NY issues emergency regulations - Mad Deer

[Kathy]

Why do you insist on using words which are misleading, Reader.

You have used the words "Mad Deer" in the title of this thread, Why?

The article does not use this terminology!

Your continued attempts to link Mad Cow (BSE) with CWD, your words "Mad Deer", are extremely harmful to our industry.

Please let's stop this in the bud. You have no right to connect the two, when you don't believe that either is caused by environmental factors and deficiencies of certain minerals. You believe they are infectious, and your attempts to label them both as Mad diseases is to draw CWD into the frenzied propaganda that tries to link BSE with vCJD.

 

[Kathy]

Reader, whoever you are, you have posted countless articles titled with CWD this or CWD that, now you use the term MAD Deer. Why don't you use Mad Human disease instead of vCJD? Maybe someone here on this page has never heard of vCJD.

It is your insistance at throughing articles at us that spread fear that we (cattlemen) are in an industry that is doomed, that pisses me off.

The media is guilty of calling this disease MAD cow instead of BSE. You are guilty of calling CWD - Mad Deer! Others are too, and none of you are helping matters by spreading fear.

I did not bring up Mr. Purdey in my posting, you did. He is a TSE expert. The only one I am aware of that has actually travelled the world visiting TSE hot spots and doing soil analysis, etc.

Since you have no clue as to what I know about these things, you are free to comment on whatever you like; but your insistance on defaming my knowledge is not welcome. Why don't you just apologize for calling it Mad Deer instead of CWD?

Diverting everyone's attention to CWD fact sheets, instead of apologizing for the Mad reference. If you think we are so stupid on this site we don't know what CWD is, I wonder why you hang around to "inform" us.

 

[TimH]

Quote from reader the 2nd's post- "So far, necropsies of hunters whose deaths raised suspicions of CWD infection have returned negative results." :???: :???:

Hmmm???? What would these findings seem to suggest???? :wink:

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[Big Muddy rancher]

reader you don't give us poor folk enough credit. Most of have heard of CWD as many deal with thru our livestock organizations. I glad you think it is your mission to educate the ignorant but give us a little credit . :cowboy:

 

[TimH]

reader the 2nd- "TimH : you are a wiseacre but not a wise man"

How could you come to that conclusion when the only words in my post, that were mine, were a question??? BTW....would you care to answer that question???

reader the 2nd- "If you are not interested, ignore them."

Ah, but I am interested.That is why I read your post and asked an honest question. BTW, the fact that these necropsies on the hunters yielded negative results, would seem to suggest what????

reader the 2nd- "One thing is certain, you don't read what I post before shooting off your mouth."

Oh but I DID read what you posted before shooting off my mouth.How else could I have found this sentence and copied and pasted it in my post......"So far, necropsies of hunters whose deaths raised suspicions of CWD infection have returned negative results."?????

reader the 2nd- "Otherwise, we'll assume that your motivations are simply to have a good time at the expense of another person. Very lofty motivations."

Hmmmm?? If you can ASSUME what my motivations are, would that mean that I can also assume what YOURS are????? Perhaps you should consider changing your name to MIND-READER (the second)!! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

By the way, what would the negative post mortem test results on those hunters seem to suggest???....or did I ask you that already??? :lol:

 

[TimH]

Quote- "Therefore, the CDC believes that if CWD passes to humans,..."

"...."IF" CWD passes to humans...." ???? Can we take this as an admission that the CDC ,thus far, has no evidence to suggest that CWD CAN pass to humans?????

reader the 2nd- "The wiseacre conclusion is from the row of laughing smilies."

Oh!!!! I see now!!! What about the "not a wise man" conclusion???? :???: :???: :???: :???: :???: :???: :???: :???: :???:

 

[TimH]

Quote- "In 2004,scientists at the federal Centers for Disease Control in Atlanta issueda study on chronic wasting disease that stressed the absence of any evidence linking CWD to humans".

".....stressed the absence of any evidence linking CWD to humans".

"......ABSENSE of ANY EVIDENCE........"

Thank you!!! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[TimH]

reader the 2nd- "They recommended more study..."

More study??? By all means!!!!! But until the results of "more study" are known, the "ABSENSE of ANY EVIDENCE" fact remains!!!

"ABSENSE of ANY EVIDENCE" is very strong and definitive language,I'm sure you would agree. Particularly coming from the CDC.

But..... but.... but.... perhaps if they do more study.................

Now....about the "supposed" link between CJD or vCJD and beef........???


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[TimH]

reader the 2nd- "You appear to be ignorant of how the public health agencies in the U.S. work".

Oh really!!!! Is the CDC a "public health agency" in the US ???? Did the CDC say this..."In 2004,scientists at the federal Centers for Disease Control in Atlanta issueda study on chronic wasting disease that stressed the absence of any evidence linking CWD to humans".??????? :???:


Please pardon my "ignorance". I'm obviously far too ignorant to comprehend exactly what.. "stressed the absence of any evidence linking CWD to humans"...means.
Thank you for educating me as to my ignorance and lack of reading comprehension. I am forever in your debt. :? :? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

I'll try to brush up on my "TSE-speak" before I attempt to question you again. My apologies!!!!
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[Murgen]

Authors, though, acknowledged the study was limited in geographyThey have put the bulk of the research funding for TSEs into CWD

First question, what would geography have to do with it? Environmental factors maybe?

Next question, if the majority of citizens eat beef and not deer, why are they putting the "bulk into funding" for transmission of CWD towards "mad-Human desease"?

 

[Murgen]

Remember that incubation is long 10 - 40 years. I believe that the reference to geography is because the group of hunters autopsied did NOT come from Wyoming and Colorado but were as I remember from Michigan, Wisconsin, and maybe elsewhere

So, you mean they could have eaten deer from somewhere else 30 years before? Or maybe they only hunt in Wyoming and Colorado. Maybe they give out more tags there or something. Doesn't sound too scientific to me!

It could well be that they are more concerned about deer passing CWD to agricultural animals versus to humans. They did jump all over the young hunters who died of CJD. Several were in 20s or early 30s, which is not common with classic CJD.

But I thought it was transmitted through feed and not removing SRM's and stuff, like R-calf said?

How many of the under 30 had CJD?

 

[TimH]

Quote from reader the 2nd's original post in this thread- "The positive sample for CWD was from a wild yearling white-tailed deer, ...."

The operative word being "YEARLING".

reader the 2nd's latest post....quote- "Remember that incubation is long 10 - 40 years"

Oh I get it now!!!! The incubation period for CWD in deer can be 1 year or less......but IF CWD could jump species to humans the incubation period of the same TSE could be 10 to 40 years. Glad we cleared that one up!!!! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[TimH]

reader the 2nd- "Yes, you need to go back to TSE kindergarten but I fear you are unlikely to advance through first grade with all that gratuitous laughing that you do."

I am slain once again by your superior intellect. Fortunately, any gratuitous laughing that I may or may not do, has absolutely no effect on my ability to comprehend the phrase..."scientists at the federal Centers for Disease Control in Atlanta issueda study on chronic wasting disease that stressed the absence of any evidence linking CWD to humans".

What is YOUR excuse??????

Here is some gratuitous frowning....

 

[Murgen]

How cattle originally got BSE I don't know -- speculation is scrapie crossing species. Why are you being disingenuous? AMPLIFICATION is what ruminant to ruminant feed caused. It caused an epidemic of what was likely confined to a small number of cattle. Do I have to explain this all over again or send you back to TSE kindergarten??

Reader, was this post directed at me? If it was I will answer it for you!

Amplification, I understand! Transmission and cause, is what others don't understand (that's why they are still studying it and using words such as "possible, probable" , and who's job it is to understand, before pointing fingers at an industry which has all to lose! So, why are they studying amplification and not causes? That is what I have been asking all along!

As Kathy posted in another thread, by posting "mad-cow, mad-deer" and other articles that are generated by those media groups that you yourself state are "paid Hacks" maybe we should prove some things before we jump on the PETA bandwagon!

Why do us "Canuckleheads" distrust R-calf and their members, because they have either been douped into believing half-truths or are lying themselves.

 

[Murgen]

You're forgetting Reader, this is not the UK, we have had the benefit of foresight and not hindsight. In North America, safeguards were put in place in enough time to warrant against an "amplification".

what you and many others in NA are making a big deal over is a "spike" because of timeline in our precautions, due to MBM importation.

Or a spontaneous cause, which not enough research is going into.

 

[TimH]

reader the 2nd- " Oh, I forgot, you don't give a d**m about TSEs, just like to have a joke at the expense of other people. "

What leads you to believe that I " don't give a d**m about TSEs"????? And furthermore, why might I be joking any more than YOU might be joking?????

AND, since you apparently feel you have the right to adress me by my given name ,(Timothy) perhaps you would be kind enough to disclose your given name so I could extend, to you ,the same courtesy????

PS. Exactly which part of the following phrase is it that you are having trouble comprehending........"scientists at the federal Centers for Disease Control in Atlanta issueda study on chronic wasting disease that stressed the absence of any evidence linking CWD to humans".

Gratuitous eye rolling... :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

 

[Kathy]

Do we want to talk the truth about funding for TSE research?

Just ask Stanley Prusiner how much money the NIH has given him for TSE research over the last 20 years. After all, in 2001 S. Prusiner was the NIH's most funded "basic researcher" in the USA. (all sciences)

2001 - NIH Fatcats List: The ten top-funded basic research investigators:
1. Stanley Prusiner, UC San Francisco: Prion diseases, $12.5M

"In 2004, the NIH will spend an estimated $33.2 million on research on TSEs." ....
"Therapeutics. No effective drug therapies for TSEs currently exist. NIH scientists, however, have recently developed a high-throughput screening test for inhibitors of TSE-associated prion accumulation. After testing more than 2000 FDA-approved drugs and natural products, they have discovered 15 inhibitors of abnormal prion formation representing several different classes of compounds. "

taken from: Appropriations Committee Hearing on BSE: Testimony of Dr. Anthony S. Fauci, Director, National Institute on Allergies and Infectious Diseases, NIH "

Wow, 15 inhibitors, I wonder what they are?

Dr. Prusiner has several patents and patents pending which are related to the finding, or filtering, of prions, including one for "homogenizing cow brain".

We will discuss some of these later on. If you want to find them; search the US Patent and Trademark Office website (Boolean search engine). The US government visa the NIH grants to Prusiner, has interests in many of his patents/applications. This doesn't sound to me, like a country that is not funding TSE research. They are very busy bees, applying for patents which may some day make them very rich.

Since science/drugs are big business, the patents must be in place before we share any information which might help sick people.

I have digressed. I must say I like the new/propoed rules relating to NIH funded research. If public tax dollars are spent to assist the research, then this research should be open for review.

 

[Murgen]

Since science/drugs are big business, the patents must be in place before we share any information which might help sick people

Kathy, are you saying that drug research has to follow strict guidelines for proven facts before selling thieir product to the consumer?

 

[TimH]

reader the 2nd- "CDC is unequivocal that they cannot rule out risk to humans. I know you can read."

True enough.... But the CDC is, at the very least, equally as unequivocal when they say this..."scientists at the federal Centers for Disease Control in Atlanta issueda study on chronic wasting disease that stressed the absence of any evidence linking CWD to humans". Can YOU read????

reader the 2nd- " It's enough that I smile when attacked here"

Are you implying that I "attacked" you by simply asking a question??? Need I remind you that you called me a "wiseacre" and "not a wise man"????

reader the 2nd- "I don't need any more pain than I have had already, hence I remain Reader the Second. "

Fair enough, I can certainly see how disclosing your given name would add to your pain......but please refrain from addressing me by my given name in the future. Only my Mommy calls me Timothy!!!!! :lol: :lol:

 

[TimH]

reader the 2nd- "....boyfriend on the fritz"

Whoa!!!!! That is already more information than I need!!!!

Have a great Sunday evening!!!! I'm heading out to my shop to try and make some money. 3 teenage boys are expensive to raise when my cattle are worthless.