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Orwigs Tubs

littlejoe, when you know the nutrition requirement of a cow and you know
the nutrition in your hay, and you run the pounds you feed, in Montana
in the winter, you will almost always be short of energy. And alfalfa isn't a
good source of energy. It's digested too fast. Ever fed cows alfalfa hay
and then the next day they look hollow and feed them grass hay that is
slower digested, and they still look full the next day? And depending
on the alfalfa hay by feeding it straight
alfalfa hay, you can be feeding double the protein requirement
and still be short on energy. We run alot of hay tests and this is
what we have found. 10% protein hay with no supplement will meet
the nutrition requirements of a range cow if you feed enough of it.

Alfalfa is a wonderful supplement, but as a sole feed it leaves a lot to
be desired. Alfalfa grass mix is great feed. We have customers who
supplement their winter grass with 10# of alfalfa and the cattle do real
well. They go out every other day or every third day and give the cows
20 or 30#. If you can feed what you raise, that's good. Not everyone
can or they want to supplement fall/winter grass. For those feeding
cows hay as the main feedstuff, they can do it with 10% grass hay.
And then of course, there is the ADF to consider.........which is very
important.......
 
Very well stated Faster Horses and I agree with your alfalfa and ADF comments. That is one of the reasons that crested wheatgrass at 10-12% protein makes a good mix to the winter ration in parts of Montana. Of course you have to have your baling equipment ready on time to maximize the value of the grass. Crested will usually decrease in TDN before the barley is ready, at least in my area.
 
Faster horses said:
littlejoe, when you know the nutrition requirement of a cow and you know
the nutrition in your hay, and you run the pounds you feed, in Montana
in the winter, you will almost always be short of energy. And alfalfa isn't a
good source of energy. It's digested too fast. Ever fed cows alfalfa hay
and then the next day they look hollow and feed them grass hay that is
slower digested, and they still look full the next day? And depending
on the alfalfa hay by feeding it straight
alfalfa hay, you can be feeding double the protein requirement
and still be short on energy. We run alot of hay tests and this is
what we have found. 10% protein hay with no supplement will meet
the nutrition requirements of a range cow if you feed enough of it.

Alfalfa is a wonderful supplement, but as a sole feed it leaves a lot to
be desired. Alfalfa grass mix is great feed. We have customers who
supplement their winter grass with 10# of alfalfa and the cattle do real
well. They go out every other day or every third day and give the cows
20 or 30#. If you can feed what you raise, that's good. Not everyone
can or they want to supplement fall/winter grass. For those feeding
cows hay as the main feedstuff, they can do it with 10% grass hay.
And then of course, there is the ADF to consider.........which is very
important.......
Click to expand...

i think you responded to my post w/o reading it.
 
Around here the huge dairies ( milking over 3,000 head three times a day, biggest one I know of had over 25,000 head ) keep a nutritionist on site.

As the temp goes down they start grinding straw into the ration to get the extra heat, as the temp goes lower the percentage of straw goes up! If the weather stays cold for several days the pounds of feed almost doubles as they still get the same amount of alfalfa, corn, dried distellers grain. minerals, etc. ( a typical ration will have 10 to 20 different ingredience ranging from 1,000# to several tons, all weighed as I put them in. And if the computer calls for 1,000# and I get 1,050 #the computer will recalculate and have me go back and get more of what I have already put in to keep the ration right ) just have to eat a lot more to get it. Every time I go to feed for the one close to me (3,000 head ) I get a different ration print out for each group each feeding.

The cattle are divided into groups of about 1,000 by the point in their annual cycle they are in. The highest producers are fed first but before I start feeding them I scrape up any left over feed they have weigh it and move it to the second group. Feed the first group then clean up from the second group and move to the third group. Feed a different ration to the second group and then clean up from the third group, this is stock piled and a local feedlot comes and purchases this and feeds it to their fattening cattle ( still a great feed ) then feed the third group.

These dairy cattle have all feed cleaned up and replaced three times a day and even with the biggest feed wagon I have ever seen and a 980 cat feeding it I need at least 4 to 5 hours to make one feeding. It takes less time in warm weather as they will eat as much as double the total pounds of feed in the coldest weather.

I keep my round bales of alfalfa separate from the grass hay. Cattle will go right for the alfalfa until it starts getting cold and they start eating more from the grass and less from alfalfa. I have found they will start eating the cornstalks baled for bedding when it gets colder as well.

I'm just glad I don't have to deal with the extremes some of you do. I'm sure both my cattle and I could adapt but I just don't want to!

As a fill in feeder at the dairy when needed I find it very interesting and love the job. But after about 3 days I'm ready for them to get back - - - -it gets very boring!

It's also a pain being almost the only one that speaks english. The owners are Dutch and while the kids have been born here and speak english very well they arn't around very much and most of the workers are first generation Mexican and speak very little or no english. I'm quite surprised that I have worked with some of them 15 or more years and they still have not learned english. I am assuming their children are able to speak english, dutch, and spanish and as they are starting to work in the dairy it makes my job easier. I guess I should make more of an effort to speak spanish but I work there about 10 days a year and it does not stick in this 63 year old brain.
 
littlejoe said:
Faster horses said:
littlejoe, when you know the nutrition requirement of a cow and you know
the nutrition in your hay, and you run the pounds you feed, in Montana
in the winter, you will almost always be short of energy. And alfalfa isn't a
good source of energy. It's digested too fast. Ever fed cows alfalfa hay
and then the next day they look hollow and feed them grass hay that is
slower digested, and they still look full the next day? And depending
on the alfalfa hay by feeding it straight
alfalfa hay, you can be feeding double the protein requirement
and still be short on energy. We run alot of hay tests and this is
what we have found. 10% protein hay with no supplement will meet
the nutrition requirements of a range cow if you feed enough of it.

Alfalfa is a wonderful supplement, but as a sole feed it leaves a lot to
be desired. Alfalfa grass mix is great feed. We have customers who
supplement their winter grass with 10# of alfalfa and the cattle do real
well. They go out every other day or every third day and give the cows
20 or 30#. If you can feed what you raise, that's good. Not everyone
can or they want to supplement fall/winter grass. For those feeding
cows hay as the main feedstuff, they can do it with 10% grass hay.
And then of course, there is the ADF to consider.........which is very
important.......
Click to expand...

i think you responded to my post w/o reading it.
Click to expand...

Oh, I read it alright. It's that I didn't read it accurately... :oops:
I just read it again, slowly this time. :oops: My apologies.
 
Roundup said:
The theory with NPN sources is that they are converted by ruminal flora to microbial protein, which in turn is digested by the cow for use as protein. Also, the increased microbes due to the NPN utilization aid in the digestion of feed which makes more nutrients available to the animal.

Many winter herds do not lack protein in their diet, but rather energy. This of course depends on diet, weather etc. The tendency in cold temps is to feed additional protein, when in reality the cow needs a food high in energy. Excess protein is lost in the urine and is costly to the producer.
Click to expand...

True and pretty much always the case. Amazing how many "complete feed" are loaded with fillers and low in energy. Feeding excess protein is literally "pi$$ing off your money". :wink: And a cow in negative energy balance will lose weight, drop milk production and have negative "end results" yet she often gets culled for our mistakes.
 
George said:
Around here the huge dairies ( milking over 3,000 head three times a day, biggest one I know of had over 25,000 head ) keep a nutritionist on site.

As the temp goes down they start grinding straw into the ration to get the extra heat, as the temp goes lower the percentage of straw goes up! If the weather stays cold for several days the pounds of feed almost doubles as they still get the same amount of alfalfa, corn, dried distellers grain. minerals, etc. ( a typical ration will have 10 to 20 different ingredience ranging from 1,000# to several tons, all weighed as I put them in. And if the computer calls for 1,000# and I get 1,050 #the computer will recalculate and have me go back and get more of what I have already put in to keep the ration right ) just have to eat a lot more to get it. Every time I go to feed for the one close to me (3,000 head ) I get a different ration print out for each group each feeding.

The cattle are divided into groups of about 1,000 by the point in their annual cycle they are in. The highest producers are fed first but before I start feeding them I scrape up any left over feed they have weigh it and move it to the second group. Feed the first group then clean up from the second group and move to the third group. Feed a different ration to the second group and then clean up from the third group, this is stock piled and a local feedlot comes and purchases this and feeds it to their fattening cattle ( still a great feed ) then feed the third group.

These dairy cattle have all feed cleaned up and replaced three times a day and even with the biggest feed wagon I have ever seen and a 980 cat feeding it I need at least 4 to 5 hours to make one feeding. It takes less time in warm weather as they will eat as much as double the total pounds of feed in the coldest weather.

I keep my round bales of alfalfa separate from the grass hay. Cattle will go right for the alfalfa until it starts getting cold and they start eating more from the grass and less from alfalfa. I have found they will start eating the cornstalks baled for bedding when it gets colder as well.

I'm just glad I don't have to deal with the extremes some of you do. I'm sure both my cattle and I could adapt but I just don't want to!

As a fill in feeder at the dairy when needed I find it very interesting and love the job. But after about 3 days I'm ready for them to get back - - - -it gets very boring!

It's also a pain being almost the only one that speaks english. The owners are Dutch and while the kids have been born here and speak english very well they arn't around very much and most of the workers are first generation Mexican and speak very little or no english. I'm quite surprised that I have worked with some of them 15 or more years and they still have not learned english. I am assuming their children are able to speak english, dutch, and spanish and as they are starting to work in the dairy it makes my job easier. I guess I should make more of an effort to speak spanish but I work there about 10 days a year and it does not stick in this 63 year old brain.
Click to expand...

Sounds like these guys are doing things right George. You want some feed refusal after each feeding but only a small amount. The nutritionist is worth his keep. :wink:
 

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