NCBA agrees.....

[mrj]

From the www.beefusa.org website Capitol Concerns page:

The Senate Agriculture committee hosted a hearing March 9 to review USDA's Management of the P&S Act. On January 18, 2006, the USDA's OIG released the results of an audit report on GIPSA's mamanagement and oversight of the Act and concluded that significant improvements in management, planning and policy formulation were needed.

NCBA agrees with the recommendations suggested by the OIG report and has been actively communicating cattlemen concerns to new GIPSA administrator James Link.


I believe any of you can access that site. At any rate, I didn't have to use my member number to access it.

MRJ

 

[ocm]

NCBA agrees with the recommendations suggested by the OIG report and has been actively communicating cattlemen concerns to new GIPSA administrator James Link.
MRJ

Maybe this is why Link is refusing to look at the Pickett data.

 

[Econ101]

So the NCBA has nothing to say about the OIG report than this? Were they instrumental in having the USDA not hold JoAnn Waterfield accountable? Was that one of their capital concerns for cattlemen? Do cattlemen want to just ask GIPSA to nicely do its job and not demand competency?

Come on, MRJ, you can do better than that.

Get out your cheerleading outfit and try again.

 

[mrj]

So the NCBA has nothing to say about the OIG report than this? Were they instrumental in having the USDA not hold JoAnn Waterfield accountable? Was that one of their capital concerns for cattlemen? Do cattlemen want to just ask GIPSA to nicely do its job and not demand competency?

Come on, MRJ, you can do better than that.

Get out your cheerleading outfit and try again.

Though you will refuse to believe this and continue your disgusting personal attacks on me, I have never been of the 'mindless cheerleader' type. I have, and will continue to my dying breath, to stand up and counter, with FACTS and TRUTH, the misleading 'information' and fallacious attacks on NCBA and/or the Beef Checkoff and the leadership and members thereof.

Econ, why do you refuse to believe that there are good people who know this industry very well in the membership and leadership positions of NCBA?

Those people obviously want factual results from the investigations, and are encouraging the legally placed officials to assure that happens. I have not seen you even admit that the CURRENT administrator, Mr. Link, and even Sec. Johanns, have not been involved in this fiasco for much time. Give them a chance.

You, obviously, are operating from a position of: GUILTY, and don't bother trying to prove anyone INNOCENT, either!

That simply is not the way justice is supposed to be achieved in our country!

If you have even a small fraction of the experience, connections, and knowledge to claim to have, surely you understand that some bureaucrats can and all too often are not the most competent administrators there are.

Until you come up with some proof, why should anyone believe your various schemes you attribute to everyone involved in processing cattle into beef?

MRJ

 

[Econ101]

MRJ: Econ, why do you refuse to believe that there are good people who know this industry very well in the membership and leadership positions of NCBA?

I have no problem with that assertion, MRJ. There are often chokepoints in organizations that can be the problem. JoAnn Waterfield was one of those chokepoints. She failed miserably in carrying out her mandate. Johanns has the responsibility of GIPSA. He should work feverishly in correcting the problems that JoAnn created. When it happens, I will be the first to applaud him. He had oversight responsibility of what JoAnn was doing, as did others in the USDA. The system failed. Accountability is necessary, not excuses and not a lot of time wasted while the abuses continue.

I have problems with people who see no problems and do nothing to correct them. My analogies are not personal attacks, they are there to show you how we must all take our roles of responsibility instead of allowing crimes or frauds to continue based on alliegences and trust that has obviously been broken. We must all speak out against them when we see them instead of blindly following an allowing them to continue.

How much time is needed to correct the problems? The reported decision of the USDA to not investigate JoAnn and why she lied to Congress and mismanaged her position to the detriment of producers and the market shows me that the USDA is just rolling over. JoAnn got in trouble for not allowing her agency to investigate, so it should be with the USDA and Johann's oversight of GIPSA.

 

[mrj]

MRJ: Econ, why do you refuse to believe that there are good people who know this industry very well in the membership and leadership positions of NCBA?

I have no problem with that assertion, MRJ. There are often chokepoints in organizations that can be the problem. JoAnn Waterfield was one of those chokepoints. She failed miserably in carrying out her mandate. Johanns has the responsibility of GIPSA. He should work feverishly in correcting the problems that JoAnn created. When it happens, I will be the first to applaud him. He had oversight responsibility of what JoAnn was doing, as did others in the USDA. The system failed. Accountability is necessary, not excuses and not a lot of time wasted while the abuses continue.

I have problems with people who see no problems and do nothing to correct them. My analogies are not personal attacks, they are there to show you how we must all take our roles of responsibility instead of allowing crimes or frauds to continue based on alliegences and trust that has obviously been broken. We must all speak out against them when we see them instead of blindly following an allowing them to continue.

How much time is needed to correct the problems? The reported decision of the USDA to not investigate JoAnn and why she lied to Congress and mismanaged her position to the detriment of producers and the market shows me that the USDA is just rolling over. JoAnn got in trouble for not allowing her agency to investigate, so it should be with the USDA and Johann's oversight of GIPSA.

Econ, if you really "have no problem with that assertion", you would not continually make claims to the contrary.

How do you know that Johanns and others are not "working feverishly in correcting the problems that JoANN created"?

Who do you know that "see no problems" in this situation? Are you saying it is impossible that there ARE people working to uncover the answers? If your analogies are not personal attacks, then why do you craft them to look like personal attacks?

Your arrogance, even ignora, in claiming you are trying to show me "how we must all take our roles or responsibility instead of allowing crimes or frauds to continue based on allegiences and trust" is boundless! I have never "blindly followed" anyone. I am not a good "follower"! If you had a clue about me, you would know that I challenge most anything that looks suspicious, and some that doesn't!

Other than make claims and accusations on this site, what have you, personally done about the "frauds and crimes" you believe have been committed by packers?

Do you really believe anyone could know how long it will take to sort through this whole debacle? Do you know if the supposed 1800 complaints are still on file? Do you believe it will bring justice about faster to go directly to those complaints, or to publicly request anyone who had previously filed complaints to file them again and proceed from there? Or would it be better to spend time grilling Ms. Waterfield and anyone who has ever spoken to her to convict her of her crimes, so to speak? That seems counterproductive to me. Starting there would serve no one well who is interested in getting to the bottom of the alleged abuses.

MRJ

 

[Mike]

MRJ. Not to change the subject here, but do you have any idea how many NCBA employees have gone on to work for the USDA? Just Wondering. Thanks.

 

[Econ101]

MRJ: Econ, why do you refuse to believe that there are good people who know this industry very well in the membership and leadership positions of NCBA?

I have no problem with that assertion, MRJ. There are often chokepoints in organizations that can be the problem. JoAnn Waterfield was one of those chokepoints. She failed miserably in carrying out her mandate. Johanns has the responsibility of GIPSA. He should work feverishly in correcting the problems that JoAnn created. When it happens, I will be the first to applaud him. He had oversight responsibility of what JoAnn was doing, as did others in the USDA. The system failed. Accountability is necessary, not excuses and not a lot of time wasted while the abuses continue.

I have problems with people who see no problems and do nothing to correct them. My analogies are not personal attacks, they are there to show you how we must all take our roles of responsibility instead of allowing crimes or frauds to continue based on alliegences and trust that has obviously been broken. We must all speak out against them when we see them instead of blindly following an allowing them to continue.

How much time is needed to correct the problems? The reported decision of the USDA to not investigate JoAnn and why she lied to Congress and mismanaged her position to the detriment of producers and the market shows me that the USDA is just rolling over. JoAnn got in trouble for not allowing her agency to investigate, so it should be with the USDA and Johann's oversight of GIPSA.

Econ, if you really "have no problem with that assertion", you would not continually make claims to the contrary.

How do you know that Johanns and others are not "working feverishly in correcting the problems that JoANN created"?

Who do you know that "see no problems" in this situation? Are you saying it is impossible that there ARE people working to uncover the answers? If your analogies are not personal attacks, then why do you craft them to look like personal attacks?

Your arrogance, even ignora, in claiming you are trying to show me "how we must all take our roles or responsibility instead of allowing crimes or frauds to continue based on allegiences and trust" is boundless! I have never "blindly followed" anyone. I am not a good "follower"! If you had a clue about me, you would know that I challenge most anything that looks suspicious, and some that doesn't!

Other than make claims and accusations on this site, what have you, personally done about the "frauds and crimes" you believe have been committed by packers?

Do you really believe anyone could know how long it will take to sort through this whole debacle? Do you know if the supposed 1800 complaints are still on file? Do you believe it will bring justice about faster to go directly to those complaints, or to publicly request anyone who had previously filed complaints to file them again and proceed from there? Or would it be better to spend time grilling Ms. Waterfield and anyone who has ever spoken to her to convict her of her crimes, so to speak? That seems counterproductive to me. Starting there would serve no one well who is interested in getting to the bottom of the alleged abuses.

MRJ

The USDA/govt. has enough manpower to do all of the things you mentioned if they wanted. They are not even the same people, so it is not like the work spreads them thin. Many of the complaints were and are time sensitive. It makes the "rapid response team" JoAnn testified about to Congress even more ludicrous.

If you have an agency that has produced as poor results as what JoAnn has done, it is not going to be a quick turn around, I grant you. I haven't seen a great deal of effort yet, just some letters by James Link saying he is going to "work on it". I wish him all the luck in the world. He has been handed a job that is just too big for him to handle right now because the agency has been cultured for inaction and incompetence.

 

[Sandhusker]

MRJ, "Or would it be better to spend time grilling Ms. Waterfield and anyone who has ever spoken to her to convict her of her crimes, so to speak? That seems counterproductive to me. Starting there would serve no one well who is interested in getting to the bottom of the alleged abuses."

Grilling Waterfield is key to getting to the bottom of the whole mess. I can't believe the magnitude of the problems is simply the result of mismanagement. She was doing what she did for a reason. That reason needs to be rooted out. Waterfield is just the tip above the surface, the bulk of the iceberg is below.

 

[mrj]

MRJ. Not to change the subject here, but do you have any idea how many NCBA employees have gone on to work for the USDA? Just Wondering. Thanks.

Mike, I believe this subject has been rehashed a couple of times on this website..... so do you believe that a person who works for an organization for a period of time should be expected to have any particular loyalty to that organization, other than to be honest about the group? I don't!

Do you believe that any of those people who chose greener pastures, better jobs, locations better suited to their families, or any of dozens of other possible reasons for going to work for USDA are with USDA to do any particular bidding of NCBA? I don't!

Or, can you agree that whatever reasons they may have had for leaving one job for another has no bearing on anything other than their personal reasons for such a decision? If you do not, what is your basis, other than some "hunch", or belief that "it could be true",? And do you have supporting evidence for such a 'hunch' or belief?

Yes, I am aware that NCBA lost some wonderful people to USDA.......and other outfits that could offer better salaries or locations favorable to spouse job or other family considerations. So what?

MRJ

 

[Mike]

MRJ. Not to change the subject here, but do you have any idea how many NCBA employees have gone on to work for the USDA? Just Wondering. Thanks.

Mike, I believe this subject has been rehashed a couple of times on this website..... so do you believe that a person who works for an organization for a period of time should be expected to have any particular loyalty to that organization, other than to be honest about the group? I don't!

Do you believe that any of those people who chose greener pastures, better jobs, locations better suited to their families, or any of dozens of other possible reasons for going to work for USDA are with USDA to do any particular bidding of NCBA? I don't!

Or, can you agree that whatever reasons they may have had for leaving one job for another has no bearing on anything other than their personal reasons for such a decision? If you do not, what is your basis, other than some "hunch", or belief that "it could be true",? And do you have supporting evidence for such a 'hunch' or belief?

Yes, I am aware that NCBA lost some wonderful people to USDA.......and other outfits that could offer better salaries or locations favorable to spouse job or other family considerations. So what?

MRJ

MRJ, I am astounded by your rudeness and generally barbaric answer to a politely asked question. Are you drinking again? Read my question again and you will find that I even thanked you in advance for your answer.

Do you know? Or are you trying to cover something up?

 

[mrj]

Sandhusker, so grill away! Why not hire someone to torture the lady? But, what if she truly is that inept and incompetent? As I said before, time wasted, most likely. May be better to get hold of the complaints and put new people, or the same people under the new management on a fast track.

However, the fact that you "cant believe....is simply the result of her mismanagement" just does not make it true. It could be, or it might not be. Because you want so much for it to be a huge scandal does not automatically make it true, you know!

Econ, are you personally acquainted with James Link? Have you talked to him? How can you know that "this is just too big for him to handle"? Do you have first-hand knowledge of ALL the work and details in that agency, or are you making assumptiont that fit your desired outcomes?

I want the facts brought out on all of this. I do not like innuendo, claims with no supporting facts, or allegations of mis-conduct, or statements like we hear our aution market owners make that (paraphrasing, but close) "we know the packers haven't lost any money and they are just stealing from you" as some sort of "proof" of packer "fraud and deceit" against cattle producers.

I'm confident enough in the honesty of NCBA leaders that I have no fears what so ever that they could be involved in the unlikely event there is any scandal or collusion between any of the entities some of you are so prone to link together as all being "guilty until proven innocent" here.

We absolutely do need a thorough investigation, then whatever the results, we will deal with it and hopefully go forward to make this changing industry serve all who are willing to tailor our cattle operations to thrive in the changing world. We are not going to be able to "go back" to some utopian time in the past and be successful isolationists, IMO.

MRJ

 

[Econ101]

MRJ. Not to change the subject here, but do you have any idea how many NCBA employees have gone on to work for the USDA? Just Wondering. Thanks.

Mike, I believe this subject has been rehashed a couple of times on this website..... so do you believe that a person who works for an organization for a period of time should be expected to have any particular loyalty to that organization, other than to be honest about the group? I don't!

Do you believe that any of those people who chose greener pastures, better jobs, locations better suited to their families, or any of dozens of other possible reasons for going to work for USDA are with USDA to do any particular bidding of NCBA? I don't!

Or, can you agree that whatever reasons they may have had for leaving one job for another has no bearing on anything other than their personal reasons for such a decision? If you do not, what is your basis, other than some "hunch", or belief that "it could be true",? And do you have supporting evidence for such a 'hunch' or belief?

Yes, I am aware that NCBA lost some wonderful people to USDA.......and other outfits that could offer better salaries or locations favorable to spouse job or other family considerations. So what?

MRJ

MRJ, are you cheerleading for the revolving door that is part of the problem at the USDA?

 

[mrj]

MRJ. Not to change the subject here, but do you have any idea how many NCBA employees have gone on to work for the USDA? Just Wondering. Thanks.

Mike, I believe this subject has been rehashed a couple of times on this website..... so do you believe that a person who works for an organization for a period of time should be expected to have any particular loyalty to that organization, other than to be honest about the group? I don't!

Do you believe that any of those people who chose greener pastures, better jobs, locations better suited to their families, or any of dozens of other possible reasons for going to work for USDA are with USDA to do any particular bidding of NCBA? I don't!

Or, can you agree that whatever reasons they may have had for leaving one job for another has no bearing on anything other than their personal reasons for such a decision? If you do not, what is your basis, other than some "hunch", or belief that "it could be true",? And do you have supporting evidence for such a 'hunch' or belief?

Yes, I am aware that NCBA lost some wonderful people to USDA.......and other outfits that could offer better salaries or locations favorable to spouse job or other family considerations. So what?

MRJ

MRJ, I am astounded by your rudeness and generally barbaric answer to a politely asked question. Are you drinking again? Read my question again and you will find that I even thanked you in advance for your answer.

Do you know? Or are you trying to cover something up?

Sorry you see it that way, Mike. Maybe you suffered a bit because some on this site have been equally rude to me on this subject. I believe I am being direct, not rude. Most of those questions and accusations have been made about former NCBA employees in posts in the past when the question has come up. I just thought I would save people the trouble of posting their accusations again, and bring it all out in the open.

As I said, yes I do know several people who have worked for NCBA who, I'm told, later went to work for USDA. Some went directly from one to the other, and I believe, some worked elsewhere between NCBA and going to USDA. I do not know the details, nor how many, nor if they are still with USDA. Those whom I knew are good people and it is disgusting to see them maligned because of their past employment with NCBA. The fantasies some people will engage in to promote their belief that there HAS to be skullduggery involving USDA, Packers, and NCBA is beyone belief and truly disgusting. That they smear good people in the process is apparently the least of their concerns.

For the record. No, I'm not covering up anything. And I would not do so for anyone if I knew of illegal activity.

MRJ

 

[Econ101]

Mike, I believe this subject has been rehashed a couple of times on this website..... so do you believe that a person who works for an organization for a period of time should be expected to have any particular loyalty to that organization, other than to be honest about the group? I don't!

Do you believe that any of those people who chose greener pastures, better jobs, locations better suited to their families, or any of dozens of other possible reasons for going to work for USDA are with USDA to do any particular bidding of NCBA? I don't!

Or, can you agree that whatever reasons they may have had for leaving one job for another has no bearing on anything other than their personal reasons for such a decision? If you do not, what is your basis, other than some "hunch", or belief that "it could be true",? And do you have supporting evidence for such a 'hunch' or belief?

Yes, I am aware that NCBA lost some wonderful people to USDA.......and other outfits that could offer better salaries or locations favorable to spouse job or other family considerations. So what?

MRJ

MRJ, I am astounded by your rudeness and generally barbaric answer to a politely asked question. Are you drinking again? Read my question again and you will find that I even thanked you in advance for your answer.

Do you know? Or are you trying to cover something up?

Sorry you see it that way, Mike. Maybe you suffered a bit because some on this site have been equally rude to me on this subject. I believe I am being direct, not rude. Most of those questions and accusations have been made about former NCBA employees in posts in the past when the question has come up. I just thought I would save people the trouble of posting their accusations again, and bring it all out in the open.

As I said, yes I do know several people who have worked for NCBA who, I'm told, later went to work for USDA. Some went directly from one to the other, and I believe, some worked elsewhere between NCBA and going to USDA. I do not know the details, nor how many, nor if they are still with USDA. Those whom I knew are good people and it is disgusting to see them maligned because of their past employment with NCBA. The fantasies some people will engage in to promote their belief that there HAS to be skullduggery involving USDA, Packers, and NCBA is beyone belief and truly disgusting. That they smear good people in the process is apparently the least of their concerns.

For the record. No, I'm not covering up anything. And I would not do so for anyone if I knew of illegal activity.

MRJ

You are right, MRJ, there are a lot of good people who work at the USDA, the NCBA, and GIPSA. They are the ones who should be running these organizations, not people like JoAnn. If they don't question JoAnn with threat of jail time, I don't think they will be able to separate the wheat from the chaff over there, or show that they want to. You seem not want there to be a separation, that is why I have directed my comments at you. Your way of handling things will cause a disaster for producers instead of solving the problem and bringing the credibility and effectiveness back to these organizations. There is a reason that rcalf is getting bigger. They are addressing cattleman's concerns. You are not.

 

[mrj]

MRJ. Not to change the subject here, but do you have any idea how many NCBA employees have gone on to work for the USDA? Just Wondering. Thanks.

Mike, I believe this subject has been rehashed a couple of times on this website..... so do you believe that a person who works for an organization for a period of time should be expected to have any particular loyalty to that organization, other than to be honest about the group? I don't!

Do you believe that any of those people who chose greener pastures, better jobs, locations better suited to their families, or any of dozens of other possible reasons for going to work for USDA are with USDA to do any particular bidding of NCBA? I don't!

Or, can you agree that whatever reasons they may have had for leaving one job for another has no bearing on anything other than their personal reasons for such a decision? If you do not, what is your basis, other than some "hunch", or belief that "it could be true",? And do you have supporting evidence for such a 'hunch' or belief?

Yes, I am aware that NCBA lost some wonderful people to USDA.......and other outfits that could offer better salaries or locations favorable to spouse job or other family considerations. So what?

MRJ

MRJ, are you cheerleading for the revolving door that is part of the problem at the USDA?

What revolving door? What are you talking about? The only employee that has left USDA that I know of is the infamous lady too incompetent to manage GIPSA investigations. Which others are you meaning? How was I "cheerleading"? Or is that what you mean when I say some people are good people?

MRJ

 

[mrj]

MRJ, I am astounded by your rudeness and generally barbaric answer to a politely asked question. Are you drinking again? Read my question again and you will find that I even thanked you in advance for your answer.

Do you know? Or are you trying to cover something up?

Sorry you see it that way, Mike. Maybe you suffered a bit because some on this site have been equally rude to me on this subject. I believe I am being direct, not rude. Most of those questions and accusations have been made about former NCBA employees in posts in the past when the question has come up. I just thought I would save people the trouble of posting their accusations again, and bring it all out in the open.

As I said, yes I do know several people who have worked for NCBA who, I'm told, later went to work for USDA. Some went directly from one to the other, and I believe, some worked elsewhere between NCBA and going to USDA. I do not know the details, nor how many, nor if they are still with USDA. Those whom I knew are good people and it is disgusting to see them maligned because of their past employment with NCBA. The fantasies some people will engage in to promote their belief that there HAS to be skullduggery involving USDA, Packers, and NCBA is beyone belief and truly disgusting. That they smear good people in the process is apparently the least of their concerns.

For the record. No, I'm not covering up anything. And I would not do so for anyone if I knew of illegal activity.

MRJ

You are right, MRJ, there are a lot of good people who work at the USDA, the NCBA, and GIPSA. They are the ones who should be running these organizations, not people like JoAnn. If they don't question JoAnn with threat of jail time, I don't think they will be able to separate the wheat from the chaff over there, or show that they want to. You seem not want there to be a separation, that is why I have directed my comments at you. Your way of handling things will cause a disaster for producers instead of solving the problem and bringing the credibility and effectiveness back to these organizations. There is a reason that rcalf is getting bigger. They are addressing cattleman's concerns. You are not.

OK, Econ, what is your game? That is the first time you have said anything good about USDA or NCBA, I do believe.

If people are not in the positions of such responsibility, how can they run the organization? Apparently JoAnn had that responsibility and did not live up to it. She was replaced. Now, lets encourage the replacement to do the job right. I don't think that includes publicly doubting that he will or can.

What do you mean by "separation"? Haven't I made it clear I want USDA to function properly and according to law?

You cannot possibly know anything about my "way of handling things"regarding GIPSA, except that I want the rules and the laws followed. So why do you believe that would "cause a disaster for producers instead of solving the problem...."?

Actually, R-CALF has had auction market leaders telling producers for years that packers are out to get them, that NCBA is working against them, and that USDA is helping the packers rob them. Too many people seem to like to believe the worst of those segments of the cattle/beef industry they know little about. R-CALF just tells them what they want to hear, and they cheer and hand over their money. That is much easier than to hear the realities of life regarding changes in this industry and to face the fact that we can be proactive and make change work for our own good. R-CALF is misleading them. NCBA is not. ANd some choose to hate NCBA for that. I'm sorry for those who will be hurt by their failure to face facts.

MRJ

 

[Econ101]

Sorry you see it that way, Mike. Maybe you suffered a bit because some on this site have been equally rude to me on this subject. I believe I am being direct, not rude. Most of those questions and accusations have been made about former NCBA employees in posts in the past when the question has come up. I just thought I would save people the trouble of posting their accusations again, and bring it all out in the open.

As I said, yes I do know several people who have worked for NCBA who, I'm told, later went to work for USDA. Some went directly from one to the other, and I believe, some worked elsewhere between NCBA and going to USDA. I do not know the details, nor how many, nor if they are still with USDA. Those whom I knew are good people and it is disgusting to see them maligned because of their past employment with NCBA. The fantasies some people will engage in to promote their belief that there HAS to be skullduggery involving USDA, Packers, and NCBA is beyone belief and truly disgusting. That they smear good people in the process is apparently the least of their concerns.

For the record. No, I'm not covering up anything. And I would not do so for anyone if I knew of illegal activity.

MRJ

You are right, MRJ, there are a lot of good people who work at the USDA, the NCBA, and GIPSA. They are the ones who should be running these organizations, not people like JoAnn. If they don't question JoAnn with threat of jail time, I don't think they will be able to separate the wheat from the chaff over there, or show that they want to. You seem not want there to be a separation, that is why I have directed my comments at you. Your way of handling things will cause a disaster for producers instead of solving the problem and bringing the credibility and effectiveness back to these organizations. There is a reason that rcalf is getting bigger. They are addressing cattleman's concerns. You are not.

OK, Econ, what is your game? That is the first time you have said anything good about USDA or NCBA, I do believe.

If people are not in the positions of such responsibility, how can they run the organization? Apparently JoAnn had that responsibility and did not live up to it. She was replaced. Now, lets encourage the replacement to do the job right. I don't think that includes publicly doubting that he will or can.

What do you mean by "separation"? Haven't I made it clear I want USDA to function properly and according to law?

You cannot possibly know anything about my "way of handling things"regarding GIPSA, except that I want the rules and the laws followed. So why do you believe that would "cause a disaster for producers instead of solving the problem...."?

Actually, R-CALF has had auction market leaders telling producers for years that packers are out to get them, that NCBA is working against them, and that USDA is helping the packers rob them. Too many people seem to like to believe the worst of those segments of the cattle/beef industry they know little about. R-CALF just tells them what they want to hear, and they cheer and hand over their money. That is much easier than to hear the realities of life regarding changes in this industry and to face the fact that we can be proactive and make change work for our own good. R-CALF is misleading them. NCBA is not. ANd some choose to hate NCBA for that. I'm sorry for those who will be hurt by their failure to face facts.

MRJ

MRJ, the criticisms of GIPSA did not happen overnight. Former NCBA people at the USDA were told what was happening a long time ago and they did nothing about GIPSA or the issues GIPSA was to address. Keep supporting them all you want. It makes you look like a fool. No wonder people have given up on the NCBA and gone to rcalf.

 

[mrj]

You are right, MRJ, there are a lot of good people who work at the USDA, the NCBA, and GIPSA. They are the ones who should be running these organizations, not people like JoAnn. If they don't question JoAnn with threat of jail time, I don't think they will be able to separate the wheat from the chaff over there, or show that they want to. You seem not want there to be a separation, that is why I have directed my comments at you. Your way of handling things will cause a disaster for producers instead of solving the problem and bringing the credibility and effectiveness back to these organizations. There is a reason that rcalf is getting bigger. They are addressing cattleman's concerns. You are not.

OK, Econ, what is your game? That is the first time you have said anything good about USDA or NCBA, I do believe.

If people are not in the positions of such responsibility, how can they run the organization? Apparently JoAnn had that responsibility and did not live up to it. She was replaced. Now, lets encourage the replacement to do the job right. I don't think that includes publicly doubting that he will or can.

What do you mean by "separation"? Haven't I made it clear I want USDA to function properly and according to law?

You cannot possibly know anything about my "way of handling things"regarding GIPSA, except that I want the rules and the laws followed. So why do you believe that would "cause a disaster for producers instead of solving the problem...."?

Actually, R-CALF has had auction market leaders telling producers for years that packers are out to get them, that NCBA is working against them, and that USDA is helping the packers rob them. Too many people seem to like to believe the worst of those segments of the cattle/beef industry they know little about. R-CALF just tells them what they want to hear, and they cheer and hand over their money. That is much easier than to hear the realities of life regarding changes in this industry and to face the fact that we can be proactive and make change work for our own good. R-CALF is misleading them. NCBA is not. ANd some choose to hate NCBA for that. I'm sorry for those who will be hurt by their failure to face facts.

MRJ

MRJ, the criticisms of GIPSA did not happen overnight. Former NCBA people at the USDA were told what was happening a long time ago and they did nothing about GIPSA or the issues GIPSA was to address. Keep supporting them all you want. It makes you look like a fool. No wonder people have given up on the NCBA and gone to rcalf.

Econ, some questions for you. 1. Why do you persist in insinuating that FORMER employees of NCBA still should or do have any particular loyalty to NCBA other than being honest about that org.?

2. Why do you expect us to believe what you say about those people being told "what was happening.....and doing nothing", when you post NO corroborating evidence of such? Do "just know" this, or did someone tell you this, or did YOU tell them?

Why should it be a reflection upon NCBA if that actually had happened? If you believe that it should be, should it not also be a reflection equally on any and all former employers of those peope?

Finally, I do not believe that any of the several people that I have met who worked for NCBA and moved on, would do ANYTHING unethical, illegal, or just wrong, based on brief acquaintance and observation of their work ethic during their time at NCBA.

MRJ

 

[Econ101]

OK, Econ, what is your game? That is the first time you have said anything good about USDA or NCBA, I do believe.

If people are not in the positions of such responsibility, how can they run the organization? Apparently JoAnn had that responsibility and did not live up to it. She was replaced. Now, lets encourage the replacement to do the job right. I don't think that includes publicly doubting that he will or can.

What do you mean by "separation"? Haven't I made it clear I want USDA to function properly and according to law?

You cannot possibly know anything about my "way of handling things"regarding GIPSA, except that I want the rules and the laws followed. So why do you believe that would "cause a disaster for producers instead of solving the problem...."?

Actually, R-CALF has had auction market leaders telling producers for years that packers are out to get them, that NCBA is working against them, and that USDA is helping the packers rob them. Too many people seem to like to believe the worst of those segments of the cattle/beef industry they know little about. R-CALF just tells them what they want to hear, and they cheer and hand over their money. That is much easier than to hear the realities of life regarding changes in this industry and to face the fact that we can be proactive and make change work for our own good. R-CALF is misleading them. NCBA is not. ANd some choose to hate NCBA for that. I'm sorry for those who will be hurt by their failure to face facts.

MRJ

MRJ, the criticisms of GIPSA did not happen overnight. Former NCBA people at the USDA were told what was happening a long time ago and they did nothing about GIPSA or the issues GIPSA was to address. Keep supporting them all you want. It makes you look like a fool. No wonder people have given up on the NCBA and gone to rcalf.

Econ, some questions for you. 1. Why do you persist in insinuating that FORMER employees of NCBA still should or do have any particular loyalty to NCBA other than being honest about that org.?

2. Why do you expect us to believe what you say about those people being told "what was happening.....and doing nothing", when you post NO corroborating evidence of such? Do "just know" this, or did someone tell you this, or did YOU tell them?

Why should it be a reflection upon NCBA if that actually had happened? If you believe that it should be, should it not also be a reflection equally on any and all former employers of those peope?

Finally, I do not believe that any of the several people that I have met who worked for NCBA and moved on, would do ANYTHING unethical, illegal, or just wrong, based on brief acquaintance and observation of their work ethic during their time at NCBA.

MRJ

MRJ, the silence of NCBA on the GIPSA issues tells a lot. The relationship is just too cozy and there is not enough verocity in the very little bit you posted from NCBA to get anything done in GIPSA. Is it NCBA's stance to just allow JoAnn Waterfield off without an adequate investigation into why she did what she did--or did not do? JoAnn will not squeal if she thinks she is protected in her incompetence. If NCBA will not support honesty, integrity, and competence in the USDA as a stated policy---and a vocal policy at that---then they are complicit in the problems just as the people in my analogies are complicit in those respective problems.

I think it is funny to hear you cheerleading for anything other than a strong reaction from you beloved NCBA on these issues that affect producers and the price of cattle so much. The complacency is just a little hard to swallow.

In the analogies I used, there were many, many good people who were in the organizations or the families in question and many who were not involved and completely innocent. It is only the people who knew about the problems and did something to stop them instead of playing with honey to catch bees as you advocate (you said flies) that allows the crimes to continue and the criminals to get away. When it comes to situations like this, you are right, it is flies and no, I don't believe you use honey, you use a fly swatter.

1. If you are saying that the people in USDA that came from the NCBA should not be as competent and honest in the USDA as you claim they were in the NCBA, maybe it tells you a little bit about your beloved NCBA training grounds.

2. The OIG report was corroborating evidence and you just ignored it. You are the idiot here, no one else. Did you read the report or do you like talking about it when you haven't read it? I have it here on my desk. Like I said before, you are probably one of those people who, after living in the town of Auschwitz, and having had to tour the concentration camp, would have denied the existance of the holocoust. To use your words, "you are disusting".

Why don't you just put the cheerleading outfit away. I am not after the "good" people to punished here. I am after those who saw evil and did nothing to stop it. They don't need to be in our government with positions of responsibility and power. When I see NCBA has the same attitude, I will not call them out. Until then, the finger is pointed at them and their complacency.

Does the NCBA support the USDA in not pressing JoAnn Waterfield for her mismanagment and incompetence for running of GIPSA and want to use ALL tools necessary, including charges against her, to compel her to spill the beans or not?