mineral $ per head per year?

[sic 'em reds]

MSU has done numerous studies about mineral and the advantages of
feeding it in Montana. Most of the state is short of copper and zinc.
Some researchers have said that you only need to feed mineral 6 months out of the year. A person can do that, but we've found they eat as much
in 6 months as they do in a year. They (cattle) try to keep their liver stores up and it takes a certain amount of copper, etc. to do this. Letting
cattle have access to minera onlyl part
of the year will deplete their liver stores. So they will overeat it if they haven't had access to it for awhile.

As far as cattle knowing if they need mineral or not, that's just not true.
Other factors enter into mineral consumption. Quality and quantity of
forage is the first rule of mineral.Good forage will cut down on the
amount of mineral cattle eat, and with poor forage they will eat more.
Also, alkali pastures,gumbo ground, sodium in water--
things like these make a difference in consumption. Lots of phos in
pastures in the spring time makes a difference too. Phos is a limiter,
like salt and cattle will not overeat phosphorus.

Ranchers like it when their vet bill is low or non-existant; their
calves weigh more and their breed up is great. That's what you
get when you are on a year-round mineral PROGRAM.

I'm not going to argue with you on this, because I know you know alot more about mineral, but you contradicted yourself about cattle knowing what they need. High quality grass/forage = less consumption. I am not going to open a bag of mineral to let it sit out and get rained or sh*t on. When we go to cornstalks in the fall, I have no problem putting mineral out for them, as long as the eat it. I know plenty of other people that have more issues than we do, and their cattle eat mineral year around.

 

[jodywy]

little hard with grazing on a common alotment wioth other grazers and big pastures to get mineral out during the summer

 

[N.AZRancher]

I'm blown away by some of these responses. I haven't sat down to figure out actual mineral cost last year but my ballpark over the entire herd would be $4/head. I couldn't believe feeding $30+ a head on mineral. On just the cows alone, that is more than what it costs me for all my colored fuel for a year.

Aaron, you have my attention. Please fill us in on what your program is. What type of mineral is it? Who makes it or do you mix it yourself? What minerals and what percentage are in the mix? Who is your supplier? How often do you put it out? Is it out year round? How much does each cow eat a day?

If there is anyway to get my mineral costs down to $4/hd/year, I for one would like to learn about it.

 

[Just Ranchin]

I was talking to a guy last week that decided to quit mineral last summer. 35% open made him decide that wasn't a profitable move.
Dad quit when I came back out on the place, cost cutting to try to make it work with 2 on the place, everything did just fine and we both were thinking mineral was a waste of money until every cow on the place that was 8 or older was wore out. Everyone around us was able to run cows until 10-13 but all ours were done at 8 and some at 7.

We have one group of cows that absolutely will not eat mineral once they hit pasture. Does not matter what you put out for them. This group runs in swampy ground. Once we take them off, they are mineral hungry. We preg checked them before coming off the pasture, we had 4 out of 106 head open. Just goes to show me that if they don't eat it, they don't need it.

Not saying mineral is bad, but it is not the only answer also.

I am thinking it was because the soil was saline, being boggy ground. Any saline soil typically means mineral consumption stops, as most minerals carry some kind of salt, and they are simply getting more than enough from the soil

 

[Justin]

hey H, i said.."don't quote me". :lol: :lol:

 

[Faster horses]

sic' em--I may have worded that wrong. Cattle don't always NOT eat
mineral because they don't need it. It might be because of too high
of salt content in grass or water, too much phos etc. We have a
customer who reads this forum who has told me that when they put their
cattle in one pasture during the summer, they completely quit the mineral while the cows
in the other pastures eat it about right. When they bring these cattle home,
the cows that didn't eat mineral during the summer, HOG it down for
quite awhile. (Trying to get their liver stores up). The other cattle
just stay at about the same consumption as during the summer. I thought
this was very interesting. These folks keep their cattle separate throughout
the year and they pay attention to what they are doing and what the
cattle are eating.

I hope this clears up what I meant.

You are correct in your post, Just Ranchin'. Salt is a limiter.
We have lots of gumbo in our area and cattle don't eat much
mineral on gumbo. We did a soil analysis. We found gumbo soil
contains higher amounts of salt and phosphorus. So we
formulated a mineral that has no salt and hardly any phos.
This way the cattle still get the important trace minerals in
their diet...namely copper and zinc.

Believe it or not, calcium is very importatant to cattle as well.
It's as important to cattle as it is to people. And in forage
it's not as readily available to the cow as was thought several
years ago. In feedlots, they have found increasing calcium
increases the rate of gain.

 

[Aaron]

I'm blown away by some of these responses. I haven't sat down to figure out actual mineral cost last year but my ballpark over the entire herd would be $4/head. I couldn't believe feeding $30+ a head on mineral. On just the cows alone, that is more than what it costs me for all my colored fuel for a year.

Aaron, you have my attention. Please fill us in on what your program is. What type of mineral is it? Who makes it or do you mix it yourself? What minerals and what percentage are in the mix? Who is your supplier? How often do you put it out? Is it out year round? How much does each cow eat a day?

If there is anyway to get my mineral costs down to $4/hd/year, I for one would like to learn about it.

I usually have a tag for it kicking around, but not sure where. If your real keen on the formulation, I'll look for a tag. It's a 1:1 Ca/Phos blend, No salt, all chelated minerals, high level of zinc. Made nearby in Minnesota for this specific region of Ontario, NW Minnesota, SE Manitoba and NE North Dakota, under the name Northern Feeds. It is their Beef Breeding mineral.

My neighbor is a dealer for them and got me onto it. I've had a devil of a time finding the right mineral over the years. It costs around $36-$42 a 55 lb bag, but it did jump up to the $50 mark (for a while) a little over a year ago.

I don't give 365 day access to it. No way. Ever. Too much waste. I become very stingy with it during the winter. As of this point, I probably haven't given any in a couple of weeks(maybe close to 3), but I am due too. Big snowstorms cover mineral and get it wet (even in covered tubs, etc), and the cows don't like it.

The only time I get real crazy on mineral is a month pre-breeding and all through breeding season (35-42 days). During that time, the animals are never without mineral and if they want to eat 20 oz. a head, they are free to do so. I want everything bred within 2 cycles, and 95% of the cows will cycle at least once or twice before they get exposed.

So running late spring and early fall calving herds, the cows only get their full, unending supply of mineral approx. 2 1/2 months of the year. After that period, I put it out every 2 weeks or so, and they must clean it up, or I get real stingy the 2nd time around.

I don't get huge numbers of open cows. Some years I have none, some years one or maybe even two. Mind you I am a savage when it comes to culling cows and if a cow makes it to 10 years here, she should be stuffed and mounted when she keels over because she is worth her weight in gold.

For salt, I use both the Hi-Iodine (EDDI) salt and the Hi-Selenium Salt made by American Stockman. I really am impressed with the quality and price of them. Only a buck or two jump over straight useless blue salt for me. I doubt I spend much over $100 a year on salt.

I always feed salt and mineral separate, never together.

 

[Justin]

Aaron, this may be off topic a bit..but why is 10 year old cow so rare in your herd?

 

[gcreekrch]

Aaron, this may be off topic a bit..but why is 10 year old cow so rare in your herd?

Are you like me and have too many of them? :lol:

 

[Denny]

I'm blown away by some of these responses. I haven't sat down to figure out actual mineral cost last year but my ballpark over the entire herd would be $4/head. I couldn't believe feeding $30+ a head on mineral. On just the cows alone, that is more than what it costs me for all my colored fuel for a year.

Aaron, you have my attention. Please fill us in on what your program is. What type of mineral is it? Who makes it or do you mix it yourself? What minerals and what percentage are in the mix? Who is your supplier? How often do you put it out? Is it out year round? How much does each cow eat a day?

If there is anyway to get my mineral costs down to $4/hd/year, I for one would like to learn about it.

I usually have a tag for it kicking around, but not sure where. If your real keen on the formulation, I'll look for a tag. It's a 1:1 Ca/Phos blend, No salt, all chelated minerals, high level of zinc. Made nearby in Minnesota for this specific region of Ontario, NW Minnesota, SE Manitoba and NE North Dakota, under the name Northern Feeds. It is their Beef Breeding mineral.

My neighbor is a dealer for them and got me onto it. I've had a devil of a time finding the right mineral over the years. It costs around $36-$42 a 55 lb bag, but it did jump up to the $50 mark (for a while) a little over a year ago.

I don't give 365 day access to it. No way. Ever. Too much waste. I become very stingy with it during the winter. As of this point, I probably haven't given any in a couple of weeks(maybe close to 3), but I am due too. Big snowstorms cover mineral and get it wet (even in covered tubs, etc), and the cows don't like it.

The only time I get real crazy on mineral is a month pre-breeding and all through breeding season (35-42 days). During that time, the animals are never without mineral and if they want to eat 20 oz. a head, they are free to do so. I want everything bred within 2 cycles, and 95% of the cows will cycle at least once or twice before they get exposed.

So running late spring and early fall calving herds, the cows only get their full, unending supply of mineral approx. 2 1/2 months of the year. After that period, I put it out every 2 weeks or so, and they must clean it up, or I get real stingy the 2nd time around.

I don't get huge numbers of open cows. Some years I have none, some years one or maybe even two. Mind you I am a savage when it comes to culling cows and if a cow makes it to 10 years here, she should be stuffed and mounted when she keels over because she is worth her weight in gold.

For salt, I use both the Hi-Iodine (EDDI) salt and the Hi-Selenium Salt made by American Stockman. I really am impressed with the quality and price of them. Only a buck or two jump over straight useless blue salt for me. I doubt I spend much over $100 a year on salt.

I always feed salt and mineral separate, never together.

Less than a $100 on salt I could do that of course I'd have to sell off alot of cows. Mineral use in a 30 cow herd is alot different than a 300 cow herd.

 

[Aaron]

Aaron, this may be off topic a bit..but why is 10 year old cow so rare in your herd?

At times they are common, but then they do something (pull a hip, lose a quarter, etc.) to make me work harder for them and I cut the strings. The oldest one currently in the herd is a 'J', so she is going on 12 and might have the best chance of any in beating the old record of 16 years. Of course, that old girl also fetched the lowest cull price we have ever received at 9.50 cwt. I do prefer the culls to have 'some' value when they walk on out of here, instead of with a limp and a bad eye. I can honestly see the day in my lifetime (next 40 years) when there will be strict ethical/humane standards for all cull livestock (ie no mastitis-ridden quarters in cull dairy cows, no bad eyes, no limping, no 'shelly' cows)

Back on topic, I can't stand working for cows. On a whole, they are easier to work with/for than people, but I still don't like it. What some people see as a minor inconvenience, I see as a major pain. On one hand, it's terribly difficult to keep up on building the herd with our own replacements, but on the other hand, I know I have a top notch set of cows that allow me to focus on other things. Life is a lot different/easier around here compared to even 15-20 years ago.

Many people seem to like to brag about the age of their cows. But unless you actually see them, there are a lot that should have been on the kill line years ago. As a Hereford guy, I've seen other guys brag about longevity and put an ad in the magazines with a 10-14 year old cow with an udder and four giant funnels. I would bet 9.5 times out of 10, that cows needs help feeding her calf when she has it. It's during those periods, that I would have to resist the temptation of knocking them both on the head.

I guess it all depends on how much frustration a person can handle. My fuse is short and patience is questionable, so cows need to look after themselves.

 

[Aaron]

Aaron, you have my attention. Please fill us in on what your program is. What type of mineral is it? Who makes it or do you mix it yourself? What minerals and what percentage are in the mix? Who is your supplier? How often do you put it out? Is it out year round? How much does each cow eat a day?

If there is anyway to get my mineral costs down to $4/hd/year, I for one would like to learn about it.

I usually have a tag for it kicking around, but not sure where. If your real keen on the formulation, I'll look for a tag. It's a 1:1 Ca/Phos blend, No salt, all chelated minerals, high level of zinc. Made nearby in Minnesota for this specific region of Ontario, NW Minnesota, SE Manitoba and NE North Dakota, under the name Northern Feeds. It is their Beef Breeding mineral.

My neighbor is a dealer for them and got me onto it. I've had a devil of a time finding the right mineral over the years. It costs around $36-$42 a 55 lb bag, but it did jump up to the $50 mark (for a while) a little over a year ago.

I don't give 365 day access to it. No way. Ever. Too much waste. I become very stingy with it during the winter. As of this point, I probably haven't given any in a couple of weeks(maybe close to 3), but I am due too. Big snowstorms cover mineral and get it wet (even in covered tubs, etc), and the cows don't like it.

The only time I get real crazy on mineral is a month pre-breeding and all through breeding season (35-42 days). During that time, the animals are never without mineral and if they want to eat 20 oz. a head, they are free to do so. I want everything bred within 2 cycles, and 95% of the cows will cycle at least once or twice before they get exposed.

So running late spring and early fall calving herds, the cows only get their full, unending supply of mineral approx. 2 1/2 months of the year. After that period, I put it out every 2 weeks or so, and they must clean it up, or I get real stingy the 2nd time around.

I don't get huge numbers of open cows. Some years I have none, some years one or maybe even two. Mind you I am a savage when it comes to culling cows and if a cow makes it to 10 years here, she should be stuffed and mounted when she keels over because she is worth her weight in gold.

For salt, I use both the Hi-Iodine (EDDI) salt and the Hi-Selenium Salt made by American Stockman. I really am impressed with the quality and price of them. Only a buck or two jump over straight useless blue salt for me. I doubt I spend much over $100 a year on salt.

I always feed salt and mineral separate, never together.

Less than a $100 on salt I could do that of course I'd have to sell off alot of cows. Mineral use in a 30 cow herd is alot different than a 300 cow herd.

Granted, my numbers are on 50 or so cows plus backgrounders/calves/bulls for a total of 120 or so head.

But again, Denny, we are talking on a per head basis, and based on consumption, the numbers shouldn't change all that much, regardless of how many animals there are. I 'could' spend $30 a cow on mineral a year, but why the heck would I want too? So the mineral man can give me a firm handshake and a half-sincere smile for being a good customer?

 

[Ben H]

Not sure about per head, but what I'm using is just over $1000/ton at this time. I'm looking to switch to something with IGR before the flys start.

 

[John SD]

I have found this mineral discussion interesting, as other periodic discussions on the subject that come up here. :wink:

I admit I cheap out and don't feed mineral like I used to. At minimum the cows have trace mineral salt out to them at all times. Also agree with Aaron on the EDDI hi-salt. It packs a little more punch that regular TM salt for not much more $$$. I feed both American Stockman and Champion's Choice depending on where I pick it up. I buy loose salt and feed it in lick barrels, as I do with mineral. The salt will turn into a block but they eventually eat it. I do have some Vigortone mineral on hand and am going to put some out to the cows soon.

I think Aaron is getting the best bang for the buck by feeding mineral at the time of year it counts the most. IMO, cows should have all the mineral they need during the last trimester of pregnancy for the rapidly deveoping calf and to provide good colostrum. I also make sure I feed mineral for at least a month or so after calving. I believe mineral not only minimizes but actually eliminates some problems like retained placentas in cows and scours in young calves.

I might slack off on mineral through the summer and then put it out in the fall when the grass matures and the calves are still nursing the cows. I think along with the fall shots mineral helps the calf stay healthy and develop the immunity we are trying to give them with the shots.

If you're going to skimp feeding mineral any time of year, do it in the fall after you pull the calves off. The cows will do fine. I start thinking about this time of year the cows have used up their stores of Vit A that mineral provides.

 

[Justin]

Aaron, this may be off topic a bit..but why is 10 year old cow so rare in your herd?

Are you like me and have too many of them? :lol:

i got, ah..lets see, um, maybe bout, oh i'd say... hell,lets just say i got a few. :lol: :lol:

 

[jodywy]

seem my winter mix is $585/ton and the calving mix is $985/ton

 

[Northern Rancher]

The easiest way to cut your mineral costs is not to buy it-I don't think you can hold it to $5 a head if you are feeding as per reccommendations. As to it's usefullness and need that's pretty unique to each operation. There are probably 1,500 mother cows wintered within two miles of our yard. All of the places but one have run cattle for two or three generations-the mineral fed ranges from none to tonnes-nobody has had a major disaster yet as far as I know. It would be an interesting trial to crunch the numbers on that many cattle that close together-two outfits calve early the rest of us are in late spring. If a mineral company wants to step up to the plate I have a portable scale under a pearson squeeze and I know how to use it lol.

 

[loomixguy]

I'd be curious to know how many here actually keep records and KNOW how much mineral their cattle are consuming at any given time.

Although it may not seem like it, green grass is right around the corner....time to start thinking about high mag mineral.

Valentine's Day is the day I begin adding chelated liquid mag to the LOOMIX troughs, as some of my customers will jump the gun and haul the cows out to pasture by April 15 so they can concentrate on planting corn.

 

[Justin]

what i used last year for the first time was used Orwig tubs starting at the start of the last trimester all the way through breeding, after that just trace/salt was available to the cows. first calvers had tubs all year long. the calves looked good, IMO. and had the fewest opens i've had in a few years. i put the first tubs out last week, so we'll see what year #2 under this plan shows for results.

the nice thing about Orwig tubs is that they do guarentee consumption control. if the cows go through them to fast, they will replace those tubs. but i've never had them over consume.

 

[Northern Rancher]

Orwigs are the only supp we use also-usually when they are out on stockpiled grass-they are the only one that cattle stop eating as the forage improves. Justin do you use the straight mineral one or the ones that have some protein. You can spot them out in areas now that you won't be able to access when the cows are out there. If the snow goes here we should be done feeding by April 1st there's a pretty good stockpile left. By midMay here if we get any moisture and no hard frosts you can hear the grass grow-18-20 hours of daylight help that quite a bit.