Big Muddy rancher
Well-known member
BAR BAR 2 said:
Didn't Ian Tyson make a hero out of him in a song?
My Game warden friend doesn't like for it. :?
Manhunt resumes for gunman in Utah ranger shooting
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Didn't Ian Tyson make a hero out of him in a song?
My Game warden friend doesn't like for it. :?
A
Anonymous
Guest
To be politically correct, I'd say he told one side of the story. Its been quite a while ago, but I read a couple of books on the ordeal, and they each told a different story. I would imagine that your friend wasn't too happy. I gave up on Ian Tyson when I heard about him performing for a bunch of Greenie Cowboy Wannabes, and he was applauding efforts to protect the wolf.
leanin' H
Well-known member
Claude Dallas was a cold blooded killer who didnt deserve the lead in a bullet to take him out. Ian Tyson has written and sang some great songs over the years but he lost all my respect when he tried to make a hero out of a thug. Waddie Mitchell was a Dallas supporter and actually testified at his trial but he has always liked to hear himself talk.
katrina
Well-known member
Could this guy be our own arizonacowboy??? 
:roll: :wink:
:roll: :wink:Lonecowboy
Well-known member
Big Muddy rancher said:
Dallas got out of prison 2 years ago.
Jigger Boss
Well-known member
leanin' H said:
I guess everyone perceives differently. Not knowing the story of Claude Dallas before Ian's song, I don't feel the song made a hero out of him at all. Ian is simply telling the story as I assume he percieved it. He did not take sides in his song as far as I can see. I like the song. There are lots of singer/songwriters out there that have controversial songs out there, but why lose respect for the artist for one song?. Blue Rodeo is my favorite group, they have a song that I don't agree with, but I don't lose repect for them for that one song. I still think they are the best band going... all their other songs far outweigh the one I don't care for... I just choose not to listen to that one song.
katrina
Well-known member
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=crfpN3n8lR0
Jigger Boss
Well-known member
katrina said:
Thats my favorite Blue Rodeo song!!
leanin' H
Well-known member
Jigger Boss said:
While I respect your opinion, I disagree. Why buy albums and support a person that you blantantly disagree with? I did the same thing when Robert Redford stood next to Clinton and stole the Grand Staircase National Monument from ranchers and folks who used to make a living off that country. Redford sure didnt volunteer his canyon retreat in the wasatch mountains for a park! He just keeps selling lift tickets to skiers and motel rooms to guests while ranchers lost their permits and small towns almost dried up and blew away thanks to the monument. I won't see another Redford movie and missed the Horse Whisperer for the same reason. Tyson chose to glorify a man who killed 2 game wardens, threw one naked in a river and drug the other's body up a trail behind a mule a half a mile where he loaded it in a truck a "disposed" of it for over a year until he wanted to gain points at trial by telling where he'd hid it. By then the body had been scattered by coyotes and it was very tramatic for the family of Bill Pogue, the man who was attempting to write a ticket for illegally taking bobcats when he was shot. Connley Elms was also shot to death by Dallas and was dumped in the river naked. Not my definition of somebody to write a song about. But that is just my opinion. Ya'll can think and do what you'd like.
Northern Rancher
Well-known member
Nobody every writes a song about the good guys unfortunately.
Jigger Boss
Well-known member
leanin' H said:Jigger Boss said:
While I respect your opinion, I disagree. Why buy albums and support a person that you blantantly disagree with? I did the same thing when Robert Redford stood next to Clinton and stole the Grand Staircase National Monument from ranchers and folks who used to make a living off that country. Redford sure didnt volunteer his canyon retreat in the wasatch mountains for a park! He just keeps selling lift tickets to skiers and motel rooms to guests while ranchers lost their permits and small towns almost dried up and blew away thanks to the monument. I won't see another Redford movie and missed the Horse Whisperer for the same reason. Tyson chose to glorify a man who killed 2 game wardens, threw one naked in a river and drug the other's body up a trail behind a mule a half a mile where he loaded it in a truck a "disposed" of it for over a year until he wanted to gain points at trial by telling where he'd hid it. By then the body had been scattered by coyotes and it was very tramatic for the family of Bill Pogue, the man who was attempting to write a ticket for illegally taking bobcats when he was shot. Connley Elms was also shot to death by Dallas and was dumped in the river naked. Not my definition of somebody to write a song about. But that is just my opinion. Ya'll can think and do what you'd like.
And I respect your opinion, but there will always be songs and books about renegades.
The Ballad of Bonnie and Clyde by Georgie Fame & Blue Flames was a huge hit in its day. Far bigger than Ian's Claude Dallas song.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ubOI9yY55JU
By the way... Horse Whisperer wasn't worth the watch anyways. You didn't miss anything. :wink:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claude_Dallas
cowboyup
Well-known member
In my opinion Claude Dallas just wanted to be left alone. Sometimes a badge makes some people just a little overzealous. I am not against law and order, Johnny France is a very good friend, I just think people should be left alone unless they are being a menace to society.
Soapweed
Well-known member
Having just listened to Ian Tyson's song "Claude Dallas" again tonight, I think he immortalized the event more than the man. All in all, it was an unfortunate happening, but Ian did say in his song, "There are two sides to this story........." I am not sure he necessarily took sides. He just wrote the song about a wild west occurance.
There's two sides to this story; there may be no right or wrong.
The lawman and the renegade have graced a thousand songs.
The story is an old one, conclusions hard to draw,
But Claude's out in the sage tonight, he may be the last outlaw.
Aye,aye,aye.
Ian Tyson is one of my very favorite singers of all time. Most of his songs are mellow and melodious, and just plain make a guy glad to be a part of the cowboy profession. The only songs of his I don't care for are the rap-type stuff, but that is not enough to make me quit listening to him.
It was certainly not right, or heroic, or justified for Claude Dallas to shoot the two game wardens. On the other hand, sometimes when a person has a badge and a bit of authority, they can become so self-important and big shotty that they need taken down a notch or two.
It's a tough call, but I still like Ian Tyson's singing.
There's two sides to this story; there may be no right or wrong.
The lawman and the renegade have graced a thousand songs.
The story is an old one, conclusions hard to draw,
But Claude's out in the sage tonight, he may be the last outlaw.
Aye,aye,aye.
Ian Tyson is one of my very favorite singers of all time. Most of his songs are mellow and melodious, and just plain make a guy glad to be a part of the cowboy profession. The only songs of his I don't care for are the rap-type stuff, but that is not enough to make me quit listening to him.
It was certainly not right, or heroic, or justified for Claude Dallas to shoot the two game wardens. On the other hand, sometimes when a person has a badge and a bit of authority, they can become so self-important and big shotty that they need taken down a notch or two.
It's a tough call, but I still like Ian Tyson's singing.
leanin' H
Well-known member
How does killing two guys justify wanting to be left alone? :???: If Dallas hadnt POACHED the bobcats, he would of had zero trouble with the Fish and Game, right? If he would of waited for the season to start, he would of had zero trouble with F&G, right? If he would of just taken the ticket and his medicine, we wouldnt be debating this, right? Hell, I want to be left alone. I despise big citys (Over 1000 people is big to me), I hate dealing with the public on the allotment, I mind my business and and try to live and let live. And as long as follow the rules that civilization has set down, i am golden. Both speeding tickets I have earned in my lifetime were because MY right foot was too heavy. The cop was doing his job. Soap, Dallas killed two men that left families. Grandkids they will never know. Sunrises they will never see. OVER A BOBCAT TICKET? :???: That is a pretty cheap value of a guys life dont ya think. And how can we have ANY rules or game regulations if we justify breaking them by saying "He just wants to be left alone"? If we all started poaching at will and used the same defense of our actions, what happens to game populations? I'd think if Dallas really wanted to be "left alone", he wouldnt of poached the bobcats in question.....or the multiple bighorns he shot ........or the cougars.......or the mustangs he killed to ring the kill site with traps to catch coyotes.......or the multiple times he bragged about his disistain for ANY law enforcement. Are cops all perfect? No way! Should they pay for that imperfection with thier lives? Should any of us? :???: Claude Dallas was a deserter, a liar, a wanta-be cowboy, a poacher and is a convicted killer. Bill Pogue and Conelly Elms were game wardens with families doing a job because Dallas CHOSE to break the law. If he hadnt, we all would never of known the guy. NOW THAT'S BEING LEFT ALONE!!!!!!!!
Soapweed
Well-known member
leanin' H said:
You are 100 percent right, Leanin' H. However, as they say, "attitude is everthing." When a person having a little authority comes across as a complete jerk, which is very often the case, it is sometimes hard to feel too sorry for them if they get their comeuppance. I think that the game wardens in question had that kind of reputation. Dallas was able to hide out for so long because the wardens had enough enemies that these people were more than willing to help Claude Dallas.
I am in no way defending Claude Dallas. I am defending Ian Tyson's singing ability and most of the songs that he writes. He is such a great singer in my book, that I would feel deprived to not get to listen to him because of not liking one of his songs. Two bits says that if he was a resident of the USA he would vote Republican. :wink:
Dylan Biggs
Well-known member
Soapweed said:Two bits says that if he was a resident of the USA he would vote Republican. :wink:
Soap, as fond as you are of Ian Tyson's music you best not delve to deep into his political leanings. :wink:
Soapweed
Well-known member
Dylan Biggs said:Soapweed said:Two bits says that if he was a resident of the USA he would vote Republican. :wink:
Soap, as fond as you are of Ian Tyson's music you best not delve to deep into his political leanings. :wink:
Thanks for the heads up, Dylan. You do raise a good point. Nonetheless, I still appreciate his cowboy music. :? One thing about his varied views on politics, I would still bet my two bits that he wouldn't have voted for Obama. :wink:
This is an article entitled "Truly Tyson" by Eric Volmers, from the Calgary Herald, October 23, 2010.
http://www.calgaryherald.com/entertainment/Truly+Tyson/3715598/story.html
Here is a brief mention of his political views:
It was during those days in the 1960s, though, that Tyson first became leery about mixing politics and music, rejecting the notion that folk was synonymous with protest. Nevertheless, more than 40 years later, his political views do seep into the book. While many have labelled him a conservative -- at a concert in Ontario last week, lefty singer and Tyson fan Steve Earle reportedly called him an "old, right-wing son of a bench" before launching into a cover of Summer Wages -- the book reveals Tyson's politics aren't that easy to define. He's a staunch environmentalist, who writes passionately about animal welfare, food production and conservation, issues that are generally associated with the political left. He also criticizes American foreign policy, albeit briefly, during a short passage on Vietnam. On the other hand, he stresses in the book that he is not a "tree hugger" and could never jump on the "socialist bandwagon." He criticizes unions and musicians receiving government funding. He also reveals that the right-wing Reform party was "sniffing around" at one point, trying to get him to run for office.
"I was very apolitical when I was a kid," he says. "When I took off to the U.S., I probably didn't even know who the Prime Minister was let alone anything else. But I became very politicized late in life, mostly through my connection with the environment and animal rights. I'm pretty political now. I'm not a conservative, not in the usual use of that term. I'm an outsider, always have been. Some of my views would be considered liberal and some would be considered conservative and some would be considered off the wall."
Northern Rancher
Well-known member
That last sentence could sum up alot of people I think.
A
Anonymous
Guest
I used to be a big Barbara Striesand fan until I found out she was a Clinton supporter. LOL. Seriously though, when the wolf people said, "Oh they'll stay in the park", and then I heard what Ian Tyson said to that group of greenies, I lost all respect for him. I can't in good consience support someone who supports what I percieve to be a misguided agenda or those who are against me. Three or four years ago over around Sturgis someone hit a wolf that when tested, traced right back to the wolves turned loose in Yellowstone. We have had wolves within a few miles of here and I'm on the other side of the state. I guess my point is, a lot of entertainers get into politics and use or abuse the sway they can have over people. After a time some get to thinking, "Well, Ian Tyson is a cowboy and rancher and he likes wolves, maybe we should support the wolf fund too". The reason we get a lot of goofy laws passed is because we get big name people to show their support publicly. Then their fan base jumps on the bandwagon. I used to be a Tyson fan until I heard some of his views. Don't matter anymore though, he lost his voice. Maybe a "Higher Power" didn't agree with him on the wolf issue either.
Soapweed
Well-known member
I hate to admit it but I even kind of like k.d. lang's singing, even though she is a bleeding heart liberal vegetarian with awkward sexual tendencies. She does have about the best female voice to come down the pike since Pasty Cline. Even though I don't smoke and don't condone smoking, k.d. lang's song, "I'm Down to My Last Cigarette," is pretty doggone good music. :roll: :wink:
