R-CALF and others jointly filed a lawsuit over COOL

[flounder]

Thursday, September 6, 2012

R-CALF and others jointly filed a lawsuit against the World Trade Organization (WTO), Agriculture Secretary Tom Vilsack, and U.S. Trade Representative Ron Kirk over COOL

http://naiscoolyes.blogspot.com/2012/09/r-calf-and-others-jointly-filed-lawsuit.html

 

[Faster horses]

How many lawsuits has R-Calf filed and lost...
do your homework, flounder and let us know.

 

[Sandhusker]

The notion that a sovereign nation can't make a law so that it's citizens know where their food comes from is ridiculous and unacceptable.

 

[Mike]

The notion that a sovereign nation can't make a law so that it's citizens know where their food comes from is ridiculous and unacceptable.

You are correct. That's exactly why the WTO "Appeal" panel overturned an earlier ruling.

COOL laws were instated to provide Americans with more information about the food they eat, but a WTO dispute panel ruled last November that the laws violated international trade rules. This recent appellate ruling was a result of the U.S. challenge to the November ruling. With the appellate decision handed down against the U.S., COOL laws must now be modified to comply with the WTO's rules. The ruling stated that the laws are considered a "technical barrier to trade" and must be revised, although the panel did state that the U.S. is allowed to label where food comes from.

 

[ranch hand]

How do you revise the law ? Make sure they all are branded, but then you still have to keep them separate going into slaughter . I think the WTO is wrong on this.

 

[mrj]

On the other hand.......consumers want to know WHERE the food was raised, not just which country, the RANCH or FARM. COOL promoters did NOT want that on the label, and it would be mighty cumbersome for any meat processed on a large scale, wouldn't it?

Also on the other hand.....in many parts of the country it is reasonably easy to buy branded beef and know exactly where and who raised it...for a price! And often that price isn't out of line for the more or less 'hand raised' product some consumers are willing to pay for.

However, the majority do NOT want to pay extra for the extra service. Variety still is the spice of life...... there are many choices in many areas of this nation when one is buying meat......let the market place sort it all out!

mrj

 

[Anonymous]

Sandhusker: "The notion that a sovereign nation can't make a law so that it's citizens know where their food comes from is ridiculous and unacceptable".

What is ridiculous and unacceptable is the notion that you can trace beef from cattle in an enforceable manner without tracing the cattle themselves. "M"COOL proponents made this law the joke it has become when they shot themselves in the foot with their opposition to traceback on cattle.

"CAN-MEX-USA BEEF"

Gooooooooo R-CALF!


~SH~

 

[Sandhusker]

MRJ, "On the other hand.......consumers want to know WHERE the food was raised, not just which country, the RANCH or FARM"

Where do you get that information from?

 

[Sandhusker]

SH, "What is ridiculous and unacceptable is the notion that you can trace beef from cattle in an enforceable manner without tracing the cattle themselves."

I've explained this to you several times. Anything from Mexico currently has an "M" brand. Everything from Canada is either branded "CAN" or comes in a sealed van. Anything else is US by default. Anybody can walk through a packer's lot and easily figure out where any animal came from.

Packers have already shown that they can trace beef via their branded programs and premium programs. To ignore this and pretend that they can't trace their beef shows either innocent ignorance or willful ignorance. The question must be asked of the willful ignorant, "What have you to gain from playing stupid for the packers?"

 

[Soapweed]

SH, "What is ridiculous and unacceptable is the notion that you can trace beef from cattle in an enforceable manner without tracing the cattle themselves."

I've explained this to you several times. Anything from Mexico currently has an "M" brand. Everything from Canada is either branded "CAN" or comes in a sealed van. Anything else is US by default. Anybody can walk through a packer's lot and easily figure out where any animal came from.

Packers have already shown that they can trace beef via their branded programs and premium programs. To ignore this and pretend that they can't trace their beef shows either innocent ignorance or willful ignorance. The question must be asked of the willful ignorant, "What have you to gain from playing stupid for the packers?"

"Packers have already shown that they can trace beef via their branded programs and premium programs."

If there is a premium being paid for "branded beef" and "premium programs," yes, there is incentive for the packers to go to extra trouble to show where the beef originated. On commodity beef, the extra time and trouble wouldn't be reimbursed, and the consumer would ultimately have to pay the extra cost. Consequently beef could be priced beyond reach, allowing poultry and pork to gain extra market share by having a competitive edge.

 

[Anonymous]

Sandhusker: "I've explained this to you several times. Anything from Mexico currently has an "M" brand. Everything from Canada is either branded "CAN" or comes in a sealed van. Anything else is US by default. Anybody can walk through a packer's lot and easily figure out where any animal came from."

....and I've explained this to you several times based on actual knowledge of beef fabrication having participated in a branded beef program.

Tracking the cattle with an "M" or a "CAN" has absolutely nothing to do with tracking the beef that comes from those carcasses when cattle from many unknown origins are slaughtered at the same processing plants. The hide brands track cattle NOT BEEF. Your simplistic solution speaks volumes towards your lack of understanding of this issue.

How many different states do you think have a "M" registered as a brand on different locations??? Good grief!

Sandhusker: "Packers have already shown that they can trace beef via their branded programs and premium programs. To ignore this and pretend that they can't trace their beef shows either innocent ignorance or willful ignorance. The question must be asked of the willful ignorant, "What have you to gain from playing stupid for the packers?"

Yes, packers can trace beef WITH A VALID TRACEBACK SYSTEM. You "M"COOL proponents oppose traceback therefore there is no enforceable way to trace the beef from those carcasses.

When branded beef programs are scheduled for slaughter in large packing houses, those cattle have valid enforceable traceback systems that trace those cattle back to the ranch where they were "BORN AND RAISED" which makes it an enforceable traceback system. From that point those cattle are scheduled for slaughter on certain days and those cattle are processes seperately.

I know because I actually filled out those traceback papers that stated the ranch of origination and signed an affidavit stating the same. As the means to enforce this if a question of validity arose, hair samples were taken that would have allowed a DNA test to verify origination if needed.

Without a valid enforceable traceback system for cattle entering the plant, there is no possible way to know the country of origin which is precisely why we now have "CAN-MEX-USA" labeled beef.

Don't believe me? Contact the USDA and find out for yourself or continue to repeat what you've been told by R-CALF & Co.

Who's playing stupid?


~SH~

 

[mrj]

Sandhusker, I have personally participated in some consumer focus groups a few years ago where that was the comment from many consumers NOT connected with the cattle or beef industry.

I have read of more such groups.

I visit with people who have made such statements.

And there have been quite a number of guests in our home from city homes who wished we would sell our own beef to them so they would know where it came from, and because they liked what we served. It was not a practical thing for us or them, so haven't gotten into that business, yet.

Granted, none of this is official, though I believe something might be available from Beef Checkoff Q. and A. sessions with consumers.

mrj

 

[Sandhusker]

SH, "What is ridiculous and unacceptable is the notion that you can trace beef from cattle in an enforceable manner without tracing the cattle themselves."

I've explained this to you several times. Anything from Mexico currently has an "M" brand. Everything from Canada is either branded "CAN" or comes in a sealed van. Anything else is US by default. Anybody can walk through a packer's lot and easily figure out where any animal came from.

Packers have already shown that they can trace beef via their branded programs and premium programs. To ignore this and pretend that they can't trace their beef shows either innocent ignorance or willful ignorance. The question must be asked of the willful ignorant, "What have you to gain from playing stupid for the packers?"

"Packers have already shown that they can trace beef via their branded programs and premium programs."

If there is a premium being paid for "branded beef" and "premium programs," yes, there is incentive for the packers to go to extra trouble to show where the beef originated. On commodity beef, the extra time and trouble wouldn't be reimbursed, and the consumer would ultimately have to pay the extra cost. Consequently beef could be priced beyond reach, allowing poultry and pork to gain extra market share by having a competitive edge.

The point is they can do it. The excuse that they can't is invalid.

 

[Sandhusker]

Sandhusker: "I've explained this to you several times. Anything from Mexico currently has an "M" brand. Everything from Canada is either branded "CAN" or comes in a sealed van. Anything else is US by default. Anybody can walk through a packer's lot and easily figure out where any animal came from."

....and I've explained this to you several times based on actual knowledge of beef fabrication having participated in a branded beef program.

Tracking the cattle with an "M" or a "CAN" has absolutely nothing to do with tracking the beef that comes from those carcasses when cattle from many unknown origins are slaughtered at the same processing plants. The hide brands track cattle NOT BEEF. Your simplistic solution speaks volumes towards your lack of understanding of this issue.

How many different states do you think have a "M" registered as a brand on different locations??? Good grief!

Sandhusker: "Packers have already shown that they can trace beef via their branded programs and premium programs. To ignore this and pretend that they can't trace their beef shows either innocent ignorance or willful ignorance. The question must be asked of the willful ignorant, "What have you to gain from playing stupid for the packers?"

Yes, packers can trace beef WITH A VALID TRACEBACK SYSTEM. You "M"COOL proponents oppose traceback therefore there is no enforceable way to trace the beef from those carcasses.

When branded beef programs are scheduled for slaughter in large packing houses, those cattle have valid enforceable traceback systems that trace those cattle back to the ranch where they were "BORN AND RAISED" which makes it an enforceable traceback system. From that point those cattle are scheduled for slaughter on certain days and those cattle are processes seperately.

I know because I actually filled out those traceback papers that stated the ranch of origination and signed an affidavit stating the same. As the means to enforce this if a question of validity arose, hair samples were taken that would have allowed a DNA test to verify origination if needed.

Without a valid enforceable traceback system for cattle entering the plant, there is no possible way to know the country of origin which is precisely why we now have "CAN-MEX-USA" labeled beef.

Don't believe me? Contact the USDA and find out for yourself or continue to repeat what you've been told by R-CALF & Co.

Who's playing stupid?


~SH~

YOU'RE the one playing stupid. You act like it would be a huge undertaking to trace the beef. It would not. Ever hear of a friggin barcode?

 

[Sandhusker]

Sandhusker, I have personally participated in some consumer focus groups a few years ago where that was the comment from many consumers NOT connected with the cattle or beef industry.

I have read of more such groups.

I visit with people who have made such statements.

And there have been quite a number of guests in our home from city homes who wished we would sell our own beef to them so they would know where it came from, and because they liked what we served. It was not a practical thing for us or them, so haven't gotten into that business, yet.

Granted, none of this is official, though I believe something might be available from Beef Checkoff Q. and A. sessions with consumers.

mrj

You're talking an isolated deal. Is there a national movement? Not at all. Why would there be? Mrs. Johnson in Chicago doesn't know the difference between an Angus or a Char - why would they want to know ranch of origin? That is useless information to them.

 

[mrj]

I think you are hoping what you state is true. I trust the aggregate of my sources on this due to reading MANY national magazines and newspapers across a broad spectrum of interests and seeing what comments are shared as well as the content of articles.

Knowing that focus groups can show a broad range of peoples' interests from relatively small numbers sampled, particularly when they are held in several parts of the country makes sense.

Because people are being told nearly daily by so many media sources, that they need to know WHERE there food comes from and HOW IT IS RAISED, people ARE taking that admonition to heart and critiizing us for not being more open and transparent about how we raise our food animals and they want to know reasons for how animals are treated.

That surely is why some people will spend what it takes to get the branded meats so long as they can afford to. And those who can't afford it complain and cut out meat because they don't trust the source if they cannot find it. Unfortunately for some ranchers, that trend doesn't seem to be going away.

mrj

 

[Anonymous]

Sandhusker: "The point is they can do it. The excuse that they can't is invalid."

The issue was never could they do it, the issue was whether they could do it in an enforceable manner to satisfy the requirements of your flawed law.

Of course they can track beef with a valid enforceable traceback system as is the case with branded beef programs. "M"COOL proponents opposed to traceback made "M"COOL the unenforceable joke it is.

The excuse that they can't do it without a valid enforceable traceback system is not an excuse IT'S A FACT. If it wasn't, you wouldn't have "CAN-MEX-USA" labels. Anyone can claim any origination without an enforceable system.

If you knew anything about beef fabrication and processing and the laws surrounding "M"COOL enforceability, you would know that you have to track the cattle into the plant and the beef from those cattle out of the plant in an enforceable manner. Your oversimplistic brand solution is a joke. It just shows how much you don't know about this law.

Let me remind you, you "M"COOL proponents insisted that the only way beef could receive the "US BEEF" label if it was "born, raised, and processed" in the US. Well, since some cattle move back and forth across the borders during their lives, the only way to prove origination is with a valid enforceable traceback system WHICH YOU OPPOSE.

You can try to spin this anyway you want and create the "ILLUSION" that your oversimplistic imported cattle tracking solutions are valid but unfortunately, you're not the one who has to enforce your empty law, USDA is. They've made it clear that they cannot enforce it without a valid traceback system on all cattle.

Sandhusker: "YOU'RE the one playing stupid. You act like it would be a huge undertaking to trace the beef. It would not. Ever hear of a friggin barcode?"

Of course I have heard of a barcode and a barcode could track cattle and beef to where it was "BORN" IF YOU DIDN'T OPPOSE TRACEBACK!!!!!

You oppose a traceback system then provide traceback ideas??

Good grief!

Tell it like it really is Sandhusker, you want imported cattle marked into the plant and the beef from those cattle tracked with a bar code. What's ironic is that you are going to allow this sort of unenforceable system for the packers to label beef WHEN YOU DON'T TRUST THEM!! LOL!

USDA "M"COOL Enforcer to packer: "Sir, I see this past month you have received 5 shipments of cattle from Canada. Where did the beef from those cattle end up?"

Packer: "They ended up in food service where they are exempt from labeling".

USDA: "Ahhh....ok?"

USDA "M"COOL enforcer to packer: "Well what about the ground beef, you sent to retail"

Packer: "We blend our ground beef together, we don't keep beef seperate from different originations. We mark it "CAN-MEX-USA" because we know for sure it came from one of those countries".

USDA: "Ahhhh....ok?"


All of this based on the premise that the majority of consumers want to know what country their beef comes from. I would say the fact that "CAN-MEX-USA" beef is selling proves how unimportant country of origin is to MOST consumers.

MRJ is correct, there is a growing percent of our population that wants to know EXACTLY where their beef comes from. I don't believe origination ranks very high on the priority list of the food concerns for the average consumer. PRICE RELATIVE TO VALUE is king to most consumers.


~SH~