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luxury or necessity????

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Is gasoline/diesel a luxury or a necessity?

  • Luxury

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Necessity

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    0
  • Poll closed .

BBJ

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I had this discussion with hiredmanswife and she views fuel as a necessity in our lives. I on the other hand view it as a luxury. Simply put if the worlds supply of gasoline/diesel (petroleum products) vanished from the face of the earth, we would not just fall over dead after a few weeks of not having it. Yes our lives would inded change. We could not make the 30 minute trip to town as randomly as we do now, it would take some planning and it would probably happen less frequently.

Opinions please. :)
 
I agree on the " gas/fuel" issue ........BUT there are TONS of things made from petroleum other than fuels. Things that are important in medical research, hospitals, etc. I'd be here all day and the next if I wanted to make a list.

It's one of those " gotta have" things now!
 
The way the world is now,I believe it is a necessity,I guess our culture has made it that way but yes it is necessary.Too many lives DEPEND on it for food,jobs ect.
 
Definitely a necessity in todays world-- and some are making fortunes because of that fact...

I read today where ExxonMobils ex Chairman and CEO Lee Raymond just got a retirement package worth nearly $400 million dollars-- this includes cash, stock options, country club fees and lifetime use of a company jet....The article was uncertain whether he took the lump sum payment or the annual pension of $8 million per year... :roll: :roll: :mad: :mad: :(
 
I could walk to work.....but there would be no point, as no work ....

I could walk to the store......but the truck that delivered the food would not be there.....so again no food no point walking.....

heck given time Most could either walk, (or ride a horse) to whereever we need to go on a daily basis....but with out fuel there would be no point going anywheres but to church.....and with all the hungry, jobless people it would be packed......
 
The original gasoline internal combustion engine was designed to run on alochol.

The original diesel designed by a Dr. Diesel was designed to run on peanut oil, but it's design is to run on multiple fuel sources.


However if you intend to live in the country and be sovereign and live off your land, then you will probably be doing business with the Amish and learning new skills.
 
Speaking of cars running on alcohol.....YEARS ago, I just can barely remember it , my grandfather a "King" of Moonshine ran his cars and trucks on white lightin'!!

I guess he thought he had plenty to spare...plenty to sell and plenty to use in the autos. I dont' remember any probloems with it either!!!
 
For all those who think fuel is a luxury...a question for you.


When you 'walk' to the grocery, bodega whatever ya got nearby....what ya gonna buy when you get there? Without fuel there will be no groceries for you city folk!!!!

Now, folks like us out here in the hills and woods..we can grow a patch of this or that...hunt a squirell or two, get an antelope, elk or deer. We'll prob do fine.

It takes a LONG LONG time for the Amish to get to the inner city, the suburbs etc. Those ol' horses don't move too fast, then ya got thrown shoes-the equal to a flat tire if ya don't know that--,rock in the hoof...ah..the list goes on.
 
I agree with most that "fuel" is a necessity. But it doesn't have to be gasoline. We need to put more money into alternative fuels research.
 
Disagreeable said:
I agree with most that "fuel" is a necessity. But it doesn't have to be gasoline. We need to put more money into alternative fuels research.

I don't know how this is going to affect the rotation of the planets and such but I think dis and I may be in agreement here. :shock:

My point is that if gasoline "fuel" vanished the world would not END. I knew there was a huge dependency on fuel, but I didn't think there were so many in the state of mind that if it were gone tomorrow they would just quit and die.

Yeah I know the world would defintely change. ALOT of lives would be affected but I don't know that I would just die from lack of gasoline, maybe a snakebite and not making it somewhere fast enough would do it but I wouldn't die from an absence of gasoline in my life. If oxygen diasappeared yeah we would be up a creek w/o a paddle but gasoline? :???:

Given the results of the poll it looks like I'm in the minority on this one but I still haven't changed my mind. Oh well. :)
 
Disagreeable said:
I agree with most that "fuel" is a necessity. But it doesn't have to be gasoline. We need to put more money into alternative fuels research.

Why can't the private sector pay for their own research? Isn't that the way capitalism works? I agree with the need for more research in alternative fuels just don't think it ought to come out of our pockets and the big companies reap the rewards when if and when it does come to fruition.
 
We certainly need fuel. If we rode horses, hay would be the fuel. If we walk then perhaps beans and rice. As for fossil fuels, we've allowed an unhealthy dependance on fossil fuels to develope that will be slow to change. When the Saudies drove oil down below $10 to close marginal wells in the US, Klinton should have implemented an import tax, but called it an externalties tax, for the purpose of developing alternatives to fossil fuels.


The wind energy incentives in the Bush energy bill are a good start, but we need solar energy to realize 1 big efficiency breakthrough to begin replacing oil.
 
It is unfortunate, but fuel has become a nesessity to us, just like air conditioning. How many of you couldnt live without your AC??? so much is made out of fuels, until we find an alternitave, we are stuck.. I know i drive to work 25 miles each day one way. there is no way i could do that unless i decided to move to town. That is the only way thinks would work. What about heating your town? I guess Nat gas is also a luxury? we could all chop wood or collect cattle dung.......Fuel oil to heat the home is diesel fuel........there are so much now thats a nesessity when not long ago it was luxury. Remember cell phones? How many of you could live without one now?
 
Brazil is totally dependant on it's own bio fuel. Sugarcane. We are in the process of making our own biodiesil out of our sunflowers... We will be farming with it this summer....Hopefully we won't be depending on any rag head for our fuel.
 
Brazil - A Bio-Energy Superpower


By Mario Osava*

Exports of fuel alcohol produced from sugarcane, a renewable energy source, will be worth two billion dollars in 2004, an increase of almost 300 percent over last year.

RIO DE JANEIRO - Rising oil prices and the upcoming implementation of the Kyoto Protocol on greenhouse gases, following the recent ratification by Russia, are accelerating the process by which Brazil is confirming its position as a world leader in ''bio-energy''.

Exports of alcohol made from sugarcane are expected to increase from 800 million liters last year to two billion liters this year, and the expansion trend is maintained independently of world oil prices.

There are many countries, like Japan, that are moving to blend ethanol with gasoline, or increase the alcohol additives in fuel, as a means towards curbing air pollution.

It augurs for renewable energy sources having a strong global impulse with the implementation of the Kyoto Protocol, which sets goals for reducing emissions of greenhouse gases, responsible for climate change.

The Russian Senate announced its ratification of the global treaty Oct. 27. Once it is signed by the Russian president, the Kyoto Protocol will enter into force, as it has finally achieved the required threshold of countries: a total that produces at least 55 percent of the world's greenhouse gases.

In Brazil, renewable fuel is recuperating the popularity it had in the 1980s, and not just because of the lower price. There is a growing demand for ''bi-fuel'' automobiles that can use gasoline, fuel alcohol or any mix of the two. These cars were put on the market last year.

In 1985 and 1986, alcohol-fuelled vehicles had achieved the incredible proportion of 76 percent of all of Brazil's car production. But supply and price problems eroded the Proalcohol program for fuel substitution, begun with the petroleum crisis of 1973.

Output of alcohol-driven cars hit bottom in 1997 -- just 0.06 percent of total car production, according to Brazil's National Association of Automotive Manufacturers.

Since then there has been a gradual recovery, which was particularly notable last year, with 84,173 alcohol-fuelled cars, including the bi-fuel vehicles, represented 4.6 of automotive production. This year that portion is expected to be five times as big, as 253,817 such cars were produced from January through September.

The possibility of using one fuel or another, along with the reasonable price, contributes to public confidence in alcohol as a fuel in general. It reduces the risk of shortages or sudden price hikes at service stations.

In addition, all gasoline in Brazil contains 20 to 25 percent anhydrous alcohol, which reduces petroleum dependency and pollution. And work is beginning on manufacturing crop spraying aircraft that run on ethanol.

The subsidized development of Proalcohol cost some 40 billion dollars, but the country has ''already recovered those expenses'' and is now seeing its fruits, including the continued development of related technology, Osvaldo Stella Martins, an expert with the National Center for Biomass Research, told Tierramérica.

The sugarcane needed to make Brazil the world leader in sugar and alcohol production also generates enormous quantities of waste pulp, a source of energy that feeds the electricity market as well as running the sugar mills and distilleries.

Now the new biodiesel program is motivating researchers and business leaders. The government announced that it will authorize its addition to regular diesel fuel in November, in a proportion of two percent and increasing to five percent over the next few years.

Beyond reducing the need to import fuel and curbing environmentally harmful emissions, the program is intended to be socially inclusive, generating hundreds of thousands of jobs and promoting family farming in impoverished areas, says Science and Technology Minister Eduardo Campos.

It is also a government priority to promote production of fuel using the castorbean (Ricinus communis) in the Brazilian northeast, the country's poorest region. But biodiesel made from castorbeans must be more heavily subsidized, as it costs three times more than petroleum, said Stella, a mechanical engineer who holds a doctorate in ecology and natural resources.

Castor oil, the raw material for hundreds of chemical, medicinal and cosmetic products, has great unsatisfied global demand, and it would be more logical to promote its production as an industrial input, instead of using it for biodiesel and burdening society with the cost of subsidies in order to ''resolve a problem for Petrobras,'' the giant state-run oil company, he said.

The problem is that Petrobras must produce diesel without sulfur, for environmental protection reasons, and it would be better to substitute that lubricant with biodiesel, transferring costs to society, explained the expert.

Studies are under way for producing biodiesel using other plant sources, and even from the vegetable oil waste in cities, such as from food processing and restaurant cooking.

The alternative that most excites Stella and forestry engineer Laercio Couto, president of the National Network for Biomass Energy, is to make use of agricultural and forestry waste.

Lumber production uses 45 percent of the tree, leaving ''incredible'' biomass sources, Couto told Tierramérica.

The lumber waste is packed into cylinders to reduce volume and humidity, and to facilitate transport, and is exports to Europe are beginning. But last year just 40,000 tons were sold, while the demand reaches two million tons, the engineer added.

Brazil, with its land, sun, and water resources, is a major producer of biomass, and the process of photosynthesis makes the South American country an energy superpower, according to José Bautista Vidal, the ''father'' of Proalcohol.

However, the great distances and insufficient infrastructure that make transportation expensive continue to create obstacles in the energy business beyond local production and use, Couto said
 
katrina said:
Brazil is totally dependant on it's own bio fuel. Sugarcane. We are in the process of making our own biodiesil out of our sunflowers... We will be farming with it this summer....Hopefully we won't be depending on any rag head for our fuel.
:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

That is exactly the point I was trying to make. When people get seriously fed up with the high prices of "fuel" they will do something about it. Walking to work might not have been the best solution I could have came up with, but it is definitely an option. Developing an alternate fuel is another way around using the evil "gasoline" that we are complaining about. Biodiesel, solar power, horse & buggy, or your legs are all alternate ways around gasoline.

Just my 2 cents here, but the reason gas prices are so high is because they(oil company's) know the results of polls like this and they know how DEPENDENT we are on it. The oil companies know people view it as a necessity for life and thus they charge big bucks for it because they know we will keep paying.
 
BBJ said:
That is exactly the point I was trying to make. When people get seriously fed up with the high prices of "fuel" they will do something about it. Walking to work might not have been the best solution I could have came up with, but it is definitely an option. Developing an alternate fuel is another way around using the evil "gasoline" that we are complaining about. Biodiesel, solar power, horse & buggy, or your legs are all alternate ways around gasoline.

Those of us who live fifty miles from the nearest shopping, livestock markets, feed stores, etc., can't "choose" to walk. We require fuel. Today that's gasoline or diesel.

Just my 2 cents here, but the reason gas prices are so high is because they(oil company's) know the results of polls like this and they know how DEPENDENT we are on it. The oil companies know people view it as a necessity for life and thus they charge big bucks for it because they know we will keep paying.

Prices are high because they can gouge us with no fear that they'll be called to task by our Republican government. Years ago, our government called for and got "windfall profit taxes" on those unwarranted high fuel profits. Today the Republican-led Senate won't even require the heads of our major oil companies be sworn in to testify about those profits! Actually, they not only didn't require it, they voted down the Democrats' request that they be sworn in. The oil companies are not even paying taxes on much of those profits. Yet you continue to support and approve of this administration.
 
Southdakotahunter said:
It is unfortunate, but fuel has become a nesessity to us, just like air conditioning. How many of you couldnt live without your AC??? so much is made out of fuels, until we find an alternitave, we are stuck.. I know i drive to work 25 miles each day one way. there is no way i could do that unless i decided to move to town. That is the only way thinks would work. What about heating your town? I guess Nat gas is also a luxury? we could all chop wood or collect cattle dung.......Fuel oil to heat the home is diesel fuel........there are so much now thats a nesessity when not long ago it was luxury. Remember cell phones? How many of you could live without one now?

I could easily live without AC, cellphones, etc. When I was a kid, I spent my weekends, and large chunks of my summer without electricity or indoor plumbing. But I think the bigger picture is being missed by the handful that think it's a luxury. (and most of the world's population lives in an urban area and wouldn't be able to chop wood, collect cattle dung, or house their own horses anyway)

Like it or not, we live in a global economy. Even if our economy were completely contained within the US, we rely on fuels to transport food, goods and services.
I have a couple of book coming today from Amazon via UPS. I took my daughter to preschool this morning. (40 miles one way). I stopped at the grocery store today and everything I bought was brought in on a truck. We swung by my son's gradeschool on the way home because I needed to sign the permission slip that would let him go to our county seat for a program today. Via school bus. Farmers in my neck of the woods are getting their fields ready to plant. And using a lot of fuel to do it. The mail, etc, etc.

Due to population density, our country (and most in the world) has an increasingly specialized population in that we cooperate to trade amongst our different talents and professions. Ie, we in production ag. feed far more than just ourselves. Someone in electronics isn't making stereos for just themselves. I don't know how to create my own car, and so on and so forth.
If fuel disppeared tomorrow, it would literally shut down the globe. Not because people just throw up their hands and roll over, but because there is almost no aspect of our existance that doesn't need fuels to support it.



could we go back to living like pre-20th century? Sure, but we'd have to kill off a lot of people to do so and almost every technological advancement we've made in the last hundred years would have to shut down.
 

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