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Observations

LazyWP

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 24, 2009
Messages
1,700
I always amazes me how we each think our own way of doing things is the "only" way. I will throw out some ideas, and you guys can pound on me for awhile.
The best money I have ever made in the cow business was with Pinzgauer/Charolais cross cows. They weighed on average 1700, with a good percentage bumping 2000. We knew they were big, and didn't try telling everyone that they were 1000 pounders. Guess that was part of the difference. We called them how they were. I hear everyone talking about medium frame cows, that weigh under 1200 pounds. I have hauled enough cows, and sat in the salebarn enough, to know that most 1200 pound cows are really 1500 plus. Then I hear that the calves weaned at 60% of the cow. Is that actual, or in your dream? Again, I haul enough, and visit the barn enough, to call BS!! Most are weaning around 600 pound calves, at the best, which if the cow was actually 1200 pounds is 50%. I DON'T really care! Just be honest.
Back to the Pinzgauer cross. They were registered, so we knew what each cow did. I am sure I have calved more 150 pound calves, then 80 or less, and I am also sure that I helped alot less of the big calves then the smaller ones. Calved in January and February, with 1 leaky old horse barn for shelter. Had a few calves come in the house, when it dropped to 20 below, but very seldom had anything locked in the barn. It wouldn't have done any good anyway. Our weaning weight was around 700, or should say the 205 day weight was. For the most part the calves went straight into the feedlot. Yes the bulls we sold were fed grain, and were pushed hard. We sent quite a few back to breed as a yearling, weighing 1700 plus. I don't remember any falling apart, but they may have, and we never heard about it.
Sorry for the ramble, but just because you calve in May, or think you have 1000 pound cows, or feed Loomix, or Vigrotone, or what ever else, isn't the only way of making money. A person has to do what works for them.
I didn't mean to pick on you 2, but you are both up in everyones face about your products, so I figured you were fair game.
 
I have decided there are almost as many ways to do something right, as there are people doing it.
You are right on about mature cow weights, although it makes a difference when they are weighed. Grass fat in the fall is a fairly big cow.
In thirty days I'll have a Loomix story, about grazing cornstalks. The first couple of chapters are pretty encouraging.
I have to think that good care of stock, is the most important product we can use.
 
I agree with the old theory "you do what works for you'" we dont have any vigertone or loomix around here so caint say one way or the other.
What i can say tho is a good mineral is cheap in the long run and what i like about liquid feed is the ease in which its fed lick tanks and me get along well, especially if you are spread out.
It really gets the bugs in those old cows stomach working which allows me to feed this sorry droughted out hay with liquid feed and have fat shiney cows that calve on time or head to town.
And that just about sums up my wintering program, liquid feed/lick tanks mineral and sorry hay.
good luck
 
Nice thing about ranching we are free to make all the mistakes we can afford.
Maybe even more then we can afford. :shock:

I visit with a friend a couple times a year and since we live about 500 miles apart we realize we aren't going to be doing the same thing but we can appreciate what the other is doing and why.

If running the Pinz/Char cross was so profitable why aren't you doing it now? OR are you and let us see some pictures as we are all interested in other operations. :-)
 
Big Muddy rancher said:
Nice thing about ranching we are free to make all the mistakes we can afford.
Maybe even more then we can afford. :shock:

I visit with a friend a couple times a year and since we live about 500 miles apart we realize we aren't going to be doing the same thing but we can appreciate what the other is doing and why.

If running the Pinz/Char cross was so profitable why aren't you doing it now? OR are you and let us see some pictures as we are all interested in other operations. :-)

Sold the cows when Dad broke his back. Hospitals aren't cheap, and he didn't have any insurance.
 
LazyWP said:
Big Muddy rancher said:
Nice thing about ranching we are free to make all the mistakes we can afford.
Maybe even more then we can afford. :shock:

I visit with a friend a couple times a year and since we live about 500 miles apart we realize we aren't going to be doing the same thing but we can appreciate what the other is doing and why.

If running the Pinz/Char cross was so profitable why aren't you doing it now? OR are you and let us see some pictures as we are all interested in other operations. :-)

Sold the cows when Dad broke his back. Hospitals aren't cheap, and he didn't have any insurance.

yeah, thats a sad deal and happens way to often, not tryin to hijack your thread but I wonder how many ranching families can afford insurance now.
Farm Bureau, {never could spell that word} has a policy that aint bad for major stuff like that, if I recall its a $5000 deductible, not too bad considering what docs/hospitals cost nowadays.
Good luck & Happy New Year to you and Lisa.
 
My wife works at the local school and with her only paying 1/2 the premium we went with the $5,000 per person per year deductible and our cost is still $500.00 per month!

We are both non drinkers, non smokers and she had a hysteractomy (sp) over 20 years ago - - - with Obama care the school is talking about dropping the insurance and paying the fine as it would be several hundred thousand dollars cheaper each year.

We have not gotton to the $5,000 yet ( I have my Veterans benifits ) so they have paid nothing for several years but I still want to be covered for the big expense.
 
George said:
My wife works at the local school and with her only paying 1/2 the premium we went with the $5,000 per person per year deductible and our cost is still $500.00 per month!

We are both non drinkers, non smokers and she had a hysteractomy (sp) over 20 years ago - - - with Obama care the school is talking about dropping the insurance and paying the fine as it would be several hundred thousand dollars cheaper each year.

We have not gotton to the $5,000 yet ( I have my Veterans benifits ) so they have paid nothing for several years but I still want to be covered for the big expense.

If memory serves me that was the premium at Farm Bureau $250 per person per month.
Happy New Year to you and yours.
 
For one thing, WP, I have had an interest in educating people about mineral.There is a lot of misconception out there about mineral.
For another, I don't make a dime talking about it on here. And I think
I have helped people understand a little more about it. As has loomixguy.
As far as I'm concerned we have made producers money...or they
wouldn't use either product. Being profitable is the name of the game.

Since you mentioned us, how about the leather work Lisa does? Chaps,
etc. I sure don't mind you telling us about those, showing pictures, etc.
So I think you are a bit off base calling out Loomix and Vigortone ...I know
loomixguy doesn't make anything unless he sells something in his area, nor do I. That was never the purpose of our posts. Now you, on the other hand, benefit directly when Lisa sells something anywhere in the world.
Lisa does a fine job, looks like to me, and so does Loomix and Vigortone.

You would be amazed at the PM's I've gotten over the years with more
questions, and/or appreciation and I'm sure Loomixguy has as well. As far as being 'fair game' we've both been here quite awhile and as far as I can remember, no one else has called us 'fair game' for providing information.

As far as cows weaning 50% of their weight, that is based on a 205 day
weight, not just actual weaning weight. I thought everyone knew that.
You couldn't calve in May and wean in Oct. and use the actual weaning weight to see what % a cow is producting. Just like you can't calve in Feb.and weigh the calves in Nov. and use that actual weaning weight as % of cow body weight.

Carry on.
 
Faster horses said:
For one thing, WP, I have had an interest in educating people about mineral.There is a lot of misconception out there about mineral.
For another, I don't make a dime talking about it on here. And I think
I have helped people understand a little more about it. As has loomixguy.
As far as I'm concerned we have made producers money...or they
wouldn't use either product. Being profitable is the name of the game.

Since you mentioned us, how about the leather work Lisa does? Chaps,
etc. I sure don't mind you telling us about those, showing pictures, etc.
So I think you are a bit off base calling out Loomix and Vigortone ...I know
loomixguy doesn't make anything unless he sells something in his area, nor do I. That was never the purpose of our posts. Now you, on the other hand, benefit directly when Lisa sells something anywhere in the world.
Lisa does a fine job, looks like to me, and so does Loomix and Vigortone.

You would be amazed at the PM's I've gotten over the years with more
questions, and/or appreciation and I'm sure Loomixguy has as well. As far as being 'fair game' we've both been here quite awhile and as far as I can remember, no one else has called us 'fair game' for providing information.

As far as cows weaning 50% of their weight, that is based on a 205 day
weight, not just actual weaning weight. I thought everyone knew that.
You couldn't calve in May and wean in Oct. and use the actual weaning weight to see what % a cow is producting. Just like you can't calve in Feb.and weigh the calves in Nov. and use that actual weaning weight as % of cow body weight.

Carry on.

I would say all 3 of yall have forth good information about good products, I caint acess Loomix or vigortone around here, but Im bettin its good considering the feed back i have read.
And I can tell you Lisa's leather Smithing skills are top knotch and priced fair, sure like the chinks she made me, big differnce in buyin store bought and having her get you exactly what you want.
good luck

PS and believe it or not I have known some good ranchers that never put out an ounce of mineral or a pound of feed.
And if you are set up like that {irrigated costal} and know what you are doing and or have a good source for alfalfa hopefully both like a couple of these old geezers, they seem to be doing alright, simply putting out salt/trace mineral blocks and back grounding on home grown feed and implants. Differnt than the way I do it for sure, I usually feed droughty hay that really aint worth testing and syrup, been doing it a long time.
This weather would straighten up a lil I would jump right back in, 2 bull calves i traded for early this year are getting bout ready to work just gotta get em tested, just need some h20.
 
Faster horses said:
For one thing, WP, I have had an interest in educating people about mineral.There is a lot of misconception out there about mineral.
For another, I don't make a dime talking about it on here. And I think
I have helped people understand a little more about it. As has loomixguy.
As far as I'm concerned we have made producers money...or they
wouldn't use either product. Being profitable is the name of the game.

Since you mentioned us, how about the leather work Lisa does? Chaps,
etc. I sure don't mind you telling us about those, showing pictures, etc.
So I think you are a bit off base calling out Loomix and Vigortone ...I know
loomixguy doesn't make anything unless he sells something in his area, nor do I. That was never the purpose of our posts. Now you, on the other hand, benefit directly when Lisa sells something anywhere in the world.
Lisa does a fine job, looks like to me, and so does Loomix and Vigortone.

You would be amazed at the PM's I've gotten over the years with more
questions, and/or appreciation and I'm sure Loomixguy has as well. As far as being 'fair game' we've both been here quite awhile and as far as I can remember, no one else has called us 'fair game' for providing information.

As far as cows weaning 50% of their weight, that is based on a 205 day
weight, not just actual weaning weight. I thought everyone knew that.
You couldn't calve in May and wean in Oct. and use the actual weaning weight to see what % a cow is producting. Just like you can't calve in Feb.and weigh the calves in Nov. and use that actual weaning weight as % of cow body weight.

Carry on.

:agree: :agree: :agree:

Well said, FH.

FWIW, WP, LOOMIX is always on the lookout for folks who would like to become a dealer. 1-800-870-0356.....ask for Bethany, she can get you to the right folks.

Had a call after dinner today from a 70+ year old guy, 45 miles from me, who wants me to come out and treat 5 bales of straw. :???: THAT will be a big money maker. Told him I would when I was in his area in a few days.... :help:
 
ANGUS327 said:
Havn't seen too many "registered" Pinzguar/Charlaois cross cows. :shock: :wink:

Im thinkin he meant the cows were registered as was the bull. Pinzguar bulls arent common around here, matter of fact Im not sure the ones I seen were Pinzguar, heavy Reds with some white ?
anyway the charlaois crossed with anything including Brahma very common in S Tx..................good luck
 
LazyWP

A few years ago, I told a young guy to quit worrying about the wrong things, learn how to keep things simple. Move the little cows out, you dont starve profit out of a cow. He had been AIing cows, doing a poor job, and his calving was spread out. Told him to guy a couple extra bulls, turn them out with the cows and pull them back in 8 weeks later.

Last week he called, just preg checked 120 out of 121 confirmed pg. 114 within the 1st 3 weeks. 19 heifers all pg, 18 within the 1st 3 weeks. Told me that his weaning weights were up 100 lbs per calf over 2 years ago when he quit using AI for real.

Because the cows are now profitable, instead of just a hobby using some marginal ground, he is doing a better job of managing the cowherd and its paying off in big dividends for him.

He also culled out the small frame cows over time and has had less problems with calving since he did that.

Note, he works off the farm apx 30 miles away.

adr
 
First off I need to apologize to both Faster Horses and Loomixguy. I called you both out because of your passion for the products you represent. I have never dealt with Loomix, but did interview with them about becoming a dealer many years ago. I DO believe they have a superior product. As for Vigortone, I think their mineral is good, and if all their reps are as knowledgeable as Faster Horses, they have an awesome service. That being said, do I think that both Loomix and Vigortone are the only products to use? NO, a person has to use what is available to them, and for their situation.
Our big cattle worked, because it was 30 years ago, and we were going straight to the feedlot, or to the few people that were interested in Pinzgauer cattle. Will big cattle work for everyone? NO!!

All I ask is that everyone keep an open mind when giving advice. Be honest with everyone, including yourself. Don't go wimpering off, because someone else doesn't agree with your comments. Shoot part of the time I disagree with myself, just as soon as I think about what I wrote.

As to the Pinzgauer/ Charolais cross, that were registered. Pinzgauer, at that time would register anything that was 75% or higher. The cows were registered as half bloods. The bulls we used were 100% Pinzgauer. The first one, I think was born in Austria, and came thru Canada. It was an interesting time, is about all I can say.
 
HAY MAKER said:
ANGUS327 said:
Havn't seen too many "registered" Pinzguar/Charlaois cross cows. :shock: :wink:

Im thinkin he meant the cows were registered as was the bull. Pinzguar bulls arent common around here, matter of fact Im not sure the ones I seen were Pinzguar, heavy Reds with some white ?
anyway the charlaois crossed with anything including Brahma very common in S Tx..................good luck

The Pinzgauer Association would register any thing that had 50% or more when we first got into the breed. As time went on, and they got more numbers, the percentage went up.
Pinzgauers are pretty obvious, white tails!! Normally deep dark red.
 
I agree with you WP, it's important to keep an open mind. The reason I like this site so much is because there are a lot of smart people out there that I can learn something from. I'll never forget the guidance and wisdom that Northern Rancher shared with me.

I'm sure I'm the May calving guy you were referring to. I used to calve in Feb and Mar and it got to be so much work that I got to thinking one late Mar night when it was 28 below zero and I was getting 30 calves a day that maybe my kids wouldn't want any part of what I was doing. Why would they? It was miserable but it was my choice to turn the bulls out in May. Then we would push our calves in the feedlot, get them weighing 800 pounds by Jan and then watch some young green calves bring within $100 a head as ours did at the sale barn. At that point my mind began to open up.

Some people reading this might be at the point I was 5 years ago. Maybe these words will help them realize there are other options out there. If they can't find help or are getting to the age where they can't calve cows in the winter anymore, but believe me you don't need to be old or unable to do the job to appreciate calving on grass.
 
Big Swede said:
I agree with you WP, it's important to keep an open mind. The reason I like this site so much is because there are a lot of smart people out there that I can learn something from. I'll never forget the guidance and wisdom that Northern Rancher shared with me.

I'm sure I'm the May calving guy you were referring to. I used to calve in Feb and Mar and it got to be so much work that I got to thinking one late Mar night when it was 28 below zero and I was getting 30 calves a day that maybe my kids wouldn't want any part of what I was doing. Why would they? It was miserable but it was my choice to turn the bulls out in May. Then we would push our calves in the feedlot, get them weighing 800 pounds by Jan and then watch some young green calves bring within $100 a head as ours did at the sale barn. At that point my mind began to open up.

Some people reading this might be at the point I was 5 years ago. Maybe these words will help them realize there are other options out there. If they can't find help or are getting to the age where they can't calve cows in the winter anymore, but believe me you don't need to be old or unable to do the job to appreciate calving on grass.

I think if I had my own grass, I would calve in May or June, but... and here we go again.....
 

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