How can I say this so that perhaps I can make myself understood??!!?? :shock: :???: - - - - - - - - -Hm-m-m- - - I really don't know! :roll: :roll: There have been literally hundred's of posts on these two Forums and - -I guess - -hundreds of thousands of articles, print-outs, reports, reviews, essays, treatises, written materials, catalog comments, textbooks, editorials - - - and on and on and on attempting to explain WHAT and WHY and HOW it is so important in the improvement of the breedstock of our beef cattle in making a larger income at the end of the day, or year, and hanging a more profitable carcass on the rail to KNOW what the GENETIC background is of our cattle! The only way to know that is through the ancestry of the bulls and cows in our herds. The way to know that ancestry is - - - - -PEDIGREES - - -whether they are Purebred - - or mongrels or scrubs. If they are alive - they have a genetic background through their parents. That genetic background is shown through pedigrees - whether they are written on a parchment scroll in India ink, or printed from a computer, or scribbled on the back of an envelope with a dull, stub of a lead pencil. To improve your herd you must know what your herd consists of. Registered or commercial - makes no difference. - - - -Another old saying: "You don't buy a pig in a poke!" Knowing what your Bulls genetic make-up is DOES mean more than a little to you! You don't improve your 'commercial' herd by buying a "Bull in a poke" either.
I saw that 004 bull and I liked him phenotypically. He was a wee bit small but well balanced I thought. What do you not like about him?WB said:Doc: It seems I have mispoken again. I will try this another way. I have very little prejudice as far as pedigriee goes and I am not after the next hottest thing. I am more interested in surefire improvement than taking chances. An example of this would everyone going wacko over the traveler 004 bull that is the current fad. My cows don't have registration papers and I don't sell bulls nor do my cows have epds.
Yes I do believe in epds but in the current Angus world there are a lot of what should I say flukes out there that are not as good as their epds say they are. An example of this is the bull called Rito 6I6. Some will disagree with me on this but it is the way I see it.
DOC HARRIS said:
Denny-(Deep breath! :roll: :roll: ) If you will read my post carefully you will note I DID NOT mumble even one word about numbers! Not - one - word! Read what I said - NOT what you THINK I said!Denny said:
You have me curious now FH. Is he too big weight wise or height wise or both for you? In saying he was a wee bit small I mean in total mass excluding height. He is a 5.5 frame I would guess by looking at him. I had a 5.75 frame bull in the same barn but my bull was wider and deeper (by a small amount) I would guess him to weigh 2300#. I'm not a black breeder but did admire the 004 bull. There was another Boyd bred black bull there that was of a lesser quality in my estimation. (Hey Doc , I am excluding epd's in my evaluation)Faster horses said:
FH I am not saying I got it right. I am only commenting on how the bull would work for me. You are correct there is alot of difference when evaluating how a bull would work in different environments and management styles. That is one of the short comings of epd's . They are an average of how a particular bull will work nation wide. Actual weights and ratios from a herd managed similiar to mine and in an environment similiar to mine give me a more accurate picture of how a bull will work for me.
