaker's comments interested me. I guess I will have to go back and look at some of my books on animal nutrition. I always believed that the microbes in the rumen could use a small amount of non protein nitrogen. It appears that the rumen bugs are selective in what they eat, just like the cow, and well, I suppose, just like us.

Animal nutrition is an interesting field, If I was young, it would be an area I might consider getting into. Human nutrition too. It seems we know more of our livestocks nutritional needs then we do our own.

Years back, on our farm/ranch, we raised both cattle and hogs. Pigs require a different quality of protein then do cattle. This makes you aware of how a ruminant animal converts simple proteins to the more complex amino acids.
Click to expand...


Exactly. Urea is broken down in the rumen by the bacteria with the enzyme urease. Each molecule of urea is broken into two molecules of ammonia and one of carbon dioxide. It takes energy for the bacteria to take the ammonia and incorporate it into protein. This is why urea works best in high energy rations. The rational behind putting urea in molasses is because of the sugar value of molasses.
 

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