Marty ranch

[Big Muddy rancher]

On the thread about cow prices someone mentioned the Marty ranch which I see is for sale.or maybe sold as the cows just sold.

Not picking on Howdy 1 but he posted this and it got me thinking. :roll:

"Yes it was Marty Ranch. These cows did take care of themselves all year long. They were supplied with cake during the winter but no hay. Granted these cows never knew anything less than grass up to their bellies. It was a big ranch and always understocked."

My friend had just posted on another site that"Each day grazing is extended the cow calf sector saves $3.6 million."

Was the Marty ranch understocked or are most ranches over stocked? :?

 

[Faster horses]

On the thread about cow prices someone mentioned the Marty ranch which I see is for sale.or maybe sold as the cows just sold.

Not picking on Howdy 1 but he posted this and it got me thinking. :roll:

"Yes it was Marty Ranch. These cows did take care of themselves all year long. They were supplied with cake during the winter but no hay. Granted these cows never knew anything less than grass up to their bellies. It was a big ranch and always understocked."

My friend had just posted on another site that"Each day grazing is extended the cow calf sector saves $3.6 million."

Was the Marty ranch understocked or are most ranches over stocked? :?

Howdy1 said that. Here is his post:"Yes it was Marty Ranch. These cows did take care of themselves all year long. They were supplied with cake during the winter but no hay. Granted these cows never knew anything less than grass up to their bellies. It was a big ranch and always understocked."

 

[Big Muddy rancher]

On the thread about cow prices someone mentioned the Marty ranch which I see is for sale.or maybe sold as the cows just sold.

Not picking on Howdy 1 but he posted this and it got me thinking. :roll:

"Yes it was Marty Ranch. These cows did take care of themselves all year long. They were supplied with cake during the winter but no hay. Granted these cows never knew anything less than grass up to their bellies. It was a big ranch and always understocked."

My friend had just posted on another site that"Each day grazing is extended the cow calf sector saves $3.6 million."

Was the Marty ranch understocked or are most ranches over stocked? :?

Howdy1 said that. Here is his post:"Yes it was Marty Ranch. These cows did take care of themselves all year long. They were supplied with cake during the winter but no hay. Granted these cows never knew anything less than grass up to their bellies. It was a big ranch and always understocked."

You just reposted what I had posted. :? :lol:

My question for discussion was about "Understocked" ranches

 

[Hereford76]

Maybe it was stocked just right. Wonder if it will be stocked at all now?

 

[DejaVu]

There was a local ranch in this area that was always understocked. They bought cubes to feed through the winter. 20 acres to a cow. 8 is average for this area-if you move them for the winter. Cows were never touched. No vaccinations. No ear tags. Bull was never pulled. No cull cows. They died right there on the place. No calving assistance. Calves were sold as needed and never weaned. Bull calves intact. They managed by "not managing" their cattle. He passed away two years ago and she passed this last August...flat azzed broke. It doesn't matter if you feed hay or don't, it's the day in and day out management that has the most impact. My opinion.

 

[Big Muddy rancher]

There was a local ranch in this area that was always understocked. They bought cubes to feed through the winter. 20 acres to a cow. 8 is average for this area-if you move them for the winter. Cows were never touched. No vaccinations. No ear tags. Bull was never pulled. No cull cows. They died right there on the place. No calving assistance. Calves were sold as needed and never weaned. Bull calves intact. They managed by "not managing" their cattle. He passed away two years ago and she passed this last August...flat azzed broke. It doesn't matter if you feed hay or don't, it's the day in and day out management that has the most impact. My opinion.

But if they had "managed" the cattle by pulling bulls ,castrating timely weaning ect how would thy have done?

 

[Soapweed]

There was a local ranch in this area that was always understocked. They bought cubes to feed through the winter. 20 acres to a cow. 8 is average for this area-if you move them for the winter. Cows were never touched. No vaccinations. No ear tags. Bull was never pulled. No cull cows. They died right there on the place. No calving assistance. Calves were sold as needed and never weaned. Bull calves intact. They managed by "not managing" their cattle. He passed away two years ago and she passed this last August...flat azzed broke. It doesn't matter if you feed hay or don't, it's the day in and day out management that has the most impact. My opinion.

In my younger days, there was a neighboring outfit that ran their operation very similar to what you just described. It was just a man and his wife (they had no kids) and one hired hand. There was approximately 25,000 acres at the time and over 1000 Angus mother cows. It was kind of "survival of the fittest." Calves were not branded, vaccinated, or castrated, but neighbors helped gather for late weaning, and the calves were sold "as is" at that time. For all the assets, the outfit never exactly prospered. The lady had a few milk cows and chickens, and she peddled cream and eggs around town. One time she told my grandmother (who was a customer), "If it wasn't for selling cream and eggs, we wouldn't be able to make it." :roll:

 

[3 M L & C]

The hay we feed in winter is raised on farm ground. The amount one cow eats in a winter can be grown on a half acre. If I need 10 acres of grass for the summer how many would I need if I were to graze the cows all winter on dead non nutriaious grass. Not trying to be a smart mouth I would like to know. We can put up our own feed pretty cheap on cost per day feed wise. The amount more cattle that we have way more than makes up the difference in any extra we might spend in feeding through winter. I think it's good if you can do it. But just because your grazing year round dosnt mean your being the most profitable.

 

[Hereford76]

The hay we feed in winter is raised on farm ground. The amount one cow eats in a winter can be grown on a half acre. If I need 10 acres of grass for the summer how many would I need if I were to graze the cows all winter on dead non nutriaious grass. Not trying to be a smart mouth I would like to know. We can put up our own feed pretty cheap on cost per day feed wise. The amount more cattle that we have way more than makes up the difference in any extra we might spend in feeding through winter. I think it's good if you can do it. But just because your grazing year round dosnt mean your being the most profitable.

the grass in the second picture - the dormant grass can maintain around 12% protein thru winter and it does well fairly dry areas and withstands fairly intense grazing. not arguing with you just saying. that is the same grass we winter cows on here.... im overstocked tho and have to lease summer grass or run 2/3 the cows. i just like the idea of a place that could do it all without turning a wheel.

http://www.mcintyreranch.com/grass_water_and_fencing.php

 

[Justin]

i would say most ranches are overstocked, myself included.

i don't know much else about the Marty ranch other than what i've stated on here but after hearing a little bit about their operation and seeing their entire cow herd….my hat is off to them. if i had the land base to run a similar operation, i'd do it in a heartbeat. good doing cattle and probably lower input cost than most ranches 1/3 their size, that sounds like a good combo to me.

work smarter, not harder.

you ask a good question BMR. of course i'm outside looking in but i would say they were correctly stocked before i would say they were understocked.

 

[Doug Thorson]

Grazing year round would work in a couple ways only. Either you have your place paid for or have a full time job in town where you don't have time to manage your cattle.

My single biggest line item expense is land payments. I am overstocked and will be for at least as long as I am paying for land. If I run at the county average acres per cow my payments and land taxes would cost me $559.21 per cow. That is just what I have to pay to control the land. Being "overstocked" and a "high cost producer" with equipment to put up hay and feed it back I have got my land cost down to $450 or so per cow. It doesn't matter how you slice that one it seems like the only way to go for me.

 

[Justin]

Grazing year round would work in a couple ways only. Either you have your place paid for or have a full time job in town where you don't have time to manage your cattle.

sorry Doug but i would disagree with that statement.

 

[Faster horses]

The hay we feed in winter is raised on farm ground. The amount one cow eats in a winter can be grown on a half acre. If I need 10 acres of grass for the summer how many would I need if I were to graze the cows all winter on dead non nutriaious grass. Not trying to be a smart mouth I would like to know. We can put up our own feed pretty cheap on cost per day feed wise. The amount more cattle that we have way more than makes up the difference in any extra we might spend in feeding through winter. I think it's good if you can do it. But just because your grazing year round dosnt mean your being the most profitable.

the grass in the second picture - the dormant grass can maintain around 12% protein thru winter and it does well fairly dry areas and withstands fairly intense grazing. not arguing with you just saying. that is the same grass we winter cows on here.... im overstocked tho and have to lease summer grass or run 2/3 the cows. i just like the idea of a place that could do it all without turning a wheel.

http://www.mcintyreranch.com/grass_water_and_fencing.php

I tend to respectfully disagree with the 12% figure on dormant winter grass. I'm wondering where that figure came from. We have tested a whole lot of domant/winter grass and it tests about 4-5% and we've even had it test less than that. When grass gets that low in protein it is also hard to digest, therefore the cows can't eat enough to sustain them. That's one reason why cake is fed......to stimulate the rumen in order to digest the grass so the cow can eat more. We were in a situation once where we were grazing all winter; the fella that owned the place passed away, normally it was a grass/cake outifit, but when he passed it tied things up and the cows didn't get any cake. I'm telling you, had a spring storm hit those cows, it wouldn't have been good. Normally, with the cake as supplement they wintered pretty well--and they had lots of protection.

This conversation brings to mind a funny story about an old rancher over by Pompey's Pillar, Mt. A new guy had moved into the area and he had a lot of questions to ask the old rancher. When he got to the carrying capacity, he asked the older guy how many cows that country could run to the section.
The old guy thought a bit, put out his hands, and said, "FOUR! Sometimes FIVE, but mostly FOUR." :lol: :lol:

This old rancher fella had lots of land and not that many cows. A heifer born in a pasture, usually stayed in that pasture til she died or was culled. He had grass everywhere. It was nice to see. Obviously, he didn't have any payments to make.......

 

[Howdy1]

The Marty's were understocked. But they did a fine job of running their place. Lots of land and most of it bought cheap generations ago. Rest was cheap state and fed land. 48,000 acres in their control with 500+ cows and 500+ yearlings. They also took in pasture cattle but not sure how many. If you figure 25 acres to run a cow/calf pair then they should run 1920 cows. I would say they ran probably a few hundred short of comfortable capacity. Which in turn equals no hay fed since '52. So probably ran just right.

 

[Hereford76]

The hay we feed in winter is raised on farm ground. The amount one cow eats in a winter can be grown on a half acre. If I need 10 acres of grass for the summer how many would I need if I were to graze the cows all winter on dead non nutriaious grass. Not trying to be a smart mouth I would like to know. We can put up our own feed pretty cheap on cost per day feed wise. The amount more cattle that we have way more than makes up the difference in any extra we might spend in feeding through winter. I think it's good if you can do it. But just because your grazing year round dosnt mean your being the most profitable.

the grass in the second picture - the dormant grass can maintain around 12% protein thru winter and it does well fairly dry areas and withstands fairly intense grazing. not arguing with you just saying. that is the same grass we winter cows on here.... im overstocked tho and have to lease summer grass or run 2/3 the cows. i just like the idea of a place that could do it all without turning a wheel.

http://www.mcintyreranch.com/grass_water_and_fencing.php

I tend to respectfully disagree with the 12% figure on dormant winter grass. I'm wondering where that figure came from. We have tested a whole lot of domant/winter grass and it tests about 4-5% and we've even had it test less than that. When grass gets that low in protein it is also hard to digest, therefore the cows can't eat enough to sustain them. That's one reason why cake is fed......to stimulate the rumen in order to digest the grass so the cow can eat more. We were in a situation once where we were grazing all winter; the fella that owned the place passed away, normally it was a grass/cake outifit, but when he passed it tied things up and the cows didn't get any cake. I'm telling you, had a spring storm hit those cows, it wouldn't have been good. Normally, with the cake as supplement they wintered pretty well--and they had lots of protection.

This conversation brings to mind a funny story about an old rancher over by Pompey's Pillar, Mt. A new guy had moved into the area and he had a lot of questions to ask the old rancher. When he got to the carrying capacity, he asked the older guy how many cows that country could run to the section.
The old guy thought a bit, put out his hands, and said, "FOUR! Sometimes FIVE, but mostly FOUR." :lol: :lol:

This old rancher fella had lots of land and not that many cows. A heifer born in a pasture, usually stayed in that pasture til she died or was culled. He had grass everywhere. It was nice to see. Obviously, he didn't have any payments to make.......

Ok. We use most all the natives and tames during the growing season as yes they are in that 6% and under during winter. I seeded 2500 acres to perennial rye to winter on and in rest rotation. I've tested the stuff in February and had stuff 11%. Cows stay loose on it all winter with no supplements. It's the same grass in that pic...

 

[Big Muddy rancher]

I find it kind of strange on a ranchers site when you mention grazing year round Bad management seems to be the only thing that comes up. :?

Maybe it takes more management to graze year round. :shock:
I know guys that move cows every few hours with intensive grazing. They run more cows per acre that way.
I use less intensive grazing and some of my place doesn't get grazed but once every three years. But I don't forget about the cows. I have solar pumps to check in the summer and if they need protien supp in the winter they get it.And i vaccinate, castrate wean calves as well as pick up bulls at the end of a 60 day breeding season or sooner. 30 days on hfrs.

Year round grazing doesn't have to be just on native prairie. Swath grazing extends the season as well as grazing standing corn. Big swede extended his grazing with a garden patch variety for his fresh weaned calves.
I saw thousands of acres of corn stubble going to waste this fall up here. many use crop residue to extend the season. As easy as putting a chaff collector to drop small piles of chaff.
I'm sure the ranchers on this site could tell us many more ways to extend the grazing season without neglecting to castrate the bull calves or let cows die on the range.
:?

 

[MO STOCKER]

AMEN BMr. A lot of years we graze year around. We have two sets of heifers we are grazing now and will graze through to new grass. Most years we only feed when the ice or snow prevents adequate consumption. Then we stop moving them and feed till it goes off. Then back to grazing with daily moves.

 

[Hereford76]

I've always wanted to force myself to sit down and do different sort of enterprise budgets (dont know what else to call it) on the place with the variant being all the ground here that could be farmed. Put a pencil to what it would really look like if we farmed all the farmable ground and used the stubble and breaks to winter on and just buy hay vs maybe swath or bale grazing the farmable ground and vs keeping it all in grass. Growing up it always seemed the farming wasn't much more than a wash... In 03 I broke up a crested wheat stand that was seeded in 72 and was hay ground. From 04 to 09 it made over 1 ton of either pea or oat hay and one year I hired my neighbor to combine half the oat crop and those acres netted just over 400/acre. If a guy could do that every year that'd pay for a bit of hay.

Also - meant to say faster horses that I think the way that rye grass holds it protein better is just because it is a bunch grass and when it lays over it protects the bottom stuff kinda like a windrow does. If it greens up in the fall it seems to have the best values dead of winter. Kinda comb thru it and the stuff underneath is green. Makes for rough ground tho.

 

[DejaVu]

I wasn't trying to sound negative. Sorry. I only know this one family as an example of not feeding hay. They were not a good example. In my area, there are no others that I am aware of. Everyone, it seems, brings their cows closer to home for the winter and calving. It's also difficult to find large pastures. There are just a few greater than 640 acres. Most are 320 acres or less. It seems to me that the size of the pasture would be a factor as to whether or not year round grazing would be feasible.

The no-till guys don't want cattle on crop residue. Would be nice if that mind-set would change.

I'm not opposed to year round grazing. I think it's absolutely the right thing.

 

[Faster horses]

Also - meant to say faster horses that I think the way that rye grass holds it protein better is just because it is a bunch grass and when it lays over it protects the bottom stuff kinda like a windrow does. If it greens up in the fall it seems to have the best values dead of winter. Kinda comb thru it and the stuff underneath is green. Makes for rough ground tho.

Thanks for the clarification. I brought it up because of those who read this stuff and don't realize that dormant winter grass doesn't have much in it for protein.