Question for you folks in the really cold country?

[Grassfarmer]

Ab Ag did a study on this. Unrolled hay had 12.1% losses when fed on snow, processed was at 19.2%. The biggest difference was that the processed hay lost a lot of quality, since most of the losses were fines.
Basically the only way I can understand it properly is...
If you fed 180 1300# bales you lost
23.1 bales of weight and 31.6 bales of nutrients by unrolling on snow - have to feed 211.6 bales
34.5 bales of weight and 51.5 bales of nutrients by grinding onto snow - have to feed 231.5 bales
The cheapest method counting for feed loss/labour/etc. was unrolling onto snow. They figured out that portable bunks (very basic) dropped the losses to nearly 0 and saved $28 per heifer over a 175 day feeding period. The feeders they designed are just two foot high pipe rectangles with lumber sides and were fit for about 40 head and were paid for in feed savings in 48 days. If you are going to shred, shred into troughs was the message.
They did some work on feeding pit silage on snow as well.

The disadvantage of bunks is that you can't let the cows spread their own manure. By feeding in a different area each day, unrolling the hay on the ground, there is no manure that needs to be hauled.

Another advantage of rolling hay out is the wind factor, of which there is plenty in this country. The wind really blows away a lot of hay chopped through a processor.

Why can't your cows spread their own manure if you feed in bunks? With portable bunks that RSL mentioned you can have all the advantages of manure distribution while limiting waste. We feed silage in bunks and hay/straw in ring feeders and move them every couple of days.

We just came through a pretty cold spell, even by our standards. Our cows walked a half mile every day to graze corn, and even minus 30 with a wind didn't stop them. They have access to a sheltered corral that has a good straw pack built up to sleep on at night, and were totally happy to get up in the morning and make the hike back to the corn.

We don't have a processor for the same reason we don't make silage for the cows out of our corn. We're too cheap (or is it broke :? ) to pay for the extra fuel and equipment when the cows are perfectly capable of going and getting their own feed. Long hay, even if there is some waste, makes more sense to us. I don't think the waste is quite as high as the wind can create in cut hay. And boy, do we get wind. One day last week Hubby broke a straw bale for bedding, and half of it blew away as soon as the twine was cut. I bet a processor would have lost everything in that wind. :shock:

So for us, the less money we spend processing feed, the better. The cows are pretty good at doing it themselves.

As you are always looking for ways to do things cheaper have you considered using windbreaks out in the field to replace your bedding pack for the part of the winter before your cows calf at least? Our cows are happy to bed down in the snow with windbreak protection when it's really cold. That way there is no manure to haul. We bought most of our windbreaks under the Environmental Farm Plan program. We got paid to fence off treed areas to prevent access and got paid on the windbreaks too. That was a win-win as the electric fence around the trees allows us to manage them separately in summer.

 

[Justin]

the only time i will hook on the the bale processer is if i have some older hay that has more mold than i care for on the outside layer or on the bottom of the bale if it was at the bottom of the stack. they are nice to use spreading straw too. i can pull up next to the barn door and have the place bedded in about a minutes, and never have to touch the pitch fork. but 99% of the time i roll out the bales with the loader. its dam sure a machine i and my cows could live without, but it is nice to have around at times :wink:

 

[loomixguy]

To help the cows generate more body heat, lay off the alfalfa when it's really cold, and feed straw instead. Alfalfa is a cold feed, but the rumen microbes will generate plenty of body heat in the old girls while breaking down the straw.

 

[Faster horses]

I'd say mix some straw with hay, not just feed total straw. Cows can't
digest it very well and it doesn't contain much, if any nutrition.
FWIW...

 

[flyingS]

I am going to disagree and say that you do not waste as much hay with a processor. There is defineately a big difference between a good processor and a bad one. In my opinion an Emerson processor built in Whitman, Ne. is the only way to go. The time I can save by hauling 6 bales intead of 2 is also a plus. I have taken care of anywhere from 650 mother cows to 550 first calvers plus 750 yearlings with no other help for the past 6 winters. If I have to plow my way to the cattle to feed I may as well feed while I am there. Anytime I have fed alfalfa the cattle have licked the ground slick, so I would have to say there is not much waste there either. Just my opinion. I know Soapweed has a few different rigs set up with bale beds so that they can get everything fed. Seems to work well for him, his cattle are always in good shape when I've seen them.

 

[Soapweed]

I am going to disagree and say that you do not waste as much hay with a processor. There is defineately a big difference between a good processor and a bad one. In my opinion an Emerson processor built in Whitman, Ne. is the only way to go. The time I can save by hauling 6 bales intead of 2 is also a plus. I have taken care of anywhere from 650 mother cows to 550 first calvers plus 750 yearlings with no other help for the past 6 winters. If I have to plow my way to the cattle to feed I may as well feed while I am there. Anytime I have fed alfalfa the cattle have licked the ground slick, so I would have to say there is not much waste there either. Just my opinion. I know Soapweed has a few different rigs set up with bale beds so that they can get everything fed. Seems to work well for him, his cattle are always in good shape when I've seen them.

We have two tractor/processor outfits that are necessary when the snow gets too deep, but otherwise I prefer the Hydra-beds. We have many different bale yards scattered around the place, so don't have to haul any hay very far. It is also nice to be able to cake at the same time that hay is fed.

 

[flyingS]

Are your processors D&W's Soapweed? I do not like to feed with the D&W feeders either.

 

[Soapweed]

Are your processors D&W's Soapweed? I do not like to feed with the D&W feeders either.

One is a D&W outfit, that has a Haybuster processor. It can haul five bales with the processor intact, in the wintertime, but hauls six bales at a time when in summertime mode with the loading arm in place. The other is just a two bale Haybuster unit. I think it is a 2640 model. They both work alright, but I prefer using the pickups if the snow isn't too deep.

 

[Nebraska Sandhills]

We feed with a couple Haybuster 2650 2/bale processor's and a 5-bale made by Flannery Hay Equip out of Atkinson, NE. My 2650 is equipped with scales and I'm not sure how we ever fed without scales before. It's amazing how much the hay can vary from baleyard to baleyard. It's nice to know the cattle are getting exactly what they need, and yet I'm not overfeeding them. I think we've saved enough hay to more than pay for the setup. We buy hay from several neighbors, so the scales also help us find an average weight for figuring tonnage on hay.

The cattle have really picked up on the hay during this cold spell---the mature cows have no problem putting away 50 lbs of prairie hay and 1.5 lbs. cake/day, and the replacements are eating 18 lbs of hay and 5 lbs. of an 18% pelleted feed. Glad we have plenty of hay stockpiled!

Alot of my uncles feed with Hydra-beds and get along great, but I really have no experience with them. As Soapweed mentioned, it is nice to be able to cake and hay at the same time. I can see where that would be a huge advantage as we seem to always run short on time and have a lot of cattle really strung out. We currently run the cake truck every other day(feed for 2 days at a time).

The only disadvantage I would see to a Hydrabed is that when we pile our hay in the summer with a Kosch 8 bale mover, the bales are not situated the right way for loading and unrolling without having to pick them up twice, unless I'm missing a trick?

We don't see much waste through the processors, but most of the hay we feed is high quality upland hay. We sell most of the pasture hay, rush hay, etc. to a local feedyard for grinding hay, so the cattle really have no reason not to clean up what we feed to them. I know, I know, they are pretty spoiled!

 

[Soapweed]

The only disadvantage I would see to a Hydrabed is that when we pile our hay in the summer with a Kosch 8 bale mover, the bales are not situated the right way for loading and unrolling without having to pick them up twice, unless I'm missing a trick?

It isn't too hard to pull bales out of the lineup and then turn around to load them in proper position. The worst part is cutting and gathering the twine. On our own bales we use sisal, and just cut the strings and let them roll out with the bale. Some of our purchased hay is tied with the biodegradeable solar almost-plastic twine. This I always cut off and collect, because it leaves a big mess if left on the ground. I bought one load of alfalfa tied with net-wrap. That is terrible stuff, and I'd have to get a heck of a deal to buy any more hay tied in that fashion.

 

[Big Swede]

Anytime I have to roll out a bale with the loader by the time I'm done I'm usually stressed out and starting to sweat. Try unrolling a hay millet bale that was baled before it should have been and you'll be cursing under your breathe or maybe even over your breath. Alfalfa can be a real sucker too especially if the hay was just a little too green when you baled it. Processors eliminate all those problems. If all I had was grass hay it would be different. They unroll really easy.

 

[gcreekrch]

The only disadvantage I would see to a Hydrabed is that when we pile our hay in the summer with a Kosch 8 bale mover, the bales are not situated the right way for loading and unrolling without having to pick them up twice, unless I'm missing a trick?

It isn't too hard to pull bales out of the lineup and then turn around to load them in proper position. The worst part is cutting and gathering the twine. On our own bales we use sisal, and just cut the strings and let them roll out with the bale. Some of our purchased hay is tied with the biodegradeable solar almost-plastic twine. This I always cut off and collect, because it leaves a big mess if left on the ground. I bought one load of alfalfa tied with net-wrap. That is terrible stuff, and I'd have to get a heck of a deal to buy any more hay tied in that fashion.

But Soap, if you used a processor your cows would clean up that netwrap and plastic twine and gain weight on it. :wink: :roll:

 

[Soapweed]

Anytime I have to roll out a bale with the loader by the time I'm done I'm usually stressed out and starting to sweat. Try unrolling a hay millet bale that was baled before it should have been and you'll be cursing under your breathe or maybe even over your breath. Alfalfa can be a real sucker too especially if the hay was just a little too green when you baled it. Processors eliminate all those problems. If all I had was grass hay it would be different. They unroll really easy.

My philosophy on putting up hay is that I'd rather bale it two days too dry than two hours too wet. Back in the days of stacking loose hay, it could sure be put up a bit greener than it can be baled. If it is too green to bale, I try my best not to get in a hurry to "get 'er done."

The only disadvantage I would see to a Hydrabed is that when we pile our hay in the summer with a Kosch 8 bale mover, the bales are not situated the right way for loading and unrolling without having to pick them up twice, unless I'm missing a trick?

It isn't too hard to pull bales out of the lineup and then turn around to load them in proper position. The worst part is cutting and gathering the twine. On our own bales we use sisal, and just cut the strings and let them roll out with the bale. Some of our purchased hay is tied with the biodegradeable solar almost-plastic twine. This I always cut off and collect, because it leaves a big mess if left on the ground. I bought one load of alfalfa tied with net-wrap. That is terrible stuff, and I'd have to get a heck of a deal to buy any more hay tied in that fashion.

But Soap, if you used a processor your cows would clean up that netwrap and plastic twine and gain weight on it. :wink: :roll:

Or die trying. :wink:

 

[Northern Rancher]

That stiffer net wrap that looks like black window scren is awful crap. I'd rather buy twine wrapped bales for sure.

 

[Big Swede]

I agree with your haymaking philosophy Soap but sometimes Mother Nature just doesn't cooperate. There's times when you have a half circle of alfalfa raked and there's a cloudbank building in the west and it's either going to blow away or get rained on......well you know the rest of the story.

 

[Soapweed]

I agree with your haymaking philosophy Soap but sometimes Mother Nature just doesn't cooperate. There's times when you have a half circle of alfalfa raked and there's a cloudbank building in the west and it's either going to blow away or get rained on......well you know the rest of the story.

We don't raise any alfalfa, but if I have meadow hay in the same circumstances that is too green, I say, "Let 'er rain." :wink: I'll put up the hay later after it has fully dried.

 

[leanin' H]

I agree with your haymaking philosophy Soap but sometimes Mother Nature just doesn't cooperate. There's times when you have a half circle of alfalfa raked and there's a cloudbank building in the west and it's either going to blow away or get rained on......well you know the rest of the story.

We don't raise any alfalfa, but if I have meadow hay in the same circumstances that is too green, I say, "Let 'er rain." :wink: I'll put up the hay later after it has fully dried.

The saying out here is.... better blue than black. Alfalfa thats almost dry starts stack yards on fire. I'd rather see it pretty dang blue in bloom while waiting for the rains to clear, than cut it early and see it black or bleached out yellow from being soaked and soaked.

 

[lacreek_cowboy]

I like to feed hay loose from the stack haybuster or slide stack alfalfa or grass. A mfd. drive tractor with a dozer blade pulling a weber stackmover and baker hydrafork does a darn fine job of it for me. And a Welker caker to string cake. Can feed a pile of cows and a man don't have to work to hard to get it done.

Any cowman worth his salt should have a feel for what a cow needs to get her by and keep her in good condition regardless of hay type or method of feeding. It can be as complicated as you want to make it.

When I bring mine "in" for feeding its 3% of body weight in hay, couple pounds of cake, and half a dozen ears of corn if I got it, salt and mineral.

 

[gcreekrch]

I agree with your haymaking philosophy Soap but sometimes Mother Nature just doesn't cooperate. There's times when you have a half circle of alfalfa raked and there's a cloudbank building in the west and it's either going to blow away or get rained on......well you know the rest of the story.

You sound a bit like me with one difference. You need an inline wrapper. :wink:

We don't have alfalfa either but a heavy crop of Meadow Foxtail can take a long time to dry. After doing the math, we are trading our single bale wrapper off for an inline and most everything will go in plastic.

 

[littlejoe]

To help the cows generate more body heat, lay off the alfalfa when it's really cold, and feed straw instead. Alfalfa is a cold feed, but the rumen microbes will generate plenty of body heat in the old girls while breaking down the straw.

You need to know your requirements, what you're feeding and the digestibility.

The idea is to meet all nutritional requirements at lowest possibly cost.

Protein is generally more expensive than energy.

Some excess protein is converted to energy, some goes out the back.

It's the back end that determines how much you can cram in the front end.

50-60 pounds of straw would probably meet the protein requiremnts pretty close--if the cow could digest it and if you could cram that much thru--good luck with that.

Mid gestation, probably 10-12 pounds of second cut alfalfa would meet the protein. Lotsa vit a and calcium. The fill 'er up with straw---half the energy will be given off as body heat, it'll slow the 'thru put' of the alfalfa down and you'll get more good outa it. Old straw is better than new straw, if it ain't spoilt--celuloise is breaking down.

Really cold and if it won't blow away--i like to run straw thru a processor---they can eat all they want and lay in the rest. They don't seem to like to eat stuff they've been laying in the day before, nice to have some free choice in feeders. They'll hit it on cold days and ignore it on nice ones.

Alfalfa hay is wonderful feed source--and ain't even named right! It ain't hay--it's protein supplement. Credit ray ansotigue for this. Ray says when the guy comes around and wants to sell you some '20% all natural protein supp" tell him c'mon---I'll show ya' a hundred tons of it---two strings around it and plum portable.

I feed some of my very best hay before calving---out on range, got lotsa rough stuff, but takes protein to digest energy. The rest i feed well after calving---when cows are wanting to chase grass, but it's all water and also hard on the grass.

Some guys figure wait to start feeding, then go 100%. I feed some early to make the grass work and fill in gaps in nutrition and some late to help both grass and cows. Right now, with apr 1 calving, losta rough pickin' and if the weather was normal---a 'full feed' every 3 days and they'd gain weight. 3rd day feeding stops them from waiting for the feed truck and everybody gets their share.

If bale beds are unrolling too fast or deep---pick the bales up backwards---

Processors are great for bedding, straw, crp hay, dusty hay, etc---and pretty much stop sorting.