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New Labor Rule: needs your comments today

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J

JF Ranch

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I received this e-Update from our Nebraska Senator Johanns yesterday:

Senator Johanns e-Update
November 29, 2011


I want to remind you of a deadline approaching for those wishing to express thoughts on a proposed rule from the Department of Labor that could have far-reaching effects on the way farmers and ranchers conduct business. The proposal would ban those under the age of 16 from working on a farm or ranch not owned by their parents, preventing valuable learning activities that allow young people to gain experience in agriculture. Earlier this year, I asked the Labor Department to extend the comment period for this proposed rule, and you now have until this Thursday, December 1st to offer your thoughts. I strongly encourage those of you interested in sending a comment to do so.

Go to this link: http://www.regulations.gov/#!documentDetail;D=WHD-2011-0001-0001

Tomorrow is the deadline, so if you have a strong opinion on this, hurry!
 
Why would ANY rancher/farmer in his/her right mind even WANT to 'hire' a an inexperienced 16 yr old to do the work that an experienced 30 or 40-something can do many times better (and smarter) without said-rancher/farmer having to look over his/her shoulder ?

Even if said 16 yr old is a 'dependent' of other hired-hands, it still makes little sense to risk the operation, especially given the increasingly tuff time$ we're all going through lately.

If this has something to do with 'younger-stronger backs' being considered more 'valuable' to the employer, over an 'older' prospective-employee...then I'd have to say it's more of an issue with the employer being unable (or 'un-WILLING' perhaps ?) to learn how to slow DOWN a little.

Just wondering; and I welcome all views MINUS any personal-attacks; we are ADULTS here after all.
 
ltdumbear2 said:
Why would ANY rancher/farmer in his/her right mind even WANT to 'hire' a an inexperienced 16 yr old to do the work that an experienced 30 or 40-something can do many times better (and smarter) without said-rancher/farmer having to look over his/her shoulder ?

Even if said 16 yr old is a 'dependent' of other hired-hands, it still makes little sense to risk the operation, especially given the increasingly tuff time$ we're all going through lately.

If this has something to do with 'younger-stronger backs' being considered more 'valuable' to the employer, over an 'older' prospective-employee...then I'd have to say it's more of an issue with the employer being unable (or 'un-WILLING' perhaps ?) to learn how to slow DOWN a little.

Just wondering; and I welcome all views MINUS any personal-attacks; we are ADULTS here after all.
Click to expand...

In our situation, it's a matter of needing SUMMER help, not year-round
help, so we can't offer a job to a person needing full-time employment.
If we can't hire these kids, what are we going to do? And it's not all that
easy hiring kids that want to work any more either, since years ago
we were told we couldn't hire kids under 16 years of age. If they haven't learned to work by the time they are 16, it seems they learn how to
GET OUT OF WORKING.

Just my humble opinion.
 
ltdumbear2 said:
Why would ANY rancher/farmer in his/her right mind even WANT to 'hire' a an inexperienced 16 yr old to do the work that an experienced 30 or 40-something can do many times better (and smarter) without said-rancher/farmer having to look over his/her shoulder ?

Even if said 16 yr old is a 'dependent' of other hired-hands, it still makes little sense to risk the operation, especially given the increasingly tuff time$ we're all going through lately.

If this has something to do with 'younger-stronger backs' being considered more 'valuable' to the employer, over an 'older' prospective-employee...then I'd have to say it's more of an issue with the employer being unable (or 'un-WILLING' perhaps ?) to learn how to slow DOWN a little.

Just wondering; and I welcome all views MINUS any personal-attacks; we are ADULTS here after all.
Click to expand...


I would sooner hirer a young kid over a 30 or 40 year old for these reasons.

1.where I live we are very seasonal I can hire a high school to work with me all summer long and when fall comes he can go back to school and I not feeling bad about having to let someone go that is trying to support a family.

2. I believe that if we do not get this young generation off their asses and have them start to work this nation as a whole is for a world of hurt

3. If you don't start with a 16 year old then all you will have is an inexperience 30 year old

4. We as parents need help in raising of kids to be the kind of adults you can be proud of here is an example of what I am talking about. I have a friend that has a 16 year old boy that got in troulbe and the judge told him he needed to do 100 hrs of community service so his dad asked if he could come over and work for me to pay off his hours. So for the next 3 weeks he would come over after school and help clean corrals muck out pens and what ever needed to be done. As I worked with this boy I watched him turn into a man at the end of his servce he came up and asked if would hire him to work on the farm I kept him on till he went off to collage I asked him one day why he wanted to stay and work and the answer he came back with when I leave here for the night I am to tired to go and do anything else and it is keeping me out of trouble. Now the way I look at it I just may have saved this kids life and hopefully he will turn out to be someone his family will be proud of.
 
all good points, but did you ever give thought to the feelings of the older/experienced hand who wants to KEEP doing it, after having gotten a real 'taste' and/or 'talent' for it ?

Once it's in your blood, there's nothing worse than being passed-over and being forced to watch the kiddies get all the chances.

...not everyone who develops a real 'feel' for the life, has the financial-wherewithall (or 'connections') to just go out and 'buy' his own outfit.
 
Try hiring a 30-40 year old for 6 bucks an hour to move sprinklers or fence or clean ditches! Where a 16 year old who wants some summer money and the experience that comes with it is very willing, an older guy sure can't feed a family on those wages. Without someone giving us all a chance as youngsters, we'd NEVER get the experience we have now. I'll bet these kids aren't being asked to do what older and more experienced people are doing, i.e. calving, running specialized equipment, doctoring cattle, ect. The kids are needed for basic, entry level agriculture labor. And they receive wages equal to the tasks assigned. Apples to oranges if you ask me. If a guy doesnt mind entry level wages for doing entry level work that doesn't require much supervision or experience, they could take the place of kids just starting out. But there's a reason a surgeon operates on you and a medical assistant takes your blood pressure. :wink: And you mentioned the tough times we are all having..... so how does paying more to do entry level work equal saving money? And slowing down like you mentioned also means more time which equals............money. Just saying. :D
 
This is America. Adults are entitled to not have to do manual ag. labor, just hold their hand out.
 
Technically, the issue is concerning employees under 16; however my view is 16 year olds with a little experience should be able to fill a lot of necessary roles in production agriculture. That's when I started working out, primarily because my Dad didn't have time to drive me to work before that.
As to what age or experience level should get any particular job; I can only speak from personal experience; but if I applied for a job I know how to do, it generally lasted until something changed.
Then I found the next job I know how to do.
Repeat as necessary...
 
ltdumbear2 said:
Why would ANY rancher/farmer in his/her right mind even WANT to 'hire' a an inexperienced 16 yr old to do the work that an experienced 30 or 40-something can do many times better (and smarter) without said-rancher/farmer having to look over his/her shoulder ?

Even if said 16 yr old is a 'dependent' of other hired-hands, it still makes little sense to risk the operation, especially given the increasingly tuff time$ we're all going through lately.

If this has something to do with 'younger-stronger backs' being considered more 'valuable' to the employer, over an 'older' prospective-employee...then I'd have to say it's more of an issue with the employer being unable (or 'un-WILLING' perhaps ?) to learn how to slow DOWN a little.

Just wondering; and I welcome all views MINUS any personal-attacks; we are ADULTS here after all.
Click to expand...

I thank God that an Uncle was willing to invest time in me. I would like to be able to use my grandchildren and other young people for their sake. Good cowmen don't begin learning the trade after graduation.
 
OK I worked on the farm that MY FATHER worked for during summer...what about the safe stuff like chopping cotton , picking cotton, picking up square bales and hooking beans when I was from 6 years old to 12.....later I drove a tractor from 12 to 17 till I when to work during summer at a dairy farm WERE MY UNCLE WORKED...I then went to work in retail after 31 years I BOUGHT MY OWN FARM.....but without that working as a kid I never would have known what farming was or would I have had school clothes


this would have took everything I now have away from me except working retail
 
ltdumbear2 said:
all good points, but did you ever give thought to the feelings of the older/experienced hand who wants to KEEP doing it, after having gotten a real 'taste' and/or 'talent' for it ?

Once it's in your blood, there's nothing worse than being passed-over and being forced to watch the kiddies get all the chances.

...not everyone who develops a real 'feel' for the life, has the financial-wherewithall (or 'connections') to just go out and 'buy' his own outfit.[/

No 16 yr old kid is going to take your job. There should be no law stating that a kid can't work on a farm or ranch. One more stupid law to help control the people.
Click to expand...
 
I've been hiring some younger "kids" (19-21 yr olds) lately, mostly city kids, but they don't seem to be able to think for themselves. Can't think 1, let alone 2 steps ahead. Asked a "kid" to set up my air compressor and shop vac for some work the other day and after I had climbed up the 10 foot step ladder, with the ends of both, he looked at me all confused, when I asked if he had plugged them in?

Me: "well they won't run if they are not" Him: "you'll have to be more specific in the future when telling me to "set them up"" :lol: I came down the ladder and showed him how to plug them in.......he must be used to "wireless" :D Me: " Is that specific enough?"

They'd do well if they were to spend some time on a ranch/farm for a bit after reaching the age of 16, IMO.

How many of us weren't working a labour intensive day, by the time we were 16? (summer or weekends)

I don't think they are replacing the 30 somethings, but they need to be trained to work, and the experience they gain from working for as many people as possible is invaluable, IMO. different ideas, different methods.....

@ myersfarm....I remember driving tractor at the age of 8, baling....my brother was always jealous, cause his leg would not reach the clutch and had to help "drag" bales to dad, so he could stack.....

:lol: :lol:
 
Shortgrass: "Good cowmen don't begin learning the trade after graduation."

> assuming I've read you correctly, I'm gonna hafta call "B.S." on that comment right there. Upbringing has little or nothing to do with it. It's all about what grabs your attention, and how far you (are ALLOWED to) run with it.
 
I have had a paying job since I was 13, except the 5 years I tried going it on my "own". If you think a 16 year old kid is going to take your job as a 40 year old adult, you are probably in the wrong profession, or extremely insecure with your abilities. I am sure I was started to young. I put up all of my folks hay when I was 8, by myself. Yes I was too young, but I will guarantee, that I learned how to work, and have never once asked for a hand out in my life.
Kids in agriculture are what makes agriculture work. I routinely hire 13 and 14 year old kids to help pickup bales,and such. Some of my favorite riding partners are young kids. Not only are they fun to listen too, but they want to learn.
 
Well, something important about this proposed law has been missed in this discussion so far.

This is NOT just about hiring kids. This law would also stop kids (and from what I heard at the SD stockgrowers meeting, our own kids) from even riding a horse and helping at branding whether you pay them or not. This law would prevent you from having any kids out at your place for fun or for work.

It is like alot of rules and regs, it will just create liars and more creative lying to get around them.
 
It amazes me how many laws we have which restrict who and when people cannot work, but we do not have any laws which actually require us to work and pay our way.

Between the laws that restrict who and when people can work, and the entitlements for those that do not work, it is no wonder America has economic uncertainty.
 
We hire school kids and love them.. The fact that our kids work on the farm make them so much better at what ever is put in front of them in life...The teachers at school always compliment us on how good of a work ethic our kids have. We want kids with no farm back ground so we can teach them the correct way in handling cattle or farming.. All it takes is a little of your time and they will make you the best all around hand.. We don't hear any bitchin and moaning about how they already know this or did this before or I'm to old to do this..... We put in some really long days and they never faulter.. I baled alfalfa all night last summer and one of the boys raked for me.. When he was done raking, he stopped me to ask if I wanted him to stay till I finished baling.. We know that if something happened to my hubby and I, our kids and foster kids, that's what I call our kids that help us, will carry on just like as if we were there.. I would do anything for our summer help and they know that they will always have a job after school if they want to come back to the farm/ranch..
Sad deal if this bill is passed.....It will make a whole generation of worthless kids for the goverment to support. Instead of a can do attitude it will be I can't.
 
I don't know how it is in other areas, but here it is haard to find experienced help to work on farms and ranches, even though there is unemployment.

I can not see where a 15 or 16 year old kid should be a threat to an experienced worker. Most young people who have worked for me have been enthuslastic and willing to learn. They are our future workers. Often the older guys find themselves in a rut and just take a ho-hum attitude.
 

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