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Faster horses said:
I wondered about Charolais, but didn't post it because I didn't know
about "Red Factor Charolais." Is that a purebred?

Interesting.
Click to expand...
i knew about it, but never would have guessed it :wink:
 
Purebred my a@#% - maybe in name because the breed Association decided to pimp it's standards to increase market share. :mad: :mad: :mad: This bull is obviously just another mongrel. This bull cannot posses the traits of a true Charolais because he isn't one - still his calves might be eligible for the Angus program :roll:
Below is a reminder of what a Charolais looks like.
Dakota.jpg
 
Purebred, not Full French. I am not sure the French have a 100% uncorrupted herdbook either.
NR - I thought you lived far enough north to know that the only way to produce those tan feeders was to mated a red CH bull to white CH cows. :D
There is a lot of demand for red CH in our area, but to each his own.
 
You can always tell a Scotchman-not much but you can always tell one.Some of the original French imports had a reddish tinge or even some red spots-Tee Anchor Aiglon was a good example of a Full French that had that. I worked for Bill Hunt at Flying Circle back in the early 80's-we had red Charolais cattle there that I know had never seen a Red Angus bull-Bill was one of the breeds founders in Canadfa and an astute old cowboy. Just a thought isn't the Luing a mongrel cross between Shorthorn and Highland??? The bull is a deep red but not necessarily from Red Angus-we ran Chars ourselves for 35 or so years so have a bit of an idea.
 
grassfarmer,

You posted a pic of a POLLED bull.

He got that way from the Polled Hereford or Angus/Red Angus in his background.

"True" Charolais are HORNED, barring a few new ones that are Polled in France. But, I don't know of any Fullblood Charolais in the US that significantly affected the herdbook here.

Did you forget that before you used him as your example?

Badlands
 
Maybe funny but not true - never heard of dehorning?
I agree with your point though Badlands - most polled cattle in horned breeds were got by upgrading although a few polled animals occur naturally in most breeds. I would suggest the number of these "muleys" is a lot less than most breed associations claim.

As to NR and his red Charolais - why were you getting so excited over your competitors misfortune in "pimping" Angus semen that left white faced calves? You could just call them "hereford factor" Angus and they would be as pure Angus as this bull is pure Charolais.

Maybe someone could explain to me what advantage or breeding situation demands a bull like this?
Seems to me it is time proven that if you take a Beckton type Red Angus breed it to NR's Lad horned hereford and breed the subsequent baldies to a genuine white Charolais bull you would get the product everyone wants - the tan calf. This uses the hybrid vigor where it should be used - in the crossbreeding part of the equation not in the alleged "purebred" animal.
 
Hellooo GrassFarmer the bull is PUREBRED-get that through your head-a big difference between marketing a good thick PUREBRED bull to customers to having a colossal screwup like Weder and his chronies and not dealing with it. I'm sure if this bull starts throwing calves that aren't PUREBRED Charolais on PUREBRED cows Genex will deal with it. Fortunately we have collection standards here something that New Zealand obviously doesn't.how in the world a stud could get semen from two bulls mixed in the same straw is beyond me. By the way that Charolais you posted has about the grossest back leg and hip structure I've seen in awhile. Now take a deep breath and say Purrrrrrrrrrebred in your best brogue lol. That red bull is probably two frame scores bigger than a Becton Red Angus but I guess an amateur geneticist can't tell thick from short. if you have proof that Red Charolais isn't pure-re A Red Angus bull in his pedigree I'll take it all back but I doubt I'll have to. It's time for you to 'Put up or shut up" as we colonials like to put it.
 
I don't think grassfarmer knows the difference between the words purebred and fullblood. Maybe something got lost in his Scottish to Canadian dictionary. :D
 
"I guess an amateur geneticist can't tell thick from short." Still full of yourself I see usual NR. Unfortunately being witty at a keyboard and selling semen off bulls other people breed don't make you a brilliant geneticist either.

It seems out here in "the colonies" the term purebred doesn't imply pure or purity. What percentage of charolais deems an animal to be a purebred? I'm pretty sure it's more than what this animal honestly contains.
"if you have proof that Red Charolais isn't pure-re A Red Angus bull in his pedigree I'll take it all back but I doubt I'll have to."
I won't waste my time researching his pedigree - I doubt folks intent on changing the color of their breeds would honestly record where their color change imports came from.
 
I rest my case-B........T walked just as I thought it would. I've never claimed to be a brilliant geneticist but i don't run my mouth about things I don't know about or can't prove-you might try that policy!!!!
 
As I said looking at what's written on the pedigree paper would be pointless - you can't prove if what's written is true or false.
If you are so sure of yourself maybe you could provide a picture and pedigree of any red charolais bull that has ever been recorded in France. Tough challenge because they don't exist.
 
Most Canadian associations of Continental breeds "record" 1/2 bloods that become "purebreds" at 15/16. They can never become "fullbloods". Fullbloods/Full French or other nomenclature all trace directly back on both sides of the pedigree to the original herdbook in the country of origin.
Upgrading was deemed as the best way to grow the breed population in the early years of importations and actually get to genetics into application in the industry (market driven).
Red charolais are designated with a "Q" prefix in their registration number and the first red Charolais Granada's Red Ace 17B (which created quite a stir) was extensively blood typed and DNA tested to ensure pedigree integrity.
Currently most breeds DNA PV embryos and fullblood cattle. LM for example have Parent verified every fullblood since movement into the country.
While I agree that accurate pedigree is very important and maintaining purebred populations is important, I don't think that purity necessarily trumps usefulness when it comes to industry.
 

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