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Question for you guys that understand genetics

S

Shelly

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Saskatchewan
If you breed a RWF cow to a black bull, are you always going to get a black calf? Reason I'm asking is one of our cows that we sold to the best friend came up with a rwf calf. Actually, not even red, more a red to tan color. The cow's mother is 1/4 Red Angus and her grandmother is 1/2 Red Angus. This particular cow was not exposed to any other bull than the black bull we bought last spring.

Also, what could be the reason these cows are calving so early? From our herd there's already been three calved and they were not supposed to start till next Sunday. And there's a few more that will calve before week's end.
 
We had a horned hereford cow bred to a Registered Black Angus Bull and she had a SOLID RED CALF...polled...we kept her as a herd marker and called her Cincinnatie Red. She always was bred to a Black Angus Bull and had a black calf.


Suprised us that she was SOLID RED, not a speck of white on her anywhere.
 
Shelly said:
If you breed a RWF cow to a black bull, are you always going to get a black calf? Reason I'm asking is one of our cows that we sold to the best friend came up with a rwf calf. Actually, not even red, more a red to tan color. The cow's mother is 1/4 Red Angus and her grandmother is 1/2 Red Angus. This particular cow was not exposed to any other bull than the black bull we bought last spring.

Also, what could be the reason these cows are calving so early? From our herd there's already been three calved and they were not supposed to start till next Sunday. And there's a few more that will calve before week's end.
Click to expand...

I don't know if I qualify to answer, but I'm gonna...

Breeding a rwf cow with a black bull will give you a red calf pretty regularly... Reason is because the angus genetics have a red gene. Some angus are more prominenant than others.
Cows can calf ten days to two weeks early.... Sometimes just goes with calving....
 
Shelly, that all depends on the color genes behind the Black bull.

It is very possible.

Black is dominant, which means that he can carry the red gene, and still look black. Red is recessive, which means that if the animal is red, it has 2 red genes.

So cross a hetero black animal Ee with a homo red animal ee will give these possible outcomes.

50% Ee - black colored animal carrying the red gene
50% ee - red colored animal.

As for your gestation length, it somewhat depends on the breed, sire and dam. Some breeds have shorter or longer gestations, some bulls within a breed may have longer or shorter gestations, same with the cows. We figure on a 283 day gestation, but calves can be born anywhere up to about 14 days early OR late so anywhere from 269 days to 297 days give or take.
 
a few years ago -----purebred Hoff black angus bulls bred to purebred black angus cows produced some white calves. :D :D :D :D :D :D
 
Some Black Angus cattle carry a red gene, but since red is recessive, it's generally not ever expressed in physical color of their calves when breeding to another Black Angus animal. The reason for this is because the majority of Black Angus cattle have two black genes and very few are red carriers. The only way for red color to show up is to pair up two red genes together in the calf. Once again, since black is dominant over red. Hence, the Red Angus breed was created.

So, if you have a red cow bred to a Black Angus bull and get a red calf from the mating, you've got yourself a Black Angus bull that carries both a black and a red gene for color. Just happened that he sent along his red gene to the calf in this case that you're describing and that was matched up with a red gene from the cow. Two reds equals a red :!:

Randiliana already stated most of what I just outlined. Just couldn't help myself. :roll:
 
katrina said:
Shelly said:
If you breed a RWF cow to a black bull, are you always going to get a black calf? Reason I'm asking is one of our cows that we sold to the best friend came up with a rwf calf. Actually, not even red, more a red to tan color. The cow's mother is 1/4 Red Angus and her grandmother is 1/2 Red Angus. This particular cow was not exposed to any other bull than the black bull we bought last spring.

Also, what could be the reason these cows are calving so early? From our herd there's already been three calved and they were not supposed to start till next Sunday. And there's a few more that will calve before week's end.
Click to expand...

I don't know if I qualify to answer, but I'm gonna...

Breeding a rwf cow with a black bull will give you a red calf pretty regularly... Reason is because the angus genetics have a red gene. Some angus are more prominenant than others.
Cows can calf ten days to two weeks early.... Sometimes just goes with calving....
Click to expand...
If the Angus Bull is Homozygous Black, and the cow he is bred to is Homozygous Black, and neither bull nor cow carries a red gene, all of the calves will be black. If a calf shows up and is red, there is a red gene SOMEWHERE. Black mated to black yields 25% Homozygous Black, 50% Heterozygous black, and 25% Recessive Red. Those percentages MAY show up in four matings, - or - 10 matings or perhaps it will take a thousand or more matings for the genetics to show those percentages. This is why NO ONE can predict what EVERY mating WILL produce - only what the genetic merits or predictions will dictate on a PERCENTAGE basis - NOT on a per progeny basis. The mating 'gods' don't look at particular matings and say, "OH - OH, we have three blacks from that cow and bull! Next calf has to be Red!" Doesn't work that way.

DOC HARRIS

ps- I just read what randiliana and High Plains wrote, and they are correct. Many people think that "PUREBRED" means that the calves MUST ALL be black. WRONG! Go back and read those posts again.

Juan - Go back and read the posts again - especially High Plains's. Understand the difference between "PUREBRED" and "HOMOZYGOUS". It is easy to become confused about genetics!

DOC HARRIS
 
One thing about red cattle is that if you breed a red cow to a red bull, you will always get a red calf.

We had a good red herd, and at one time I thought that I could breed them black and eventually convert them to look like the rest of our herd, which was black. This would maybe have worked had they been pure Red Angus. My cows had too much Gelbvieh in them, and there was a "diluter gene" somewhere. Too many of the calves turned out grey. There is nothing "wrong" with grey calves, but since "they don't go with the bunch" :roll: there is a definite hit on them at the sale barns. Through the years, I have retained ownership on these calves and entered them in the Sandhills Cattle Association carcass contest. They have done fairly well in this category, and have even won a belt buckle or two. Anyway, I went back to breeding the red cows to red bulls, and just no longer kept replacement heifers out of the red herd. They got quite a bit of age on them, and we sold all of the red cows last fall.
 
DOC HARRIS said:
katrina said:
Shelly said:
If you breed a RWF cow to a black bull, are you always going to get a black calf? Reason I'm asking is one of our cows that we sold to the best friend came up with a rwf calf. Actually, not even red, more a red to tan color. The cow's mother is 1/4 Red Angus and her grandmother is 1/2 Red Angus. This particular cow was not exposed to any other bull than the black bull we bought last spring.

Also, what could be the reason these cows are calving so early? From our herd there's already been three calved and they were not supposed to start till next Sunday. And there's a few more that will calve before week's end.
Click to expand...

I don't know if I qualify to answer, but I'm gonna...

Breeding a rwf cow with a black bull will give you a red calf pretty regularly... Reason is because the angus genetics have a red gene. Some angus are more prominenant than others.
Cows can calf ten days to two weeks early.... Sometimes just goes with calving....
Click to expand...
If the Angus Bull is Homozygous Black, and the cow he is bred to is Homozygous Black, and neither bull nor cow carries a red gene, all of the calves will be black. If a calf shows up and is red, there is a red gene SOMEWHERE. Black mated to black yields 25% Homozygous Black, 50% Heterozygous black, and 25% Recessive Red. Those percentages MAY show up in four matings, - or - 10 matings or perhaps it will take a thousand or more matings for the genetics to show those percentages. This is why NO ONE can predict what EVERY mating WILL produce - only what the genetic merits or predictions will dictate on a PERCENTAGE basis - NOT on a per progeny basis. The mating 'gods' don't look at particular matings and say, "OH - OH, we have three blacks from that cow and bull! Next calf has to be Red!" Doesn't work that way.

DOC HARRIS

ps- I just read what randiliana and High Plains wrote, and they are correct. Many people think that "PUREBRED" means that the calves MUST ALL be black. WRONG! Go back and read those posts again.

Juan - Go back and read the posts again - especially High Plains's. Understand the difference between "PUREBRED" and "HOMOZYGOUS". It is easy to become confused about genetics!

DOC HARRIS
Click to expand...
I KNOW DOC> I KNOW. :? :? :? :?
 
Mike said:
Big Muddy rancher said:
Black bulls can have a shorter gestation period then other breeds.
Click to expand...

Really? The BULL determines the gestation length? :lol: :lol:
Click to expand...

That is correct Mike. I and others have noticed this over the years with respect to angus bulls-certain angus bulls progeny for some reason are born earlier on a regular basis. I guess its in the genes of that particular bull.
 

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