Question about mandatory ID
- Thread starter Saddletramp
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Sandhusker
Well-known member
Jason said:
How can an enforceable law be made by somebody other than the government? If you're in voilation, who gets the fine poceeds? What if the producer refused to pay the fine?
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Anonymous
Guest
I sit here in absolute amazement of the stupidity that you display with virtually every post you make Conman. Either you are lying, being deceptive, or being stupid. I don't know which drives you the most.
Canada's ID program helped them to deal with the BSE situation. They were able to trace their BSE positives back and immediately corrall the situation. THEY HELD CANADIAN CONSUMER CONFIDENCE IN THEIR PRODUCT due to their ID program.
What's not to emulate?
We had 2 cases of BSE discovered in the U.S. Conman but we didn't have an ID program to trace it as thoroughly as Canada. BSE in Canada was not compounded by their ID program, IT WAS HELPED BY THEIR ID PROGRAM.
How stupid can you be?
Once again, you show the world what a complete idiot you are by opening your mouth up about something you don't even understand. You're ignorance runs so shallow that it won't even allow you to recognize your ignorance. You truly are a sad case Conman.
~SH~
~SH~ said:
BSE should have been stopped before it cost so much to the producers. Using downer cattle in MBM to be fed back to cattle was probably much of the problem. Cattle are herbavors. Having to have an id program because the USDA vets or FDA or whoever could not stop this from happening hurt the cattle producers. It is a short run gain (cutting untested diseased cattle and selling them) for a long term hurt.
Pretty bad Return on Investment.
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Anonymous
Guest
YA THINK??????????????????
Why is that a reason not to emulate Canada's ID system?
I bet Canadian producers are relieved to know they have you out there to give them such a vivid hindsight perception of the problem. LOL!
Your arrogance is truly amazing.
~SH~
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Anonymous
Guest
I just love reading some of these posts--The "no government" people (SH,MRJ,BMR, Jason) scream like crazy when you talk about mandatory COOL, mandatory price reporting, even enforcing the laws on the books when it comes to Packers/retailers- Even go so far as to support the fraud of Packers/retailers removing labeling from packages and relabeling to pass off to consumers as a product of another country....
BUT
When the rule or law is on the producer they think its great- even back the idea of government camouflaging it as "producer driven", knowing that they are mandating it on the producer....
Much of the mandatory ID was pushed after 9/11 as a needed defense against bioterrorism...There was even a strong belief that much of the set up and initial cost could be funded thru Homeland Security, which has doled out $billions to some of the stupidist projects you could find--BUT no- NCBA said we don't want the government funding it and mandating it- we'll do it...
So
What do we have now- NCBA and their self appointed consortium (more NCBA members) setting up an ID program which government has set all the guidelines on- and plans to legislate into law...Now tell me that isn't mandated :???: But now since it is "producer driven" the government says their is no available money for the producers to take up the cost- the producer can pay it all- we'll give that Homeland Security funds to New Orleans or San Francisco to train their cops to be more sympathetic...
Only ones that will make money again is NCBA- same as they supposedly make nothing off the checkoff :wink: :lol: :lol:
BUT
When the rule or law is on the producer they think its great- even back the idea of government camouflaging it as "producer driven", knowing that they are mandating it on the producer....
Much of the mandatory ID was pushed after 9/11 as a needed defense against bioterrorism...There was even a strong belief that much of the set up and initial cost could be funded thru Homeland Security, which has doled out $billions to some of the stupidist projects you could find--BUT no- NCBA said we don't want the government funding it and mandating it- we'll do it...
So
What do we have now- NCBA and their self appointed consortium (more NCBA members) setting up an ID program which government has set all the guidelines on- and plans to legislate into law...Now tell me that isn't mandated :???: But now since it is "producer driven" the government says their is no available money for the producers to take up the cost- the producer can pay it all- we'll give that Homeland Security funds to New Orleans or San Francisco to train their cops to be more sympathetic...
Only ones that will make money again is NCBA- same as they supposedly make nothing off the checkoff :wink: :lol: :lol:
mwj
Well-known member
Oldtimer how much do you estimate that ncba will make off of this? Are you saying that there will be no gov. or hs money used? Also taxmoney comes out of our pockets also so don't act like it is free.
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Anonymous
Guest
mwj said:
When I first started as Sheriff I stood on priciple and refused to take grants and federal dole outs- so I watched the neighboring counties get my share too and build their departments, while we actually had more need- and the citizens in my county suffered because of "my principle" --finally wised up......Like I say if you don't take it for something worthwhile- Don't worry it will be spent somewhere- Maybe a new terrorist security system for the museum of modern arts :wink:
mwj
Well-known member
Oldtimer you sound like the conservatives that are in charge in DC. Listened to the speaker of the house on the radio this am. He made a big deal about how they ''cut'' the hwy bill. They only spent %100 of the projected revenue instead of %110 :roll:
Oldtimer said:I just love reading some of these posts--The "no government" people (SH,MRJ,BMR, Jason) scream like crazy when you talk about mandatory COOL, mandatory price reporting, even enforcing the laws on the books when it comes to Packers/retailers- Even go so far as to support the fraud of Packers/retailers removing labeling from packages and relabeling to pass off to consumers as a product of another country....
BUT
When the rule or law is on the producer they think its great- even back the idea of government camouflaging it as "producer driven", knowing that they are mandating it on the producer....
Much of the mandatory ID was pushed after 9/11 as a needed defense against bioterrorism...There was even a strong belief that much of the set up and initial cost could be funded thru Homeland Security, which has doled out $billions to some of the stupidist projects you could find--BUT no- NCBA said we don't want the government funding it and mandating it- we'll do it...
So
What do we have now- NCBA and their self appointed consortium (more NCBA members) setting up an ID program which government has set all the guidelines on- and plans to legislate into law...Now tell me that isn't mandated :???: But now since it is "producer driven" the government says their is no available money for the producers to take up the cost- the producer can pay it all- we'll give that Homeland Security funds to New Orleans or San Francisco to train their cops to be more sympathetic...
Only ones that will make money again is NCBA- same as they supposedly make nothing off the checkoff :wink: :lol: :lol:
OT, you are so predictable......
Not all laws are good ones. The best that can be said for COOL is that it got passed. Never mind that consumers are deceived by the implication that ALL imported beef might be unsafe, and that ALL domestic beef is safe. Mandatory Price Reporting was dramatically under-used by people requesting such information. They were better served by private sources.
You never have presented any facts to support your contention about Packers and labeling of imported beef. Is there a law broken? I doubt it. Does it happen like you say? I really doubt that!
Some laws are needed and some are necessary. One of your favorite programs, brand inspection, for instance. Isn't that a producer driven, in some states producer administered law, "mandated on" the producer? Heck, here in SD, the Stockgrowers benefit very nicely from their profits on running the system. Nothing in the law to require them to be held to a cost recovery only basis for brand inspection. One you obviously do not like in the Beef Checkoff......a very large number of cattlemen went to Congress to ask for the law creating it. Very nearly 80% of legitimate cattle producers voted it in, nationwide. Still producer controlled and administered, with USDA oversight to assure absolute compliance with the
law. A very good and beneficial law cattlemen voted onto themselves!
You owe us ranchers.net readers documention of your claims against NCBA. Your tiresome old drivel about your fantasies of NCBA getting rich off the checkoff, with never a shred of proof, reveal a lot about your character, none of it good.
MRJ
PORKER
Well-known member
STUB,I agree with Clarence. The ID stops at the kill floor. USDA wants to know which pasture the critter is born, where it is fed & how. When the consumer looks over the meat case, we don't know even what Country the meat is from!
When I buy an apple it is labeled where it was grown and what kind it is.
Not unless you have this private company running your database.
; http://www.scoringag.com/Public/docs/smartphones_en.pdf
When I buy an apple it is labeled where it was grown and what kind it is.
Not unless you have this private company running your database.
; http://www.scoringag.com/Public/docs/smartphones_en.pdf
~SH~ said:
Allowing Creekstone to test would have been a better return on investment than the one you suggest, SH. You are only interested in ROI for packers you want to support.
We need to look at the Canadian situation to not repeat it. BSE can not be ignored, or hidden. It must be dealt with, even if a downer can not be sold. Your stance on Creekstone already shows your hindsight problems. Japan will not be forced into anything they don't want to do. You can't make customers buy your wares, you have to sell them. Creekstone sold and USDA said, no, we know better how to do this. Johanns wants to maintain control of the BSE test and results. The Japanese don't really believe him so they start the games again. The USDA deal wasn't sold, it was forced. That is a short term gain for long term problems.
Why not let the Japanese contract with a company in the U.S. they trust instead of packers that they do not trust. Why must we tilt everything towards big packer interests? It has halted the Japanese market again.
Big Muddy rancher
Well-known member
Good points Maxine. Brand inspection is a fine example of the way our tagging system works. Yes we have enforcement with laws but it is much better to be proactive and have industry set policy then have it forced on us by government.
We are at that point almost with the Alberta government wanting to make age verification mandatory and the SSGA passed a resolution supporting the CCIA in maintaining their policy of voluntary age verification. :cowboy:
We are at that point almost with the Alberta government wanting to make age verification mandatory and the SSGA passed a resolution supporting the CCIA in maintaining their policy of voluntary age verification. :cowboy:
PORKER
Well-known member
We are at that point almost with the Alberta government wanting to make age verification mandatory.******They are going to be locked out of just about every beef market within 6 months.
the SSGA passed a resolution supporting the CCIA in maintaining their policy of voluntary age verification.****** You will never make it to the EU. with hamburger.
the SSGA passed a resolution supporting the CCIA in maintaining their policy of voluntary age verification.****** You will never make it to the EU. with hamburger.
Big Muddy rancher
Well-known member
PORKER said:
Why will be locked out of just about every beef market in 6 months?
We haven't sold hamburger to Europe for a long time. And we probably won't because how could we age verifiy cows that have age on them that we can't tell.
Guess having the market drive change won't work. We will have to be more like the US and have government mandate everything. Ha
PORKER
Well-known member
Have you check their Teeth?,Ha Ha Ha
Big Muddy rancher
Well-known member
PORKER said:
Checking teeth will tell some tales but not the whole truth. What if they have lost them all.
We still can check for OTM by dentition but a registered birth date trumps it.
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Anonymous
Guest
Big Muddy rancher said:
How old are those contraband cattle you have - that you don't even have an idea where they came from- except you know they were and /or found out they were (?) ILLEGALLY brought in to the Canadian herd from the US herd? :???:
Canadas supposed miracle ID system is a Joke--We have had the same or better ID system in parts of the US with hot iron brands and tagging for years!! Montanas brand registration goes back to the 1800's....
How about you Big Muddy? Apparently you can't tell me where anything came from :wink: :lol: Do you even remember when those cows were illegally brought into your herd?
Maxine- Like I told Soapweed- anyone that can actively support a situation where someone/anyone can import a cheap product (beef), purposely and knowingly remove and/or change the labeling and pass it off to unwitting consumers as something other than it is, and purport it to be from a country other than it is from, is not someone I want to do business with--Definitely glad I'm not tied into your banking ownership...
Took 55 years, but I owe nothing to the banking system anymore- so I don't have to suck up to anyone anymore like you .........
DiamondSCattleCo
Well-known member
Oldtimer said:
Just out of curiosity, how are certain states versions of traceback better than the Canadian version?
By the way, not all US cattle are branded. As far as I know, branding is not required by law in all states (please correct me if I'm wrong), but I just looked at 2 US Shorthorn bulls who were imported from the US years ago, and they don't have a solitary brand on them.
We've also got brand registrations. Thankfully our brand books contain all the the brands from all the provinces, not just a single province.
As far as the tagging system goes, as a producer, I was told by the Canadian Cattleman's Association (which is not a gov't formed institution) that we were going to be in need of a traceback system that was as good as the best in the world to ensure our export markets remained safe. We had an opportunity to build our own, without interference from the government, so we, as producers, did it. We presented the government with what we did, and the government made it law. Thats the way gov't is supposed to work, and it finally did something right. As a plain old grassroots producer, I believe that the cattle ID program was a good thing for all of Canada, despite the belly aching of a few old timers who didn't want to tag their animals.
Rod
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Anonymous
Guest
DiamondSCattleCo said:
Must be better than yours- Tam can't even tell where her illegal US cows came from- probably don't even know how old they are :wink: :lol: .....
Rod- I'm not against an ID system- in fact I like the idea--Mine have been individually and herd identified since the 60's- with records going back well into the 40's, along with a hot iron brand, to identify them when the eartag drops out...The fact that I'm against is that the government has mandated it- written up all the rules and implementation dates- then told NCBA, a political action group which is not representative of even close to a 1/4 of the cattle industry to implement it--which is now trying to sell it off to people as a "producer driven" system- just so they can sit back and profit off it again the same as they are doing with the Beef checkoff which they got legislated so they "only" can control, contract with, or operate...
And NCBA and the USDA have left hundreds of questions unanswered.......
