Mob grazing

[lazy ace]

I didn't post this too start a fight... I just thought it was interesting. I have talked to Gabe several times about cover crops and find it interesting and very cool. I will also say Gabe might get the same amount of moisture as other people but his rains always seems to come at the right time. He is pretty lucky in that point.

have a good one

 

[per]

It's an excellent topic LA. The principals of many of these techniques are sound and can be used in some sort of modified version when some critical thought is used discerning them.

 

[andybob]

For those interested in getting first hand information, here is the website,
there are newsletters available, and information updates on Facebook.
http://www.holisticmanagement.org/

 

[burnt]

I'm not sure that what I do here would fall under the title "mob grazing" but it must be close.

Our pasture got way ahead of the cows we have left this summer and if they were to be turned out into it free choice, about half of it would get "wasted" by trampling.

So what I do is move the electric wire ahead a step or two up to 3 times a day. I use the step-in type electric fence posts. Tumblewheels would nice nice but they're pricey.

I know, I know, not everyone has time to do this but I rather enjoy doing it so it's not work at all.

The benefits are numerous. Less waste - about 75 - 80% utilization of even more mature pasture; cattle as quiet as could be; calves that don't mind a person walking fairly close, to name a few.

When I gave them a bigger patch of new pasture before I started this practice, they would eat about half of the grass and stand and bawl to be moved into the paddock.

What I need to do this week is install a follow up fence behind them to stop them from going back on the grazed pasture and taking that "second bite" of regrowth. A magazine article said "don't let them have the 'second bite' on fresh regrowth before a certain stage of growth".

 

[Denny]

i might be misunderstanding the concept of mob grazing.
but i still think 300 cows on a THIRD of an acre is stretching a rope.

and 300 cows on a third of an acre might be a FORM or considered a form of confinement.

if there is that much profit in mob grazing,i have 1000 acres in southern iowa
for rent with anyone who has 300,000 head and some hot-wire.

most of it tillable and grass waist high.
imo,i would rather drive across across the ranch and see 300 pairs grazing than drive by one acre with 300 cows.

Yessir, there is a colossal misunderstanding going on here. 1000 acres would absolutely not hold 300,000 head. Where would those cattle be moved to next? The third of an acre thing only lasts for a few hours. That third of an acre will then be rested for anywhere for a few months up to a year.

You don't even increase your stocking rate to begin with....just your stocking density.

As I mentioned earlier, I couldn't care less if other people mob graze or not. I have, however, personally witnessed the results of mob grazing, and I truly believe that there is nothing else like it. I also mentioned earlier that most people would rather do something else than be graziers. Denny, it seems like you would rather farm and weld than mess with electric fence. That suits me to a T. I just have never been able to understand why so many are so quick to discredit any idea that they very little knowledge of.

One more little thing, and Denny, this is not meant as a dig at you, but if increasing your stocking rate by 200% (getting another ranch for free) isn't profitable enough to make you take notice......................I guess we see things differently.

Ok, I'll be quiet now and go back to my grazing!

Well for number one the only farming I do is for winter forage. Corn silage 80 acres and I have 25 acres of oats which is a cover crop on some new seeding.Of which I will bale for hay. Otherwise everything else is hay and pasture. 2nd the only reason I build trailers now is to help pay land payments on land I am buying vs.renting for life. 3rd I live between 12 and 20 miles from my pastures and last I checked fuel was near $3 a gallon I can't justify driveing around for 4 hours everyday rotateing cows on 6 different pastures not to mention the infrastructure of a watering system.I did'nt say it would'nt work I just said I would'nt do it in my situation.We have serious winter here we have to feed for 5 to 6 months here. I could stockpile but our fall rains take it and turn it into straw been there done that won't do it again. I won't go to grass before May 15th it's more a wolf deal than a grass deal. I've got enough that I could put some very young pairs out early but it's also on my worst pasture for predator's. Then a couple weeks later I'd have to catch them and load and haul again.Something I hate doing more than anything.I have written leases and they read May 15th to october 15th 20th and Nov 1st.

Number one is I don't want to invest thousand's of dollars on infrastructure on rented ground just to in the end have the land owner double the rent or rent it to someone else. Imagine increaseing the stocking rate on one pasture by double. Knowing the land owner he'd take a headcount and the next year the rent would double. Not takeing in the amount of money spent on fenceing and watering systems not to mention the worn out pickup and fuel running 35 miles round trip to do it.

Further more where's the time going to come from. If I wanted to spend every wakeing minute tending to cow's I'd fill my barn full of milk cow's.

 

[LazyWP]

My question is.... has anyone put a pencil to it. Does having someone there to move the cows 3 or 4 times a day, plus the extra fencing material, plus the water handling actually pay off? I am a true believer in rotational grazing, and in the last 10 years have sort of developed my form of "mob" grazing, sorta. IF we are having moisture, and IF the conditions are "right", I will graze the pasture I go into first each year down to nothing. In my case that means that every 4 or 5 years the pasture is grubbed out, and we are seeing drastic improvements to our carrying capacity, but I also have to pay close attention to what the weather is doing. This year I am not taking it down near as short. We just haven't had the timely rains, and to much wind.

 

[Denny]

It would have to pay $120 a day in labor alone to justify leaveing my welding shop to do it.And thats just for 3 hours per day. I am the only employee my shop has as I am the only employee my ranch has. I pride myself in very little paid labor. Our worker's comp is so high I'm better off doing nothing than hireing help.

I have all my pastures set up to rotate just more like one week per area.Leaveing an area ungrazed here tend's to bring on the weeds also.Biggest thing is leave some forage behind come november but drought can change that on a guy.

 

[JD6320]

My question is.... has anyone put a pencil to it. Does having someone there to move the cows 3 or 4 times a day, plus the extra fencing material, plus the water handling actually pay off? I am a true believer in rotational grazing, and in the last 10 years have sort of developed my form of "mob" grazing, sorta. IF we are having moisture, and IF the conditions are "right", I will graze the pasture I go into first each year down to nothing. In my case that means that every 4 or 5 years the pasture is grubbed out, and we are seeing drastic improvements to our carrying capacity, but I also have to pay close attention to what the weather is doing. This year I am not taking it down near as short. We just haven't had the timely rains, and to much wind.

Lazywp
they dont mention what his adg per day is for this group 2-2.5 lbs would not be to hard to average yielding 650-800 lbs day per acre

Tom

 

[Angus 62]

Saw a mob grazing demonstration last year on wet meadows near O'Neill NE. Pretty impressive including the watering system that was continuous flow that moved along with the mob. The guy who owned the ranch said that the amount of grass he could potentially grow wasn't known but hadn't come close to it's potential.

A lot of people wonder how they could possibly bring kids into an operation. When you think of the potential it may be a way for some. It certainly would be tough if you were spread out. The guy who's ranch gave the demonstration grazed his meadows in the summer and wintered in the uplands which is just opposite of most who hay their meadows. He felt by doing so he raised more forage on both and kept more moisture on the uplands.

 

[Clarencen]

I don't know. Three hundred cows on 1/3 acre. I haven't figured it out on paper, but wouldn't that only give each cow about as much space as a small box stall? How many days a year does she have to live in these crowded conditions?

 

[JD6320]

I don't know. Three hundred cows on 1/3 acre. I haven't figured it out on paper, but wouldn't that only give each cow about as much space as a small box stall? How many days a year does she have to live in these crowded conditions?

Clarencen
The animals are given access to new area every couple hours, there is generally a back fence giving plenty of lounging space -look at it as a moveable feed bunk going across a field
Tom

 

[Andy]

That is almost 150 sq feet per pair. Confinment barns only have 35-45 sq feet per head.

 

[Northern Rancher]

If anybody sets up a portable corral on grass to brand you can sure see what the dynamics of herd effect can have on a patch of ground-you can see the branding pen circle of increased grass for a couple years. I have a friend Neil Dennis that has turned himself into a mob grazing guru-he even got p[aid to go to the states and talk about it much to his amazement lol. It does work but it is the upper limit as far as management.

 

[andybob]

Some good links on this subject;
http://www.sustainableranching.co.za/
http://www.meattradenewsdaily.co.uk/news/260509/south_africa___grass_fed_cattle_a_whole_new_ball_game_from_feed_lots.aspx

 

[movin' on]

If anybody sets up a portable corral on grass to brand you can sure see what the dynamics of herd effect can have on a patch of ground-you can see the branding pen circle of increased grass for a couple years. I have a friend Neil Dennis that has turned himself into a mob grazing guru-he even got p[aid to go to the states and talk about it much to his amazement lol. It does work but it is the upper limit as far as management.

Neil Dennis is a fantastic mob grazer. Ask him about his brix readings someday. He is pushing the envelope as hard as anybody, and is getting results second to none. The stuff that is happening on his place is truly amazing.

Good eyes on the portable corral, too! I noticed years ago that catch pens often have fantastic stands of grass in quantity, quality and variety. I couldn't figure out why or how to duplicate it for a while, but I'm catching on now.........

 

[Northern Rancher]

Neil is a fun guy and a good stockman!!!

 

[Angus 62]

Neil was one of the speakers at the demonstration in NE. He had made a number of gizmos to make fencing easier including a step-in corner post for mob grazing.

 

[Soapweed]

This morning I moved a "mob" :wink: of cattle out of a 1030 acre pasture. This bunch of 133 cow/calf pairs and 5 bulls were put in this pasture on the 1st day of July. Today is the 19 day of July, and the pasture is pretty well shot. Doing the math, that is roughly 7 and 1/2 acres per pair for 18 days, or 12 and 1/2 acres to run one pair for one month. This particular type of ground would consequently take 150 acres to run a cow unit for a year. This ground does exist on the South Dakota side of the state line, so I don't want it to tarnish the good reputation of Cherry County and the Nebraska Sandhills. :wink:

The Badlands of South Dakota are famous for its beauty and as a tourist attraction. I proudly :roll: own some of the Worselands of South Dakota, but they are not famous for anything other than a drain on my pocketbook. They do help the map of our ranch look better. :?

Anyway, I firmly believe there is a time and a place to mob graze, but I also don't think it would be worth doing in our South Dakota Worselands.

 

[Big Swede]

You may be right Soapweed, the Sandhills are very fragile and best grazed during the winter when the ground is frozen and not so prone to erosion. This topic is like most others on here though, if you don't think you can do it you are right. I like rotational grazing but personally, I wouldn't like to do it as intensively as some do. That's not to say I couldn't do it if I wanted to.

 

[Silver]

If anybody sets up a portable corral on grass to brand you can sure see what the dynamics of herd effect can have on a patch of ground-you can see the branding pen circle of increased grass for a couple years. I have a friend Neil Dennis that has turned himself into a mob grazing guru-he even got p[aid to go to the states and talk about it much to his amazement lol. It does work but it is the upper limit as far as management.

When we've done this I haven't seen that effect. Probably due to our blue gumbo, the ground gets so compacted it won't grow much for a long time afterward, usually needs to be disced up to be productive again. This is what leads me to worry about trying such a thing here. As it is our fields can get overly compacted just by grazing them in the fall.