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Pharo Bulls

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post a link to this post on a page on FB got this back
"Bob Neese Thanks for that link Jody. Interesting. I read through a lot of the thread. Seems mostly opinionated folks with no knowledge of the subject they're trying to talk about!
Many opinions and much jealousy about Pharo from those who haven't enjoyed his success, so find it easiest to just dismiss him.
Kit Pharo has to be one of the most effective promoters and marketers out there. But, after about 20 years, if the cattle didn't do what he says they will, he probably wouldn't have ever growing success and so many repeat customers.
One of my friends is a cooperative producer for him. He began his herd with cows from my herd. He's sold bulls in Pharo's sale for twice as much as I can sell bulls for. More power to him.
I know Kit Pharo, and am in general agreement with his philosophy. But Kit is very turf protective and if one is not doing things his way and using his bulls, then you're just "a status quo producer".
If you check his Angus cows pedigrees you'll find that most of them originate with Tim Ohlde genetics. However, I've never heard him acknowledge or credit Ohlde with anything.
Pharo bulls often do last longer and breed more, but of course not all of them do. I got "defriended" from Kit and the PCC page, ultimately, because I was pointing out that I have bulls out there, working as long and hard for my customers as he does. It's not uncommon to find customers using my bulls until they're 10 or older.
I agree with Pharo that with the craze and push for performance, much has been sacrificed in terms of soundness, fertility, longevity. Many overfed bulls with excess scrotal fat cells, lack of libido and fertility, and feet that don't last.
I noted in the "bull session" group a couple were poo-pooing the fly resistance claims. An Arkansas researcher has determined a fairly high level of inheritability for rly resistance. In my own observations with my cattle, I am not surprised by that. There are some cattle that will always have the most flies and there will be some that have very few."https://www.facebook.com/jim.larson.965/posts/958957334123848?comment_id=959750767377838&notif_t=feed_comment_reply
 
I went to the pharo website as this kind of got my interest I hadn't been there for a long time. Once I was thinking about buying a bull there. First thing you see when you open page is flashing "Buy your bulls from someone who raises cattle the way you ought to". :roll:
That's the way to get new business. As I said before if he would try to raise his cattle here like he claims strictly grazing all year on native grass he would be broke from land interest or grass rent. That's fine if he can do it there but to tell everyone across the country that his way is the only right way is just idiotic.
 
I too have had friends that were Pharo co-operators, and that association didn't last long for
whatever reason.

I can tell you that after buying 4 bulls that weren't cheap, and having them delivered 100 miles
from home, (to a co-operators ranch where the truck was going anyway), that a buyer had to
pay another $400 delivery on the bulls. He questioned Kit about it as he was pretty hot about driving
100 miles and paying $400 for delivery. Especially since before attending the sale he brought up bringing a trailer along to haul the bulls home. Kit replied that they would find a ride for anything he bought.
After that happened it was in the catalog that "arrangements can be made for delivery."
This happened several years ago and I was present when it happened as one bull was ours.
 
A very wise man once told me "you don't buy the story, you buy the merchandise".

That delivery shenanigan would have not only soured me for life, but it's a wonder that someone wasn't soundly thrashed over it. I would have done business elsewhere, and stopped payment on the check if possible.
 
3 M L & C said:
I went to the pharo website as this kind of got my interest I hadn't been there for a long time. Once I was thinking about buying a bull there. First thing you see when you open page is flashing "Buy your bulls from someone who raises cattle the way you ought to". :roll:
That's the way to get new business. As I said before if he would try to raise his cattle here like he claims strictly grazing all year on native grass he would be broke from land interest or grass rent. That's fine if he can do it there but to tell everyone across the country that his way is the only right way is just idiotic.
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I've heard enough stories about the guy to know there's no way he will ever get a dollar from me. Never been much of a fan of people that use Christianity as a marketing ploy. There's a couple verses out there about those kind of people.

As far as year round grazing, you sure aren't going to do it in our part of the world on grass. There is too much other winter grazing to use to not utilize grass in the growing season.
 
The is absolutely nothing wrong with the way he runs cattle. The thing that is wrong is that he thinks he is the only one that utilizes pasture rotation or selects for low maintenance easy fleshing genetics or roughs out his cows during the winter. There have been plenty of people doing that already that aren't trying to get credit for inventing it and certainly don't care if maybe you run your cattle a little different. Belive me there are plenty of "status-quo" producers that have good cattle that don't weigh 1800 lbs or need a feed truck in front of them to make a living. And another thing I would never go to a bull sale that didn't feed you lunch or give you a break on bull delivery, ridiculous.
 
Picasso said: "students imitate, genius steals."

I wish all cow ranchers would consider how feeders and packers can break a market with heavy carcasses. 10% more beef in the chain will break prices, and when cowmen raise greater than frame 5 cattle, they enable feeders to raise those big carcasses that break the market.

I don't think I know any cowmen that want >1200# cows - that might be fs 6. But if someone wants to get in front of a parade and pretend he's a drum major, enjoy the show.
 
How are they for disposition? would you worry about disposition if you didnt take care of em. From what I here OCC cattle are so wild they would make EXT seem tame.
 
OCC Cattle are not wild in my experience's, many of mine also have EXT and Hobo. They are not what I would call mean in any way or wild. I expect a cow to protect its calf and these cattle have a mothering instinct that is functional. I haven't had any grind there calves into the ground because they are stupid either, but then I calve them in the brush and rarely see one born. OCC cattle are not for every environment and they have been tweaked here to fit what I do. What ever line you end up with you have to make it your own in the end.
 
W.T said:
OCC Cattle are not wild in my experience's, many of mine also have EXT and Hobo. They are not what I would call mean in any way or wild. I expect a cow to protect its calf and these cattle have a mothering instinct that is functional. I haven't had any grind there calves into the ground because they are stupid either, but then I calve them in the brush and rarely see one born. OCC cattle are not for every environment and they have been tweaked here to fit what I do. What ever line you end up with you have to make it your own in the end.
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I would second this we have used OCC bred cattle for a long time and don't have any disposition issues. You're not going to walk up unprotected and mess with a calf without mom taking issue with what you're doing.
 
Cattle here are not pets, that said I don't look to pet them as they were, but when I feed in the winter and they calve in early spring I can walk threw them with never a issue, the bulls get up and keep there distance as they should, and so do the cows and in return I keep mine. being a stockman is about mutual respect, they have there's and in return I have mine. It really is that simple. I will call these cattle intelligent, as they should be coyotes don't get there calves. But on the other hand you as the stockman have to use some intelligence as well.
 
W.T said:
Cattle here are not pets, that said I don't look to pet them as they were, but when I feed in the winter and they calve in early spring I can walk threw them with never a issue, the bulls get up and keep there distance as they should, and so do the cows and in return I keep mine. being a stockman is about mutual respect, they have there's and in return I have mine. It really is that simple. I will call these cattle intelligent, as they should be coyotes don't get there calves. But on the other hand you as the stockman have to use some intelligence as well.
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You mean you don't go out and pet your bulls :wink:

That to me is the dumbest thing anyone can do try and make a pet out of a 1 ton hormone drven animal those that do should watch a pair of ton bulls duke it out they are quick on thier feet and if they so choose to snap at the person lacking common sense the end result will be bad
 
Huge discussion on another board I am a member of. Never never try to make a pet out of a bull. Irritates me to no end when these magazines and papers have people petting bulls on the cover. How many kids see that? Kids miss NOTHING....
 
Wasn't northern rancher of a mind that the only cure for EXT bloodlines was a swift death? I seem to remember his posts about EXT bloodlines were less than complementary.
 
loomixguy said:
Wasn't northern rancher of a mind that the only cure for EXT bloodlines was a swift death? I seem to remember his posts about EXT bloodlines were less than complementary.
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Yeah well he was fond of breeding mares also :dunce: .
 
I've found this thread interesting. I'm going to post a link to another discussion about the Pharo cattle on another forum I visit. I know some men who were raised in that area and also others from that area. What I'm told is he doesn't practice what he preaches which can also be seen in comments in the link I'll attach. Another question mark for me is he has been promoting his cattle for years and I know of no one that is using his genetics in this area anymore. I asked a coworker who cowboys on the side in SE CO if he has seen any when helping ranchers and he said not any now. Those that used them in the past have moved on to other genetics.http://www.herefordtalk.com/thread/2510/where-headed?page=2
 

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