Prairie Dogs and Tony Dean

[Red Robin]

Well you are wrong once again red robin, I dont like rattlesnakes, rats, other vermine, I really dont like p. dogs but they deserve a place in this world. and not every living thing, proplr, lives revolve around you poor ranchers.....

? Do you mean all living things or not?

 

[publichunter]

No I dont think a living virus that is harmful to mankind or manmade deserves to live.

 

[Red Robin]

How about bacteria that is harmful to man?

 

[Liberty Belle]

publichunter: There is nothing wrong with Conata Basin that rain would not take care of

Rain kills prairie dogs? :shock: Really! :shock:

Too bad we don't get more of the wet stuff out here.

publichunter: LB if I cant reead it appears you cant write, I dont exaterate I have been to many public meetings where the producers testifying say that the weeds a pdogs come off of public lands.
LB I am much more of a open thinker that you are living in your little rancher world in Harding Co.

You are certainly entitled to your almost incoherent opinions, but having such an open mind as you do, don't you worry about your brain falling out through those holes in your head? :roll:

Or is it, as most of us reading these posts of yours fear, much too late to worry about that? :???:

 

[kolanuraven]

And what do we need black footed ferrets for anyway?[/b]

...and while we're at it. Why do we need bluebirds? They don't do us any good, off with their tiny feathered heads I say!!!!!


Who needs to worry about 4 legged predators when there seem to be plenty of 2 legged ones about. :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

 

[passin thru]

Who needs to worry about 4 legged predators when there seem to be plenty of 2 legged ones about.

 

[SJ]

I have been reading along on this thread and I have more questions than answers?

Is this rarest mammal (ferret) on the earth the one that went extinct and was reintroduced?

Isn't Science like everything else in the world there are two sides to every story?

What do the 57% of the South Dakotans, who believe prairie dogs deserve protection, do for a living and where do they live? Where does this poll come from?

If these little critters have intensified over these years of drought and have had the hardship of having to expand their range in conflict with the rancher's livelihood, wouldn't it be less of a hardship for the rare ferret to live in the cities where short grass and water is abundant and they wouldn't conflict with people's livelihood?

I don't have a problem with people selling out to Nature Conservancy, that is their right, but I can't help but wonder why the agreements are made for perpetuity instead of 20 years or less.

Nothing is forever, if something is a good deal it will be continued without perpetuity being in the contract.

Tony Dean Statement; Course, some public land grazers don't like Dan because he also conducted research that confirmed that cattle gain weight at the same rate, or slightly faster, when grazing on prairie dog towns.
Where did he do this study? How many acres were in this prairie dog town that he fenced out? How many cows did he have in this area? How long did he keep them on this fenced out prairie dog town? What was the rainfall in this area?
If cattle had the same rate, or a slightly faster rate of gain when grazing on a prairie dog town common sense would tell me landowners would not be complaining about the prairie dog/ rare ferret.

Tony Dean Statement; "Instead of the hand wringing and hard feelings, wouldn't it be better to learn to live with the prairie dogs?"
I would have to agree with this statement. Learn to live with the prairie dog". These conservation people shouldn't be wringing their hands and have hard feelings toward these few ranchers, whose livelihood is grazing.
They could have the prairie dog/ferret introduced into the city, where short grass is abundant, rainfall is not a concern as water is available, and the financial benefit, of not having to mow city parks, private lawns or covering land with asphalt for parking lots etc. would be substantial.

As Tony dean stated, Dan said the holes seem to be no problem as he was unable to validate any broken legs on cows or horses because of prairie dog holes.

I can't see the prairie dog/ ferret holes being a problem for the vast amount of humans in the cities.
From my observation the holes are extremely visible on a prairie dog/ferret town. If a person were to step in the hole and break a leg, I believe just good old common sense would find the human at fault and no fault of the dog/ferret. Besides wouldn't it be worse to have a collapsed arch than a few broken legs?

Oops I forgot about disease (the plague carried by the prairie dog) you don't have to worry about it, I read a report/study by some successful "award winning person" speaking about the plague.
The report/study had to do with the city of Boulder, Colorado and some college students. I think they were experimenting with a birth control for prairie dogs. It had something to do with some kind of protection.
If I remember right at least one student died and maybe a few more got very sick from handling the prairie dogs.

One dying and a few getting very sick would fall within the guidelines
of being acceptable in most cities as long as it wasn't your child? It at least seems acceptable for the protection of the rare mammal and the guarantee the arch will hold up.

"Truth is" (The Deans favorite intro) I don't have any credentials or awards and not much money.
I am just me, happy as a clam at high tide, with happiness being my measurement of success.

 

[kolanuraven]

It's a pretty arrogant mind set to basically say, " well if it doesn't make me any money....it's useless".

PT: Nice try but off base and wrong forum

 

[passin thru]

PT: Nice try but off base and wrong forum

Bingo................funny you didn't notice when you did it and only when I showed what you did............

...and while we're at it. Why do we need bluebirds? They don't do us any good, off with their tiny feathered heads I say!!!!!
Who needs to worry about 4 legged predators when there seem to be plenty of 2 legged ones about.

 

[Liberty Belle]

Kola: and while we're at it. Why do we need bluebirds? They don't do us any good, off with their tiny feathered heads I say!!!!!

If the price of having bluebirds was having grazing decimated by prairie dogs as their food source, I'd be all for offing their darling little feathered heads.

Kola: It's a pretty arrogant mind set to basically say, " well if it doesn't make me any money....it's useless".

You said it, I didn't. Reading your posts through the years I've noticed that money means a lot to you, doesn't it?

I have nothing against ferrets. Our kids had a pet ferret for years and the little weasel and I got along fine as long as he wasn't allowed in the chicken coop, although Frank was just a regular ferret, not the elite black-footed kind.

We also had a pet prairie dog that lived behind my kitchen range and sat on my lap at night to watch TV. My boys had been shooting prairie dogs on our dog town and must have just grazed this one because when they went to count their kill, Pete got up and staggered off, so they brought him home to Mom. I let him out in the yard to play one day and a cat got him. Believe this or not, but I missed Pete more than anyone.

Yes, I like the little creatures personally, but as a rancher, I have a huge problem with the government putting ranching families at risk just to supply a feed source to a ferret, endangered or not. Protecting the spotted owl put the timber industry out of business, and don't even try to tell us that protecting the prairie dogs and black-footed ferrets won't do the same thing to ranchers because in some cases it's already happened.

If you folks want black-footed ferrets, then YOU raise them yourselves as pets and leave those of us trying to make a living off the land alone. However, I strongly recommend that you don't try keeping ferrets and prairie dogs at the same time! 8)

passin thru, that is soooo scary! I'm gonna have nightmares now and it's all your fault! :shock:

Got some good questions there SJ!! I'll be waiting with baited breath for some answers from these guys. :twisted:

 

[publichunter]

Looks like to me the public has chosen to raise P.dogs and ferrets on their land. Isnt Conata BAsin the public's land? Maybe you are all to scared to think about it but maybe the public's land use is changing? Maybe ranching isnt going to be as high of a priority as it has been in the past 75 years.
Does the public owe a ranching family a living on public land? I dont think so.

 

[SJ]

Publichunter==Does the public owe a ranching family a living on public land? I dont think so.

No-- and they don't.

 

[Liberty Belle]

Looks like to me the public has chosen to raise P.dogs and ferrets on their land. Isnt Conata BAsin the public's land?

Yes, and, lest you forget, I am also a member of the public.

Maybe you are all to scared to think about it but maybe the public's land use is changing? Maybe ranching isnt going to be as high of a priority as it has been in the past 75 years.

It isn't the public that is changing the land use, it's "environmentalists", and I use the term loosely, that are destroying the public's land with their wacky policies.

If you've ever seen what they have done to Conata Basin, you would be able to see that these aren't environmentalists, but eco-terrorists. The policies they push, that the government implements for them, has turned the Basin into what looks like the surface of the moon. This is caring for the land? No way!

Does the public owe a ranching family a living on public land? I dont think so.

No one owes anyone a living. We also don't owe the wackos protecting the prairie dogs and the black-footed ferrets a free ride at taxpayer's expense.

If you want them, you raise them and quit using MY tax money to do it. I shouldn't have to pay for your idiotic and destructive programs with my tax money while it destroys what is also my public land.

Why are you trying to change the subject anyway? Is it because you can't answer SJ's questions? Go ahead. Take a stab at it. You might be able to come up with something… :???:

 

[publichunter]

No the ferret was not extinct that means none are left it was about extinct.
Science is in the eye of the beholder and what you want to make out of the scientific data.
What does it matter that the 57% do for a living, they are part of the public,I would bet they live in the city if you call rapid and SF cities, the poll comes from the people who pay for it.
lawn grass is far from the prairie isnt it, I dont think fwerrets or p dogs could live on Kentuckey Blue.
why would anyone pay a good price for something only protected for 20 years? Perpetuity is suppose to be for ever.
Why dont you ask Dan Ursk for his study, I am sure it has been published and has passed peer review.

LB
wether you like it or not environmentialists are part of the public just as ranchers are. They are only wacky practices because you dont beeive in them or agree with them.
The lack of moisture, grazing and P dogs all played a part in the current Conata Basin landscape.

And as always LB you always personnally atack someone who doesnt see things thru your rozy glasses.

 

[kolanuraven]

[You said it, I didn't. Reading your posts through the years I've noticed that money means a lot to you, doesn't it?



You damned straight on that one!!!! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[passin thru]

Tony Dean Statement; Course, some public land grazers don't like Dan because he also conducted research that confirmed that cattle gain weight at the same rate, or slightly faster, when grazing on prairie dog towns.

Where did he do this study? How many acres were in this prairie dog town that he fenced out? How many cows did he have in this area? How long did he keep them on this fenced out prairie dog town? What was the rainfall in this area?
If cattle had the same rate, or a slightly faster rate of gain when grazing on a prairie dog town common sense would tell me landowners would not be complaining about the prairie dog/ rare ferret.

I am still waiting for the answer to SJ's question

 

[publichunter]

PT as i said in my previous post, I am sure the study if it really means that much to you is published, why dont you try to google it? or better yet call Dan on Monday and ask huim for a copy, I am sure he would be happy to give you one, then you would have all the answers to the questions.

 

[SJ]

Publichunter-No the ferret was not extinct that means none are left it was about extinct.

Oh. If they were about extinct what change was made to make them rise from about extinction and survive? It wasn't because the prairie dog was extinct or even close to extinction. Do you think that a sturdier critter came across on a plane or boat better bred for the conditions? Were these about extinct critters raised in captivity and then reintroduced to the wild? Now are they wildlife or domesticated life?

[quotePublichunter-Science is in the eye of the beholder and what you want to make out of the scientific data.

Exactly.

Publichunter-What does it matter that the 57% do for a living, they are part of the public,I would bet they live in the city if you call rapid and SF cities, the poll comes from the people who pay for it.

Pay for what? If you mean pay for the poll. I am sure they got what they paid for, I know when I pay for something I usually get what I want. When you read a poll don't you care how it was done, who was polled etc.? I'll bet when something comes to a vote and they give all the statistic and facts you check some of them before you just vote yes or maybe not.
Why do they alway ask the Pols, why don't they ask the Spanish or English?LOL

Publichunter-lawn grass is far from the prairie isnt it, I dont think fwerrets or p dogs could live on Kentuckey Blue.

I suppose they could adapt to a higher standard of eating, a lot of other wildlife has adapted to city life.

publichunter-why would anyone pay a good price for something only protected for 20 years? Perpetuity is suppose to be for ever.

I said, if you reread my post that I had no problem with people selling out for perpetuity that is their choice and their right. I wouldn't because I don't believe the future generation (your children and mine) are incompetent or that my generation is superior. In the same token if Nature conservancy was such a good deal without any hidden agenda there would be no need for the word perpetuity.

publichunter--Why dont you ask Dan Ursk for his study, I am sure it has been published and has passed peer review.

You are right. I kind of like reading something for my self and making my own opinion before just taking a peer reviews opinion as one without bias. I just figured by your response you had read the report and could answer some of the questions. Evidently you haven't read it either. No one has taken my mind or ability to read away yet, I will try to get it and read it.

 

[publichunter]

They were almost made extinct by the use of different poisens that have since been banned by the govt because of their secondarily poison properties. The ferrets in the Canata basin are still wild ferrets and were not or never were raised in captivity.
Do you think polls are free of cost, I bet R-calf or the Stockgrowers pay for polls.
Because pols are dumb enough to answer.....
Why would the NC pay for something if it wasnt in perpituity, who knows what or who will be head of it in 20 years. It is pure and simple to protect it how it is today.

 

[jodywy]

They were almost made extinct by the use of different poisens that have since been banned by the govt because of their secondarily poison properties. The ferrets in the Canata basin are still wild ferrets and were not or never were raised in captivity.
Do you think polls are free of cost, I bet R-calf or the Stockgrowers pay for polls.
Because pols are dumb enough to answer.....
Why would the NC pay for something if it wasnt in perpituity, who knows what or who will be head of it in 20 years. It is pure and simple to protect it how it is today.

What I understand is all the blackfooted ferrets came from the Pitchfork ranch in Wyoming and were repopulated from a captive program at UW and CSU, So all wild ferrets came from captive ferrets use to build up the population