More on scours in late spring calves

[Juan]

Here is something I have learned from bitter experience.
If your cattle are on fast growing spring(or sometimes fall) forage most ranchers know there is a danger of grass tetany.Especialy if there is no mature grass with it.My theory is that younger cows(many times) may
get enough magnesium to maintain themselves but do not pass enough through in their milk to keep the calf healthy.It seems to manifest its self about the time the calf starts to eat grass.At first they will have a watery green diarrhea leading to dehydration.Many times electrolytes will bring them out of it but if they don't get the magnesium they can go down and eventualy die.
To avoid this we start a mag.,di-cal,salt,molasses mix a couple of wks. befor calving untill the calves are about 2 months old.

 

[Angus Breeder]

Juan, We have had great luck treating those calves with 1 cc of Naxcel and 5 cc of Gentocin. When we find the calf we just squirt the mixture down their throat, and move on. In the perfect world we would do this 3 days in a row but usually on day 2 you can't catch the calf.

 

[Mike]

You guys have waaaaaaaaaaaaay too much problems with calves up there.

Only time I see a calf get sick it's because he's bottle fed. Once they get up off the ground and suck.........it's over for us til weaning. Except for accidents of course.

 

[smalltime]

In my expereince, the worst scour problems came in a drought. I have never used scour guard. I treat with electrolytes and antibiotic, and it worked well for me. Dehydration is the biggest killer.

 

[Jinglebob]

Mike, I'll bet the reason your cattle stay healthy is because there is basicly no change in diet for the mothers year around. Up here we go from no grass to too much grass in a very short time.

Go to feeding lots of fat and/or protein and the cows produce richer milk and the calves get scours. Milk scours. Which can kill thru' dehydration.

But not the kind that kill on impact. We had that one year and it was a nightmare. Brought in by dairy calves from the east. It wasn't the death loss so much as the dead gut on the survivers, that cost us the most. The calves that had it sure didn't grow out like the ones who didn't have it. The calves were basicly born with it.

The same spring, the neighbors had the kind that hit about 2 weeks of age. Neither one of us want to live thru that again.

Another neighbor was giving Scourgaurd 3KC and found out that all he need was the C. Cheapened up his shots and did the same job. I think it's clostridium?

Ask Tumbleweed about it. He was giving the shot at birth and was told by the vet that it wouldn't do any good, but he quit losing them big calves, just before branding, when he started giving it at birth.

I think if your cattle have a good immune system and good feed, they can handle a lot!

 

[Faster horses]

IMMUNE SYSTEM.

Wise words, Jinglebob. And the way to a good immune system is to balance what is missing in their diets. In Montana, we know that to be copper and zinc. All the feed in the world will not create a good immune system if copper and zinc is lacking. It must be supplemented.

I'm tellin' ya, we had the worse problems a person could have and we have NO SICK calves anymore. These cattle are not babied, they do not have pristine conditions, they are out in the weather, which is usually pretty tough at times. We have not doctored a calf for scours for years. What did we change? We added a good source of mineral fed free-choice all year long.

 

[Juan]

IMMUNE SYSTEM.

Wise words, Jinglebob. And the way to a good immune system is to balance what is missing in their diets. In Montana, we know that to be copper and zinc. All the feed in the world will not create a good immune system if copper and zinc is lacking. It must be supplemented.

I'm tellin' ya, we had the worse problems a person could have and we have NO SICK calves anymore. These cattle are not babied, they do not have pristine conditions, they are out in the weather, which is usually pretty tough at times. We have not doctored a calf for scours for years. What did we change? We added a good source of mineral fed free-choice all year long.

FH.....A mineral that is made for year-round use will not do the job here when the new grass is coming fast..You need the cows to consume at least .o4 lbs. of 60% magnesium oxide per day.

 

[Mike]

I concur with FH on the minerals and immunities. NO SICK CALVES, most cows catch on the first heat cycle, no calving problems, it just don't get better than this.

P.S. It didn't ALWAYS work this well either. I used to put out blocks. No more.

 

[John SD]

JB, I don't know about you and TW but around these parts the overeating bug is pretty strong. I and most of my neighbors give the calves a shot of 7-way (or CD toxoid) at birth, or give it to the cows and first calf heifers. I've never given the 3KC shot but I do believe the C part is the clostridial overeating. I give another 7-way shot at branding and another at fall shot time.

When I had sheep I gave the ewes a shot of CD before lambing and gave the lambs a shot at docking time. Sometimes I still had problems. My neighbor with sheep halfway between us only vaccinates the ewes before lambing and lets it go at that. Because he doesn't seem to have any further problems, that leads me to believe the overeating bug is strong down here than in your part of the country.

 

[Jinglebob]

JB, I don't know about you and TW but around these parts the overeating bug is pretty strong. I and most of my neighbors give the calves a shot of 7-way (or CD toxoid) at birth, or give it to the cows and first calf heifers. I've never given the 3KC shot but I do believe the C part is the clostridial overeating. I give another 7-way shot at branding and another at fall shot time.

When I had sheep I gave the ewes a shot of CD before lambing and gave the lambs a shot at docking time. Sometimes I still had problems. My neighbor with sheep halfway between us only vaccinates the ewes before lambing and lets it go at that. Because he doesn't seem to have any further problems, that leads me to believe the overeating bug is strong down here than in your part of the country.

I think your right and it probably has something to do with the minerals in the grass or something.

The feller I was talking about who went to just giving the C, is the son in law of the people who used to own the store next to our church. And he calves on them alkali gumbo flats. Bound to have something to do with it.

 

[Angus Breeder]

you are protected from over eating disease by the cross protection C and E in your black leg vaccine. The (C) in Scour Guard SK3 is a vaccine against Corona virus. The (R) is a vaccine against the rona virus. These vaccines are only supposed to work if the cow is vaccinated and/or boostered while she is making colostrum a month prior to calving. I still wander what the latest you can give that shot is and still be protected?

 

[Faster horses]

I had an interesting talk with a very knowledgable vet on the subject of overeating.

Just so you know, we don't have a problem with overeating in our herd. The only vaccine our calves get in the spring, at branding time, is Vision 7. We give nothing else because the immune system of the calf takes care of many problems. We do feed a mineral that contains CTC. Start it a couple of weeks prior to calving and feed it til we turn the bulls out.

Anyway, this vet said something very interesting. We have added so much performance to these cattle and the only way they can perform to those levels is to have a good APPETITE. Overeating is caused partly from a good appetite.

Most of the folks around here have eliminated over-eating by being on a good year-round mineral program. There are a few that do give 7-way at birth.

I hate overeating. It is so fustrating. I know, because it used to be part of our sickness problems, so we experienced it first hand at one point.

 

[John SD]

JB, here at my home place the alkalai is pretty strong in surface water (what's that?) and well water. I know cattle don't eat near the salt here at home as they do at my other place in your country. My thinking is that the alkalai is salty enough to keep cattle from consuming salt/mineral that is fed to them in the proper amounts, or possibly interferes with absorbtion of minerals also.