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More maountain lion stories

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Liberty Belle

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On another thread something Big Muddy said reminded me that I haven't had time to share my latest mountain lions stories with you. While I'm waiting for the crew to come to dinner when they finish PGing the cows, I'll post this for you from my last week's column:

One of the farriers at the horse shoeing clinic that one of our sons attended last week had an exciting story to tell. The farrier and his family raise horses in Washington State and they had been losing mares and foals to mountain lions at an alarming rate. After repeated calls to the game and fish the guy went in to their office and pleaded with them to come out and do something! One of the guys finally agreed to come out and ride with the farrier to assess the situation.

The two men mounted up and headed out through the trees to look over the latest kill when they had a sudden change of plans. As the wildlife guy rode underneath an overhanging branch, a mountain lion dropped out of the tree right on top of him and his horse!! Between the two men, they managed to run the lion off but not before it had gouged deep grooves in the horse and left what is probably permanent damage to the game warden's nerves.

As soon as the warden recovered his ability to speak, he said he didn't care what it took; he was going to get the cougars cleaned out of the area. They called in helicopters, had marksmen on horseback, in pickups and on four-wheelers. And killed 47 mountain lions in the area in ONE DAY!

Meade County Deputy Sheriff John Rhoden had another exciting story about his boss' encounter with a mountain lion while bow and arrow hunting for elk in the Black Hills. The sheriff had been hunting the hills all morning and stopped to rest beneath a tree. He was relaxing on the ground when he felt like he was being watched. He turned to see a full grown mountain lion staring straight at him just a few feet away! This is not far from the place where Deputy Rhoden's son had shot one of the three mountain lions that were stalking him with an arrow a couple weeks before.

The sheriff was too scared to shoot. Said he just "locked up!" and couldn't move at all, much less shoot an arrow at it. Have you seen a house cat stare down a bird or mouse till they become mesmerized? That's the way he felt and his heart was pounding so hard it like to busted out of his chest! After what seemed an eternity, the sheriff decided he had to do something, so he threw his elk call in the cat's general direction. No reaction...

Finally the sheriff thought that if he just stood up, maybe the cougar would realize he was a man and run off. As he was getting to his feet, and without taking his eyes off the cougar, he scooped up a handful of dirt. After seeing no reaction from the cat when he stood up the sheriff flung the handful of dirt right at the cat's eyes... and it never even blinked. That long tail was the only movement. It twitched slowly back and forth like any cat's tail will before it pounces. They stared at each other for what seemed like an eternity before the mountain lion turned and walked away. By the time Sheriff Merwin made it to his pickup, he could hardly hold on to the steering wheel, he was shaking so hard.

John is wondering how long it will be before someone around here gets eaten.
 
"This is not far from the place where Deputy Rhoden's son had shot one of the three mountain lions that were stalking him with an arrow a couple weeks before. "

Sorry to make a joke, LB, but I wonder if the lion would have been more successful if it had a bow to go along with its' arrow, instead of the arrow?
:p


Seriously, though, I had a friend that was stalked just a few miles South of Bozeman up Hyalite Canyon a number of years back.

One year, near the Bob Marshall Wilderness, we backtracked after a morning of hunting and found mountain lion tracks in out footsteps for a couple miles.


47 mountain lions seems a stretch, though. I think we would have heard about that one on a national level. Maybe not.


Badlands
 
I thought it sounded like a lot of cats too, but the guy swore by his story. All I know is that we have way more lions around here than we need. I don't think mountain lions should have been listed as a game animal. We should be able to shoot them for the predators they are, the same as coyotes and fox.
 
We've had some close calls with hunters over the years, just west of our house. The first time it was a young fellow eating his lunch, heard a noise and figured it was his dad coming to meet him as planned. Turned out to be a cougar intent on sharing his lunch, or making him the lunch. The second was another young guy who figured he would rattle in a buck with antlers, but found it brought him a cougar instead. Our hunters don't rattle antlers anymore!
 
Badlands: "This is not far from the place where Deputy Rhoden's son had shot one of the three mountain lions that were stalking him with an arrow a couple weeks before. "
This is what I get for writing my column in the middle of the night and sending it off without editing first!!! :oops:

Doesn't this remind you of when Paul Harvey talks about someone getting shot in the fracas? :shock:

First time I heard that I was dumb enough to wonder where on the human body a fracas was located. :???:

I wish I could tell you that this was the worst mistake I've ever made, but that would be an outright lie. :liar:

Edited version: "This is not far from the place where Deputy Rhoden's son had shot an arrow into one of the three mountain lions that were stalking him a couple weeks before. "
 
Liberty Belle said:
I just noticed the unique way I spelled mountain lion on the thread. :roll:

Oh well, some days I do a little better...


I sure cann't critisize anyones spelling but I was wondering if that meant it was a Chinese MAO untain lion :)
 
So you go hunting in the wilderness and see a wild animal-this is news? We don't clutter up our papers with stuff like that -we save it for more important stuff like hockey scores. I think if a cat was serious about eating you-you'd be ate.
 
LB the 47 mt lions is more than stretch ,a pure story!!! Mt Lion reasearch ever done will tell you in one area unless of major perportions in size, it is not going to happen. The dynamics of a lion population and home range and territory will tell you a pure falsehood. If you don't believe it call a MT Lion Biologist. What size was this area again? 47 lions in one day??????

California has one of the largest populations of lions of any state period read the following and tell me 47 in one day sounds realistic?

Over half of California is prime mountain lion country. SNL/CA and the surrounding areas are within the geographic range occupied by mountain lions. The home range of an individual mountain lion can span over 100 square miles for males and 20 to 60 square miles for females. The density of mountain lions in California has been estimated to range from less than three per 100 square miles in the deserts to 10 lions per 100 square miles along the west slope of the Sierra and in northwestern areas of the state.


The SNL/CA site has been in operation for more than 50 years.
The population of mountain lions in the state has increased over the last 30 years. In 1970, the population was estimated at 2000. Today, DFG estimates the lion population at between 5,000 and 6,000. Recent evidence suggests that lions are expanding their range into new areas. Although some people believe that lions are being forced out of the former home ranges by human occupation, the biological explanation for this expansion is that the more isolated habitat is already full of lions.
 
Here's another lion story, comes from the Montana part of the world.............

Hubby's been working on a huge shop over by Nutrioso, AZ, the past couple of weeks, and the owner got a call from his dad in MT, while Hubby was there on Friday. When they got finished talking, the guy told Hubby that his dad said one of their friends had gotten a nice 7 point bull elk, and left it there till the next morning. When they got back to get it, a back quarter was gone. It was some kinda "varmint" that was the culprit.

When they got to looking around, they found tracks from 3 different lions. They had made off with the meat. He guessed they were lucky that they still had 3/4 of it to take home! :shock:

47 lions would be a heck of a bunch I wouldn't want to be around, that's for sure! :shock:
 
Liberty Belle:

Don't worry, I do that too.

I only caught it because I've been proof-reading 135 pages of PhD dissertation.
:roll:


Otherwise, I wouldn't even have noticed.

Badlands
 
LB the 47 mt lions is more than stretch ,a pure story!!! Mt Lion reasearch ever done will tell you in one area unless of major perportions in size, it is not going to happen. The dynamics of a lion population and home range and territory will tell you a pure falsehood. If you don't believe it call a MT Lion Biologist. What size was this area again? 47 lions in one day??????
Happy, your reading skills evidently aren't much better than my writing skills. Go back and read through the story again.

The story the other farrier told my son took place in Washington State, not Montana, so I don't think talking to a lion biologist in MT would enlighten either of us.

If I had heard this story even a year ago I wouldn't have placed any credence in it at all, but after hearing a plethora of verifiable mountain lion stories over the past few months I find it a whole lot easier to believe.

Up until a friend of mine hit a full grown female mountain lion with her car on the way home from our local high school the GF&P claimed that the only cougars we have in our area are just young males passing through that have been crowded out of the Black Hills by larger males. We knew their story wasn't true, but had no way to verify it either way.

After hearing all these cougar encounters reported from our neighbors, not a wild tale spinner in the bunch, we evidently know a whole lot more about the mountain lion population than the wildlife biologists do, or at least will admit to.
 
Lb I made no mention of MT the state MT short for mountain, I made mention of CA as they have some of the highest densitys of mt lions studied. WA state has MT lions but to the numbers you speak of that in 1 day of hunting that 47 where killed???? Do you have any facts at all to back this claim or is this just pure specualtion and coffee talk?

There are no hard rules and yes any cross section of age or sex of species can migrate to new areas, but the % is what many in the field of biology work with and I'm betting as many studys in many states show just as yours, that the migration tends to take place with younger cats as they get territorial and the young move on first and the most of almost any species. Rank and file of habitat and age class. Does that mean absolute? No but % as wildlife isn't routine by any means.

After hearing all these cougar encounters reported from our neighbors, not a wild tale spinner in the bunch, we evidently know a whole lot more about the mountain lion population than the wildlife biologists do, or at least will admit to.


LB I would say the opposite is true if you have no facts to back up a claim of 47 lions killed in (1) 12-14 hour day of day light in a state of heavy forest and knowing the habits and home ranges of these large cats. Until it can be backed by facts, is it not nothing but a story?
 
Happy, READ the story. Does it sound like she has evidence of 47 mountain lions being in that area? Of course she doesn't. She even states that she heard about it.
 
Fulton I read the story and to write on a public forum such without having facts to back it doesn't make sense to me. When you post of something and try and state it to be true, then not to have facts to base it on takes away any creditabilty of the situation does it not?

I could tell a story of a 120 point whitetail being shot in SE,Iowa because I heard it from a friend of a friend but with no facts whats the sense in it? Besides to stir the pot and have people call me out on it?
 
David Patrick, it appears more like he has an ax to grind, doesn't it? I'm guessing our Happy Go Lucky works for game, fish and parks or USFWS and can't stand anyone holding those intrusive and overbearing government entities accountable for their actions.
 
LB I would say the opposite is true if you have no facts to back up a claim of 47 lions killed in (1) 12-14 hour day of day light in a state of heavy forest and knowing the habits and home ranges of these large cats. Until it can be backed by facts, is it not nothing but a story?

Fulton I read the story and to write on a public forum such without having facts to back it doesn't make sense to me. When you post of something and try and state it to be true, then not to have facts to base it on takes away any creditabilty of the situation does it not?

I could tell a story of a 120 point whitetail being shot in SE,Iowa because I heard it from a friend of a friend but with no facts whats the sense in it? Besides to stir the pot and have people call me out on it?
Happy, I reported this as a story told to my son at a horse shoeing clinic in Montana, which is exactly what it was. I have no way of knowing if the guy was telling the truth or not, but since he obviously was worked up about it when he told the group an involved and detailed narration of the attack on the wildlife guy and the following hunt, I thought my readers would like to hear about it.

Where did I say that I knew that it was true? I have no way of checking the veracity of his story and you can't prove he was lying. Where does that leave us?
 
20 years ago they didn't have the problems with the lions like today, but today thier numbers have increased so much. DO NOT UNDER ESTIMATE THE LIONS And THEIR NUMBERS. You won't see them in the day, they only travel and hunt at night.
 
Where did I say that I knew that it was true?


If I had heard this story even a year ago I wouldn't have placed any credence in it at all, but after hearing a plethora of verifiable mountain lion stories over the past few months I find it a whole lot easier to believe. [/b]we evidently know a whole lot more about the mountain lion population than the wildlife biologists do, or at least will admit to.

I have no way of checking the veracity of his story and you can't prove he was lying. Where does that leave us?

You could call the WA state Game dept. It leaves us with yet another tale of wildlife roaming about the countryside to gain perportion with each passing town and state!

Ranchero:Forty seven lions is very easily possible in an over populated area

Please define scope of this area and over population. Are we talking 1,800 acres,600 acres,40,000 acres?

DO NOT UNDER ESTIMATE THE LIONS And THEIR NUMBERS. You won't see them in the day, they only travel and hunt at night.

I don't under estimate any wild animal that has the ability to adapt, carrying capacity, territory,prey base, and home range all come into play for all species. 1 mt lion can eat 1 deer per week average, they do "thrill kill" so lets say in this" undefined area" we have 47-56 deer per week being killed how long do you suppose the deer will remain in this area? How long before half or more will have to move on to find a better prey base? What kind of interactions would these lions have with one another? How many feral Tom cats can one have on there place with out some being killed off or run ragged? The only hunt and travel at night is not 100% either. There have been many sightings of cats durring day light hours, I'm sure in areas of more pressure this could be more true.

Does it seem possible that a handful of men and a helicopter can go out in 1 day, knowing home range of cats by many being GPS collared in many states and being able to track there every move, to assert the notion that 47 of these cats are living in harmonious bliss with one another day after day and having a viable food source that isn't run out of the country?
From CA Mt Lion site:
Densities range from less than three lions per 100 square miles in the deserts of southeastern counties to seven to 10 lions per 100 square miles along the west slope of the Sierra and in northwestern areas of the state. These densities rank relatively high compared to those reported in other western states. We documented cases where densities increased on deer winter ranges as lions followed migrating deer, joining resident lions on winter ranges.

During the course of intensive studies in Orange and San Diego counties, we learned the sizes of individual lion home ranges, mortality factors, number of kittens in litters, dispersal patterns of young lions, typical prey species and how mountain lions react to habitat changes. Lions proved to be highly adaptable. This information was gathered through intensive monitoring of individual lions for 24-hour periods, pinpointing their location and activities every 15 minutes. Such detailed studies are difficult and very costly to conduct
.

Mt lions fight with other lions for food and territory. They include high kitten mortality - thought to be linked to competition among adult lions for food - and lions killing other lions, with adult males usually the aggressors. In several studies, we documented serious injuries to lions caused by fighting, as well as young lions being killed and eaten by adults. These interactions suggest a high level of competition among lions and that the habitat is near capacity.

The DFG's long-term field studies during the 1980s documented high mortality rates among kittens and young lions. The most common number of kittens in a litter at birth was three. In general, only two survived the first year, and only one was recruited into the adult breeding population at two years of age.

The bottom line is I would never try to say a story has merit unless it can be backed by facts and not sworn upon second or third or 10th hand.
 

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