• If you are having problems logging in please use the Contact Us in the lower right hand corner of the forum page for assistance.

Minerals?

Help Support Ranchers.net:

http://www.bovineengineering.com/NL_minerals.html

This is an article on minerals and what each one does.

One needs to determine what they need for their environment and management. What I need here may be totally different from Canada or California or Viginia.
 
John SD said:
Jinglebob said:
We have a type of fescue here also, but I don't think it amounts to much. On this ranch I probably have 20 to 30 different kinds of grasses. Used to cuss some of them, until I found they were real good at certain times of the year.
Click to expand...

I wasn't a 4H kid and don't know my grasses very well. I'll have to get ya to show me some this fescue sometime JB! :wink: :lol:
Click to expand...

I found it in my grass book. I wasn't in 4H either. Did learn about grasses in my first year in AG, in highschool. I've been kind of interested ever since.

There is a book out there called "Plants and Grasses Of SD, I think, that I have.

F Timmons knows quit a bit about all of them also.

As for the fescue. I think it is called 6 Weeks Fescue. I don't think we have a lot, but I haven't checked it for awhile. Come over and we'll study. :wink:
 
John;
Why don't you get the two books on Grasses of South Dakota and the on Plants and Grasses of the Black Hill by Gary Larson and James Johnson. These are both important books for me.

I was never a 4H boy either, what I have learned about grasses and range plants I have learned by myself. I attended Veterans Ag. Classes back in the 1950's where I became interested in identifying range plants and grasses. It became a very interesting hobby. Heck, I think I would even be interested in working with you two fellows.

As far as I know the only fescue that grows in South Dakota is the six weeks fescue, it is practically worthless as it only get about 4 inches tall and dries up about the 1st of june. We called it June Grass. Cattle may graze it a little but it has short roots and they usually get more dirt than grass when they pull it up. Cattle don't even like to graze other grasses were this grass grows.

We have two grasses that we call cheat grass here. Downy Brome and Japanese Brome. I believe these are fall annuals. Downy Brome has a little value for grazing early in the season but it matures so early, then it is worthless.
 
OK, JB and Clarence, now I get it! When you say June Grass I know what your talking about!

I do have some of that up at my other place in your neighborhood JB. Gotta look real quick to catch it green and growing.

Don't think there is any here at home. Maybe June Grass likes the lighter soil better instead of this gumbo????
 
Sandy said:
That "performance" vigortone mineral should be cheap to buy seeing that it's 20% salt.
Click to expand...

Yes, Sandy. That is why I am curious of price on the 3V2S vs 3V4S. FH, where are you??? :wink:

The salt content of 3V4S is 6.00% min - 7.10% max. Phosphorus is slightly less at 6.00%. Calcium is significantly higher. 19.70% min - 23.60% max.

My feed guy who I trust also sells KayDee and Payback. I asked him what mineral was the best bang for the buck and ended up with the 3V4S. I really don't care for the Kaydet texture myself but I have to admit I don't think it makes any difference to the cows. :roll:
 
If you read the bag tags you'll see that LOL is feed at 3 oz and Vigortone is fed at at 4 oz so you have to compare cost per day. Assuming both are equal and that a fairly safe bet.
 
All are way too low in copper for my taste, and the LOL is complete junk, better than nothing, but not by much. That salt is awful expensive.

I see the Co-Op at Plymouth-Jansen, NE, is manufacturing the LOL. Figures. They purchased a Loomix dealership and have pissed it away to the point that I have to service one of their customers, who just happens to be my cousin. 300 mile RT's don't pay for crap, but he's family.
 
loomixguy
I see the Co-Op at Plymouth-Jansen, NE, is manufacturing the LOL. Figures. They purchased a Loomix dealership and have p****d it away to the point that I have to service one of their customers, who just happens to be my cousin. 300 mile RT's don't pay for crap, but he's family.
Click to expand...

If you know anything about them you would know that the only reason they have that on the place it to tie up the market so they can promote their own line of liquid stuff.

John SD
Yes, Sandy. That is why I am curious of price on the 3V2S vs 3V4S.
Click to expand...

I am not a very good source of price as I don't use that much per year and the feller I get mine from is a local that just keeps enough around for a 6-8 or so of us that buy from him. I am guessing that the price would be much better if I was buying pallets of it. One thing to keep in mind is that I don't use hardly any other salt with the 3v2 s line. I used to get a VT mineral that was a 32 instead of a 32s that had salt in it and I had to put in a block of salt with the 32 and the cost was like 1-2.00 higher for the 32 + a block than the 32 s was.

The LOL mineral is such poor stuff that I dumped a bag in the feeder and they wouldn't eat it and wouldn't eat it so I finally dug it out and stored it in a bucket for a while and put in the barn for a while. Seems to me that I ended up mixing in a little now an then just to get rid of it. Would hate to waste anything.... :roll: You can take shots at any one of the three I listed but don't forget that is the only 3 listed on here to be fair more labels should be listed from other MFG. I can't even think of a lot of other choices around here anymore other than Kent or maybe something from some farm store.
 
Any time you are dealing with a co-op when it comes to feed, you are getting shafted. Golden Feeds in Osborne, KS is making junk mineral as well. Their customers are all driven by the price/ton, and cows do not eat the stuff hardly at all. They figure more bottom line for them. hahahahaha
 
I don't like it.
I would rather see the Calcium, Phosphorus closer to a 1 to 1 ratio.
 
Local guy here sells his private label custom blend mineral advertised for about 30 cents a bag higher than this pallet of Vigortone was. Labels are quite comparable. Maybe in pallet quantities this private label product would cost about the same.

The private label mineral is lighter than Vigortone. Or at least there is more quantity of mineral in a 50 lb bag. I never weighed the bags, maybe Vigortone is cheating? :roll: :wink: :lol:

Texture isn't quite as consistent on the private label mineral. The particles are fine but there is some that seems to be dust in it. IMO, Vigortone has the best and most appealing appearance, texture, and smell.

FWIW, Dad always fed Watkins mineral since I was a kid and wouldn't consider anything else. I think if they still make the stuff any Watkins dealer should be able to get it. IMO, Vigortone shows the same consistency in product as the Watkins did. Probably a good bet that Vigortone might have made the Watkins mineral.
 
Alabama, I don't know about in your area, but in this part of the country
you do NOT want 1:1 cal to phos ratio. 2:1. 3:1 and even 4:1 is
what is recommended. Never, ever feed mineral that is higher in Phos
than calcium.

Some companies here still sell 15-12. That mineral is so outdated,
those compaines should be ashamed of themselves. Instead of
educating the producer, they choose to sell the same-oh same-oh
just because someone will buy it. John Patterson
from MSU did seminars on mineral many years ago and he told us
then that you should never feed mineral that is higher in PHOS than
CAL. And he also said when the copper to zinc ratio is wrong,
real damage can be done. You would be better off not feeding
any mineral at all if the copper to zinc ratio is not correct.

Mineral is an exact science. Not something that 'back yard'
feed dealers should be mixing up. A local guy here was buying his
mineral from a local feed store that mixed their own mineral.
I looked at the label and zinc was marked out. I asked him why
the zinc was marked out and he said, "well, he said he was out
of zinc, so this mineral doesn't have any zinc in it."

WOW...that is scary!!!!

Believe me, not all mineral is created equal.

As for particle size, Vigortone has done extensive research to
determine the correct particle size that is best utilized by the cow.
There is a REASON for the particle size, it didn't just happen.

Loomix guy, ATTA BOY. I gotta agree with you on your statement.
Feed companies put their research into feed, mineral is only a sideline
with them. Their main interest and focus is to sell FEED, not mineral.

Stretch, I appreciate what you are saying. Mineral that sets up
in the tub is a WASTE of money. Usually the mineral that does this
contains grain by-products. The grain by-products are there
to keep the cost low. But it does nothing for the mineral requirements
of the cow.

Vigortone is recommended to be fed at 3-4 oz per head per day.
Now I'm sure most of you understand that cattle eat mineral in
peaks and valleys. Don't get discouraged if they eat a lot at one time
of the year and not much another time. Remember this:
Quality and quantity of forage dictates mineral consumption.
That will help you understand WHY they eat less at some times
more than at others.

Salt? Vigortone can buy salt cheaper than you can. This subject used
to come up, but those on a year-round Vigortone program don't even
question it anymore. We had information about this and I wish I could remember what it was, but I can't.

Kaydee mineral looks good on the tag, but it isn't a high quality
mineral. It is more of a 'price mineral', definitely not a 'performance
mineral.' There is some good mineral out there, Kaydee is not one.

Remember, with your mineral program, KEEP IT SIMPLE.
We have taken grass samples all over Montana and we still use
basically 2 or 3 types of mineral all over the state, BASED ON
GRASS SAMPLES in all areas. Very seldom do we find a ranch
that needs a special blend. There are a few areas, however. I
think the country by Lusk, Wyoming is a very different area
for mineral and requires a special blend.

Sorry I missed this thread for so long, but now it is back to the top.

Hope this helps!! Please continue with comments or questions.
 
My rep came out last week... Was a bit surprised to see him but he was in the area showing the new Rep for my area (A sub rep perhaps?) some of the larger clients.. I kind of blushed not knowing that I was a larger client but that is okay.. I enjoyed the visit, something the other mineral folks never did for me, they left that up to the elevators who sell the stuff.. Now I get calls from both of them.. Pointed out a couple of my concerns with the mineral I was feeding and asked a couple questions and he was real great.. My mineral is a customn blend this time of year anyways because of additives for our cocci and e. coli problems...

I am a bit concerned that some of my cattle looked a bit rougher than usual at the end of winter and I subscribe this too a bit too much by products although it is no different than what we fed in the past.. He told me he would take it up with Doc so and so as my younger black animals have a little bit of brown on the withers, could be a number of things but I had to ask about it.... That being said we will be cutting down on by products next year unless they get a lot cheaper, will still feed the 5V0 but just less distillers.. I don't need the phosphor in the other minerals...
 
IL Rancher said:
My rep came out last week... Was a bit surprised to see him but he was in the area showing the new Rep for my area (A sub rep perhaps?) some of the larger clients.. I kind of blushed not knowing that I was a larger client but that is okay.. I enjoyed the visit, something the other mineral folks never did for me, they left that up to the elevators who sell the stuff.. Now I get calls from both of them.. Pointed out a couple of my concerns with the mineral I was feeding and asked a couple questions and he was real great.. My mineral is a customn blend this time of year anyways because of additives for our cocci and e. coli problems...

I am a bit concerned that some of my cattle looked a bit rougher than usual at the end of winter and I subscribe this too a bit too much by products although it is no different than what we fed in the past.. He told me he would take it up with Doc so and so as my younger black animals have a little bit of brown on the withers, could be a number of things but I had to ask about it.... That being said we will be cutting down on by products next year unless they get a lot cheaper, will still feed the 5V0 but just less distillers.. I don't need the phosphor in the other minerals...
Click to expand...

Brown on the withers...I think that could be a copper deal,

PPRM
 
Yep.. It has plenty of copper but when you feed a lot of distillers the sulpher can bind with the copper to a point that you have a deficancy.... Happens.. Seems to only be a problem on my three year olds... 4 year olds, yearlings, 5-10 year olds, no problems... Strange how it works sometimes.. With the 3 year old blacks I have never seen them not have brown on the withers but the 3 year old reds look a bit rougher than i would like, I imagine it is the old raising a calf, growing a calf, and growing syndrome that they are I still trying to work themselves out off..
 
As recomended by alabama extension.

Minerals for Beef Cattle in Alabama
The first point that needs to be made is that trace mineral salt is not a complete mineral, it contains no calcium or phosphorus. When evaluating the composition tag on a bag of minerals look for the following: 15 to 30% salt, 6 to 12% calcium, 6 to 12% phosphorus, 1 to 4% magnesium (8-14% for hi-mag in the spring), .09 to .18% copper, .18 to .36% zinc and .0026 to .0052% selenium. If concentrations of these minerals are considerably outside of these ranges, look for another. Consumption levels should be between 2 and 4 ounces per day. There will be extreme differences in prices, make sure that you consider composition and daily intake when evaluating these price differences - the least expensive bag is not necessarily the best buy! Some minerals will contain only 1% phosphorus, this is not enough unless the cows are fed broiler litter or the pastures are constantly fertilized with litter, which contains abundant amounts of phosphorus and other minerals.

Other points to ponder:

1. If the cows routinely run out of mineral then consumption levels will not be in the 2 to 4 ounce range - it is important to have mineral available at all times.

2. If abundant quantities of litter are being fed then mineral consumption will nearly cease.

3. If you feed a "hot mix" during the winter (e.g., cottonseed meal and salt) then special care will need to be taken to ensure adequate trace mineral, calcium and phosphorus consumption is achieved.

4. A good homemade recipe that will work is to mix a 50-pound sack of trace mineral salt with a 50-pound sack of dicalcium phosphate and feed this free-choice.

5. High-Mag mineral does not need to be fed all year, the most critical time is during the spring.
 
Big Muddy rancher said:
Haven't they banned chicken litter being fed to cows? YET :!:
Click to expand...

No it is not banned and it is still used in Alabama for feed and also for fertelizer. Chicken litter is the best grass growing fertelizer I have ever used. That stuff will grow grass on a rock.
 
I have enjoyed this thread a lot because I readily admit I'm no pro on mineral. I did compare my Moorman label with those posted and it seems to compare favorably with the comments made. I do, however, have a question. Corn distillers dried grains with solubles.....aren't these grain by products? The Vigortone labels both include the distillers grains.
 

Latest posts

Top