NCBA, R-CALF debate update

[Tommy]

NCBA, R-CALF debate update



NCBA, R-CALF agree to disagree at debate

By Jeff DeYoung, Iowa Farmer Today

September 21, 2005



SPENCER, IOWA -- Representatives from the National Cattlemen's Beef Association (NCBA) and R-CALF USA (Ranchers-Cattlemen Action Legal Fund) agreed to disagree at a forum here Sept. 14 during the Clay County Fair.



On most subjects — the Canadian border, beef imports from other countries, the ban on U.S. beef in Japan — it appeared the two sides remained far apart on their stance on the issues.



Chief economist Gregg Doud represented the NCBA while R-CALF CEO Bill Bullard spoke for his group.



An audience member asked about importing foreign beef into the United States, particularly in the wake of BSE (mad-cow disease) cases in Canada, Japan and other countries.



Foreign beef



Doud said there was little risk involved in importing beef.



"Any packing plant in the world is regulated by the Food Safety and Inspection Service before it can export beef into the United States, and those regulations are exactly the same as they are in the U.S.," he said.



"To say it's not safe, let's be honest and say you're protectionist. The beef is safe. When you say it isn't, you give the pork and poultry guys a clean shot at it."



Bullard maintained there is risk in imported beef.



"We have requirements but we don't have the personnel for those plants like we have in the U.S.," he said. "This is a $48 billion industry, and we need to be vigilant to make sure our product is differentiated from the rest."



Bullard said R-CALF is concerned that by allowing Canadian beef into the United States, it will hurt U.S. access to some export markets.



Country of origin labeling



Implementing country-of-origin labeling (COOL) will help U.S. producers, he added.



"We need to have a positive tool to compete in the domestic and export market, and the way to do that is COOL," he said. "It takes control away from the packer."



Although the NCBA supports the COOL concept, Doud said it has some issues with wording of the legislation.



"How much beef from Australia, New Zealand, Canada actually ends up in the U.S.? Practically none, and what does come here goes into the food-service industry," he said. "Right now, food service is exempt from this law."



Beef checkoff



Bullard believes COOL ties into the beef checkoff, which the U.S. Supreme Court recently ruled as constitutional.



"R-CALF does not have a position on the checkoff. We support a periodic vote on it," he said.



"But, if you're going to have a mandatory checkoff, you need to be able to promote a USA product. If you are going to be competitive, you need to be able to advertise and market your product."



Doud noted the checkoff was directly responsible for the development of 1,500 new beef products over the past five years.



Open border



Bullard expressed displeasure about a recent federal court ruling allowing live, young Canadian cattle into the United States. R-CALF and other groups previously won an injunction against the USDA in a Montana district court.



"Cargill and IBP have been able to reach into Canada and grab those live cattle when prices here got too high, and that brought the prices down," he said. "That practice stopped when BSE was found in Canada."



Bullard said Canada was not testing enough cattle for BSE, adding bringing live animals into the United States increased the risk for another BSE outbreak.



Doud disagreed.



"Canada is actually testing more animals than we are," he said.



"They have a national identification system. Every one of our competitors has one.



"That's where our competitive disadvantage is right now. The whole world requires traceability, and we don't have it.



"Canada is a competitor, and they are going to be until we can get our act together on traceability."



Japanese trade



Bullard believes beef exports to Japan would have resumed by now if the USDA would agree to test all animals.



"We had an independent packer that wanted to do that in Kansas, and by saying no, the USDA effectively is blocking us from that market," he said.



Doud said he has spent the past 19 months working on resuming exports to Japan, and stated the Japanese have never asked for 100 percent testing. He said some have called this the most difficult trade issue since 1980, when the United States imposed a grain embargo on the Soviet Union after the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan.



"The Japanese consumer has lost confidence in the entire beef industry, and that's the process we're dealing with," Doud said. "This is about restoring confidence in beef safety in Japan."



Industry divisiness



Both men were asked about the divisiveness within the beef industry.



Although he has been with the NCBA for less than two years, Doud said he learned about the divisiveness in the past, and hopes to be able to work through it for a more unified beef industry.



"I understand that, and there was a time when we had to give access to get access, but not anymore," he said.



"But, we can't be protectionist.



"That's what they have done in the Middle East, isolating themselves, and that is a failed business model."



Bullard said producers have been told without a thriving export market, the U.S. beef industry would suffer.



Recent events, he added, have disproved that argument and shown more focus is needed on domestic demand.



"BSE stopped our exports, and your prices stayed at historical highs," he said.

 

[Big Muddy rancher]

Bullard believes beef exports to Japan would have resumed by now if the USDA would agree to test all animals.




He believes but he doesn't know that. Haymaker believes in the Tooth Fairy but that doesn't make it true.

 

[Jake]

I want to know when the Japanese consumers lost confidence in the American product? All that I've ever read is that the consumers want our beef because the can't afford their beef and that not having our beef is putting many restaurants out of business.

 

[rkaiser]

I guess that I must say I believe in the tooth fairy as well. The BSE testing issue is one more in long list of economic items that every one of us is trying to manipulate.

I'm sure there are lots of arguements out there for science :roll: and what will be next :roll: , but the bottom line here in Canada is a standoff between the Packers and those who would like to see an open market. Japanese companies have requested tested beef and yes there is no protocal in place for movement of tested beef between Japan and Canada. However the packers are winning the battle so far and the reason there is no protocal is that the government of Canada has not asked the government of Japan, or entertained the idea at the request of the packer led USDA.

Congradulations to the integral American packers in Canada for holding out on this one. In fact there is no need for any investigation into opening new markets as they have a surplus supply, and steady customer in the USA, and no need to change.

Should have heard the reps from Tyson and Cargill whine at the CBEF conferance where the majority of those without nose ring leads installed by Cargill and Tyson supported testing to access markets.

That should be good for a cut and paste job by SH.

 

[Tam]

Japanese companies have requested tested beef

Yes Randy Japanese companies, Japanese PRIVATE companies have requested tested beef but where did the Japanese Government request it. They haven't and according to an email we got a while back it said the Japanese Government would not go along with the private sectors plan.

 

[Sandhusker]

Japanese companies have requested tested beef

Yes Randy Japanese companies, Japanese PRIVATE companies have requested tested beef but where did the Japanese Government request it. They haven't and according to an email we got a while back it said the Japanese Government would not go along with the private sectors plan.

Tam, it seems you posted that information before. Wasn't it the same email that claimed the Japanese only took 3% of the carcass? If so, I wouldn't bet much on the accuracy of any statements from that source.

 

[Tam]

Bullard said R-CALF is concerned that by allowing Canadian beef into the United States, it will hurt U.S. access to some export markets.

Have there been any countries willing to take U.S. beef since BSE was found in the U.S. that said they would not take it if the U.S. was taking Canadian and if so who are they?

Bullard expressed displeasure about a recent federal court ruling allowing live, young Canadian cattle into the United States. R-CALF and other groups previously won an injunction against the USDA in a Montana district court.

"Cargill and IBP have been able to reach into Canada and grab those live cattle when prices here got too high, and that brought the prices down," he said. "That practice stopped when BSE was found in Canada."

Bullard said Canada was not testing enough cattle for BSE, adding bringing live animals into the United States increased the risk for another BSE outbreak.

Gee two reasons and neither one is a strong health issue against imports. One is to protect cattle prices, purely protectionist, never mind what it has done to the rest of the Beef industry. The other if the US has firewalls to stop another outbreak of BSE from the US NATIVE HERD then why can't those same firewalls stop another outbreak of BSE from imported cattle?

And as far as the testing no we don't test young under thirty month animals, and these are the only ones that are allowed in under the final rule that R-CALF is fighting. Not many other countries test them either including the US. We test the ones that the OIE recommended, over thirty month 4D cattle which most are not even taken off of our farms and ranches let alone allowed into the US . We also test far more than we were told to. But Bullard isn't going to tell you that is he?

Bullard believes beef exports to Japan would have resumed by now if the USDA would agree to test all animals.
"We had an independent packer that wanted to do that in Kansas, and by saying no, the USDA effectively is blocking us from that market," he said.

Doud said he has spent the past 19 months working on resuming exports to Japan, and stated the Japanese have never asked for 100 percent testing.

Now who are we to believe??? :???:
I Did a google search I didn't find anything about R-CALF and Japan sitting down for a talk, there wasn't even anything on R-CALFs website. I have to ask has Bullard ever talked to the Japanese Government or is this like his expertise on the Canadian system. He has never stepped foot in Canada to find out the truth and he has probably never talked to the Japanese, but he BELIEVES so its so.
The deal Creekstone had was with the Japanese private sector, according to Doud, one of the US men that has been working on resuming trade, the Japanese officials never asked for 100% testing and according to an email we recieve from the Canadian trade guys, the Japanese officials also said no to their private sector businessmen when asked to OK the Creekstone plan. But that does'nt matter to some I guess.

 

[Tam]

Japanese companies have requested tested beef

Yes Randy Japanese companies, Japanese PRIVATE companies have requested tested beef but where did the Japanese Government request it. They haven't and according to an email we got a while back it said the Japanese Government would not go along with the private sectors plan.

Tam, it seems you posted that information before. Wasn't it the same email that claimed the Japanese only took 3% of the carcass? If so, I wouldn't bet much on the accuracy of any statements from that source.

Sorry Sandhusker I would take their word over yours anyday of the week Because we know you get your information from what Lying Leo tells you and that comes from what Bulls**t Bullard BELIEVES. :wink:

 

[rkaiser]

Tam

Yes Randy Japanese companies, Japanese PRIVATE companies have requested tested beef but where did the Japanese Government request it. They haven't and according to an email we got a while back it said the Japanese Government would not go along with the private sectors plan.

As I said before Tam, the reason there is no protocal is the lack of will from the Canadian government to ask. The Japanese governement will not go along with the provate sector because there is no protocal.

It's not even a chicken and egg scenerio, it is simply a pigheaded attitude by the feds to hold a stick over the Japanese head rather than ask. Why the pigheaded attitude? I personally believe it is due to the whiney packers who cannot guarantee how long it might take to claw back the cost of labs and testing from the producers of this country. And I thought ranchers and farmers were supposed to be the whiney ones! :roll:

 

[Sandhusker]

Tam, "Have there been any countries willing to take U.S. beef since BSE was found in the U.S. that said they would not take it if the U.S. was taking Canadian and if so who are they?"

That's not the fear, Tam. The facts are that there are countries that won't take your beef. We want to sell ours to them. If we take yours, and since we hae no COOL and can't segregate your product even to our consumers, why would that country want to do business with us?

Tam, "Gee two reasons and neither one is a strong health issue against imports. One is to protect cattle prices, purely protectionist, never mind what it has done to the rest of the Beef industry. The other if the US has firewalls to stop another outbreak of BSE from the US NATIVE HERD then why can't those same firewalls stop another outbreak of BSE from imported cattle?"

One of our biggest firewalls was a zero tolerance policy on importing from BSE positive countries. The USDA even testified to Congress that policy was a cornerstone to combating BSE. Since the AMI brought it to the attention of the USDA that it was costing them money now that Canada was a BSE positive country, that firewall suddenly disappeared.

Tam, "And as far as the testing no we don't test young under thirty month animals, and these are the only ones that are allowed in under the final rule that R-CALF is fighting. Not many other countries test them either including the US. We test the ones that the OIE recommended, over thirty month 4D cattle which most are not even taken off of our farms and ranches let alone allowed into the US . We also test far more than we were told to. But Bullard isn't going to tell you that is he?"

There's a lot of countries who test under 30 months, Tam.

Tam, "The deal Creekstone had was with the Japanese private sector, according to Doud, one of the US men that has been working on resuming trade, the Japanese officials never asked for 100% testing and according to an email we recieve from the Canadian trade guys, the Japanese officials also said no to their private sector businessmen when asked to OK the Creekstone plan. But that does'nt matter to some I guess."

I don't want to rehash this, but that email also said Japan only takes 3% of the carcass. Do the math, Tam. Figure what 3% of a carcass would be. If you don't have a caluclator, ask someone who does. When you have a number, ask yourself if that makes any sense at all. If it does to you, I'd like to sell you some beef.

 

[Tam]

That's not the fear, Tam. The facts are that there are countries that won't take your beef. We want to sell ours to them. If we take yours, and since we hae no COOL and can't segregate your product even to our consumers, why would that country want to do business with us?

Name One country that this has been a problem and if you can't then I don't see what your fear is all about. And if they aren't taking ours because of BSE why would they take your or did you forget you also have BSE in YOUR NATIVE HERD. Besides Sandhusker I thought R-CALF claimed that it was the US system that would spread BSE if imported so whos system do you think foreign markets should trust. According to the OIE the Canadian approach to sharing of information and communication about our BSE "was something to be emulated". But the credibility of the US beef industry has suffered from the handling of the Washington cow and the handling of the enhanced surveillance system that had suspect cattle slipping though plants and then the 7 month delay in finding you do have BSE in your native herd because the USDA choose to use the wrong confirmation test after the test sample came back inconclusive multiple times. So again why should the foreign market trust your meat again Sandhusker?

One of our biggest firewalls was a zero tolerance policy on importing from BSE positive countries.

Yes this firewall did you alot of good now didn't it or again did you forget you have BSE in the U.S. NATIVE HERD. Time to look at the new science and at the rest of the U.S. firewalls and see to it that they are the ones working. If you have them improved enough to stop the Native BSE what is the harm of importing cattle from a country that actually has stricter firewalls than you and have had for more than a few years. Besides didn't the OIE take a look at the NEW science and say it was not neccesary to ban imports as look as a few precautionary measures were in place.

There's a lot of countries who test under 30 months, Tam.

Does the U.S. Sandhusker and if they don't I have a little something for you to read from the OIE:
"The importing country cannot be more trade restrictive than necessary to achieve the desired national level of protection, "and" that it's measures must not be different from those applied to products within the domestic market"

I don't want to rehash this, but that email also said Japan only takes 3% of the carcass. Do the math, Tam. Figure what 3% of a carcass would be. If you don't have a caluclator, ask someone who does. When you have a number, ask yourself if that makes any sense at all. If it does to you, I'd like to sell you some beef.

Sandhusker the argument was that you said if Japan consumer asked for tested beef the US should test it, label it and ship it even if the test proved nothing about the safety of the meat, because that is what the Japanese want. You didn't seem to care if the Japanese knew 100% tested beef doesn't means BSE FREE as long as it got you back into that market. I asked what would happen to the part of the carcass that Japan didn't take would it be sold to the US consumer as 100% BSE tested beef so they would also believe it was BSE FREE, You said there wouldn't be any sold in the US as Japan would take it all. They take some of the highest quality cuts and some of the things that the US consumers won't eating. That does not equal 100% of the carcass. So even if the 3% is off by a bit, you were wrong. 3%, 10% or 50% is not 100% which means some of every animal tested for Japan is sold in the U.S. to U.S. consumers So I still believe my source when he had a quote from the Japanese official saying they had heard of the Creekstone deal but they said NO to the private sector plan. But you go right on believing what R-CALF tells you to believe, as if Bullard believe it just couldn't be a lie now could it. :roll:

 

[Tam]

Tam

Yes Randy Japanese companies, Japanese PRIVATE companies have requested tested beef but where did the Japanese Government request it. They haven't and according to an email we got a while back it said the Japanese Government would not go along with the private sectors plan.

As I said before Tam, the reason there is no protocal is the lack of will from the Canadian government to ask. The Japanese governement will not go along with the provate sector because there is no protocal.

It's not even a chicken and egg scenerio, it is simply a pigheaded attitude by the feds to hold a stick over the Japanese head rather than ask. Why the pigheaded attitude? I personally believe it is due to the whiney packers who cannot guarantee how long it might take to claw back the cost of labs and testing from the producers of this country. And I thought ranchers and farmers were supposed to be the whiney ones! :roll:

Think about something other than blaming the Packers for everything Randy. We have been told many times the hold up in Japan is from the pressure the Japanese consumers are putting on their government not to change their testing protocol. I have even read this from the online Japanese Media so it's not the Canadian or US government making it up. If this is true then why is it that Doud says they have NEVER ASKED FOR 100% testing? Don't you think if they were willing to except 100% tested beef they would just ask for it as that is what the consumer want? What would be their reason to wait until we asked? Could it be that the reason Japan has never asked us for 100% tested beef is because they know from their testing protocol that the testing of younger animals proves nothing and is a waste of money? Could they see this as a way of getting out of the expensive practice of 100% testing? Could going along with the Private sector plan reinforce the Japanese consumers beliefs that 100% testing is neccesary? Is that what the Japanese Government wants them to believe if they are going though the expensive of changing their testing protocol? So again Randy why hasn't Japan just asked for 100% testing instead of going through all the work and expensive of changing their domestic testing protocol? :roll:

 

[Sandhusker]

OK, Tam. Everything R-CALF says is lies and has absolutley no truth.

Are you related to SH?

 

[Big Muddy rancher]

OK, Tam. Everything R-CALF says is lies and has absolutley no truth.

Are you related to SH?

It's took a long time but i finally agree with you. :cowboy:

 

[rkaiser]

Yip Tam, that's all I do is Blame the Packers.

Waste of time trying to explain anything to you obviously.

Next major industry meeting, why don't you come and line up with the cry babies from Cargill and Tyson. Maybe you could get a position on the CCA board if you aren't gunning for it already.

Just because a person doesn't agree with everything you have to say doesn't mean I am blaming the packers.

Your board your highness.

 

[Tam]

Yip Tam, that's all I do is Blame the Packers.

Waste of time trying to explain anything to you obviously.

Next major industry meeting, why don't you come and line up with the cry babies from Cargill and Tyson. Maybe you could get a position on the CCA board if you aren't gunning for it already.

Just because a person doesn't agree with everything you have to say doesn't mean I am blaming the packers.
Your board your highness.

No Randy but statement like this one

I personally believe it is due to the whiney packers who cannot guarantee how long it might take to claw back the cost of labs and testing from the producers of this country.

and this

However the packers are winning the battle so far and the reason there is no protocal is that the government of Canada has not asked the government of Japan, or entertained the idea at the request of the packer led USDA

. and this

Should have heard the reps from Tyson and Cargill whine at the CBEF conferance where the majority of those without nose ring leads installed by Cargill and Tyson supported testing to access markets.

Threse three statements and the many other you have posted about the whining da*n packers tell me you do blame the packers for just about everything that has happen in Canada.
You are wrong about not agreeing on everything because I agree we do need more processing in Canada and more markets. I just don't happen to agree that is what the National Checkoff dollars should be used for.

 

[rkaiser]

Forgot one Tam -

Randy the Packer Blamer says -

However the packers are winning the battle so far and the reason there is no protocal is that the government of Canada has not asked the government of Japan, or entertained the idea at the request of the packer led USDA.

Tam, may I ask, why do you think the Government of Canada has not approached the Japanese government to develop a protocal for BSE testing to acess their market which is quite obviously a consumer issue on their side of the pond?

When I talked of the packer whiners at the CBEF meetings, I was refering to those who represent Cargill and Tyson. Neilsen Bros where stting on there ass like usual, and every new packer came out in favor of testing for market access.

You talk of it being a money issue yourself; a waste of money and a waste of time. Why is that Tam? Who's money would be wasted?

 

[Tam]

Forgot one Tam -

Randy the Packer Blamer says -

However the packers are winning the battle so far and the reason there is no protocal is that the government of Canada has not asked the government of Japan, or entertained the idea at the request of the packer led USDA.

Tam, may I ask, why do you think the Government of Canada has not approached the Japanese government to develop a protocal for BSE testing to acess their market which is quite obviously a consumer issue on their side of the pond?

When I talked of the packer whiners at the CBEF meetings, I was refering to those who represent Cargill and Tyson. Neilsen Bros where stting on there ass like usual, and every new packer came out in favor of testing for market access.

You talk of it being a money issue yourself; a waste of money and a waste of time. Why is that Tam? Who's money would be wasted?

Well Randy I would say the Japanese after years of 100% testing came to the conclusion that it is a waste of both as the test proves nothing in the younger animals and that is why they decided to change their testing protocol to not test the younger animals. Do you really believe that if Japan thought it was neccessary they would go through the work to change their testing without even asking the US and Canada to meet their testing requirements?
I believe Canada didn't ask as they looked at the recommendation from the OIE that told them to test the "highest risk populations of adult fallen stock, and dead stock, cattle demonstrating clinical signs compatible with BSE and downers." We were told by the CFIA that if we choose to test health animals we would have to test 100 healthy for every 1 4D animal (30,000 4D or 3,000,000 healthy animals). The CFIA thought we could handle the 4D catagory numbers with our testing capacity so those are the ones we test. I ask you Randy what is the testing capabilities in Canada if you think we could test for market access? You already said that the packers would have to claw back the price of the labs from the producers. So do they have those labs built or would they have to build them before we would have the capacity to test? Just how long do you think that is going to take? And just how much do you think the packers will be clawing back? I bet it will be far more that just the price of the test if they have to pay for a lab that as of yet no foreign market has asked for. And Why should we test for Japan if they are the ones not asking and are willing to change to meet us part way. Yes it is taking time for them to change their protocol but I doubt it is taking them any longer to get their laws changed as it has the US to change theirs.

every new packer came out in favor of testing for market access.

Do these new packers have labs and if they don't where will they have every animal they slaughter tested and what kind of time delay will there be and do they have enough cool space to hold all the animals until the test results come back from an off site lab?