R-CALF supporter test of integrity

[HAY MAKER]

OT: "How many of those were Hawaiian and Alaskan cattle that came in thru Canada?- they usually don't seperate that info when they cross the border."

Dazzle us with your brilliance OT, tell us, how many Hawaiian and Alaskan cattle do you think are included in those numbers and what percentage you believe they would constitute of the total?


I knew you'd try to pull some lame @ss excuse like this out of your hat if you responded at all.


You just don't have it in you to be honest with yourself regarding how R-CULT has misled their followers on the impact of Canadian live cattle imports do you?

You R-CULT clones are so pathetic when it comes to showing any degree of integrity.

~SH~

And you packer loving thieves are worst than a damn gutter rat,if I took every one of you and ran you thru a wringer washer I bet I could'nt squeeze an ounce of integrity out of the whole damn bunch of you....................good luck

 

[PORKER]

Bret Cotts Quote,This is just speculation, but I think one of the reasons that we don't get the daily data anymore has to do with the accuracy of the numbers. If we had daily data, I think we would see a lot of revisions.

Guess What Bret, When the Record Movement system for NAIS gets going ,You will be able to TRACK every animal anywhere to the PACKERS DOOR and HOW long they OWNED it. There Will NOT be Any SPECULATION AnyMORE ,,It WILL be ALL FACTS!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Anonymous]

How much of a beef herd do you think ALASKA has Oldtimer? :lol: :lol: :lol:

I have no idea Bill- but Alaska must have some smart cattle producers- In the last Cattlemans Newsletter I saw where R-CALF had members in Alaska :wink:

On the weekly USDA reports of cattle imported from Canada, they usually put a disclaimer stating that this number includes cattle brought thru Canada from Hawaii and/or Alaska........

 

[Tam]

We are not getting the amount of cattle across we did pre-BSE.

Things are not the same because R-Calf has brought it about.

If R-calf had not pushed then things would have been the same and the cattle would free flow across and yes prices would drop.

Hey Rancher I just looked at the Canfax newsletter and it says

Exports over the past nine weeks are actually higher than the pre-BSE average. Other than the first week of resumed feeder cattle movement the range has been 5,692 to 10,661 head. This compares to a pre-BSE average of 2,944 to 4,199 head in August and September. Generally two factors have contributed to this trend so far 1) the U.S. owned feeder cattle that were on feed in Canada and were destined to U.S. finishing lots have moved and 2) a strong feeder market continues to draw feeders south.

Gee imports of feeders is above average and boxed beef is at record levels and still the US cattle prices haven't DROPPED.

So you really don't know everything Queen Tam.

well Rancher looks like you don't know as much as you think you know either. :roll:

How many of those were Hawaiian and Alaskan cattle that came in thru Canada?- they usually don't seperate that info when they cross the border.

Also as long as all the restrictions stay in place- buyers and feeders can afford to pay more for US born and raised, rather than go thru the hoops and loops of required to import or feed Canadian....Need R-CALF to keep USDA from lowering those rules...

Tam- What about the new feedlot requirements for heifers to be imported?

Oldtimer do feedlots not have allies that could seperate heifer from steers?

And are you telling us that there are US producers using our infrastructure to benefit them. Wouldn't that mean they are living off our shirttails? :?
Oldtimer if those Hawaiian and Alaska cattle were included in the Post BSE import averages what is the changes they were included in the Pre BSE averages? And just how many cattle do you think are being shipped through Canada by these two States?

 

[Tam]

How much of a beef herd do you think ALASKA has Oldtimer? :lol: :lol: :lol:

I have no idea Bill- but Alaska must have some smart cattle producers- In the last Cattlemans Newsletter I saw where R-CALF had members in Alaska :wink:

On the weekly USDA reports of cattle imported from Canada, they usually put a disclaimer stating that this number includes cattle brought thru Canada from Hawaii and/or Alaska........

Gee Oldtimer according to the Alaskan Cattle and Calve inventory for 2002 there were some 12,609 head in Alaska. Just how many of those do you think were kept as herd cattle and how many do you think might have been fed out and slaughtered right in Alaska for their own fresh meat needs?

By the way I checked the Hawaiian numbers and the June export numbers went from 2800 in 2004 to 1200 in 2005. What could have possibably made such a large drop in the number when they have always shipped their beef through Canada. According to the US's own laws Hawaii can't legally ship to a US ports even through they are a US state. :roll: And could that drop also have been in affect when the Border opened back up to Canadian cattle? Meaning the percentage of Canadian cattle in that post BSE average was higher than pre BSE averages?

 

[Tam]

OT: "How many of those were Hawaiian and Alaskan cattle that came in thru Canada?- they usually don't seperate that info when they cross the border."

Dazzle us with your brilliance OT, tell us, how many Hawaiian and Alaskan cattle do you think are included in those numbers and what percentage you believe they would constitute of the total?


I knew you'd try to pull some lame @ss excuse like this out of your hat if you responded at all.


You just don't have it in you to be honest with yourself regarding how R-CULT has misled their followers on the impact of Canadian live cattle imports do you?

You R-CULT clones are so pathetic when it comes to showing any degree of integrity.

~SH~

And you packer loving thieves are worst than a damn gutter rat,if I took every one of you and ran you thru a wringer washer I bet I could'nt squeeze an ounce of integrity out of the whole damn bunch of you....................good luck

Yep the name calling is heating up SH you much be hitting a bit to close to the home again. Don't admit R-CALF was wrong Haymaker just divert the topic to name calling that is what you do best. :wink:

 

[Anonymous]

Hey Rancher I just looked at the Canfax newsletter and it says Gee imports of feeders is above average and boxed beef is at record levels and still the US cattle prices haven't DROPPED.

well Rancher looks like you don't know as much as you think you know either. :roll:

How many of those were Hawaiian and Alaskan cattle that came in thru Canada?- they usually don't seperate that info when they cross the border.

Also as long as all the restrictions stay in place- buyers and feeders can afford to pay more for US born and raised, rather than go thru the hoops and loops of required to import or feed Canadian....Need R-CALF to keep USDA from lowering those rules...

Tam- What about the new feedlot requirements for heifers to be imported?

Oldtimer do feedlots not have allies that could seperate heifer from steers?

And are you telling us that there are US producers using our infrastructure to benefit them.

I don't know if its worth all the hassle- Kato in her post seemed to think it was going to be a hindrance to her...

I do know the added cost and hassle of importing Canadian cattle is slowing down the number coming across- and keeping the price up in the US- because they have to figure all those testing costs, isolation costs, paperwork and inspection requirements into the price of Canadian cattle....Then there is that ever present unknown risk factor of what could happen with the border in the future...

Kind of reminds me of the Anaplas- Blue tongue regs that Canada has....What goes around comes around :wink:

 

[Anonymous]

According to the US's own laws Hawaii can't legally ship to a US ports even through they are a US state. :roll:

I think you are wrong again there Tam :roll: - Hawaii has and does ship cattle into the mainland- but because of the maritime laws and union setup, they have to come in thru foreign ports so they don't have to use the much more expensive US registered shipping lines and ports....

 

[Bill]

I don't know if its worth all the hassle- Kato in her post seemed to think it was going to be a hindrance to her...

I do know the added cost and hassle of importing Canadian cattle is slowing down the number coming across- and keeping the price up in the US- because they have to figure all those testing costs, isolation costs, paperwork and inspection requirements into the price of Canadian cattle....Then there is that ever present unknown risk factor of what could happen with the border in the future...

Kind of reminds me of the Anaplas- Blue tongue regs that Canada has....What goes around comes around

What really matters is that Canadian exports of beef and cattle to the US are up and our trade access to the US marketplace is continuing despite R-Calf and their lies. So I guess you are correct what goes around does come around.:lol:

 

[Tam]

According to the US's own laws Hawaii can't legally ship to a US ports even through they are a US state. :roll:

I think you are wrong again there Tam :roll: - Hawaii has and does ship cattle into the mainland- but because of the maritime laws and union setup, they have to come in thru foreign ports so they don't have to use the much more expensive US registered shipping lines and ports....

He calls Hawai'i cattle industry dilemma "perfect example"
of negative effect of Jones Act on Hawai'i economy


December 30, 2003

Honolulu, Hawai'i – Addressing the continued ripple effects in Hawai'i of discovery of BSE in U.S. cattle, U.S. Representative Ed Case (Hawai'i, Second District) has asked Canada to allow the continued import of Hawaii cattle for transshipment to U.S. markets.

In a letter today to Canadian Ambassador to the United States Michael Kergin, Case asked Canada for assurances it would accept a major shipment of Big Island cattle scheduled to depart Kawaihae today on a foreign-flagged cattle ship for arrival in Vancouver January 8th. Canada's acceptance of that and future such shipments was cast into doubt by its imposition of a partial ban on the importation of U.S. cattle following last week's announcement of the presence of BSE in a U.S. cow.

Case told Kergin that because of "restrictions imposed by U.S. maritime law [the Jones Act, which prohibits direct cattle shipments between U.S. ports by foreign flag vessels,] the ranchers of Hawai'i have long shipped their feeder cattle to Canada on foreign-flag cattle boats … [for transshipment] by land to the United States under existing quarantine and other protocols." Case further told Kergin that the Jones Act contained "no available exemption" allowing direct shipments under current circumstances, such that there was no alternative for getting the December 30th shipment to market other than to land in Canada.

Case asked Canada for assurances that it would allow entry of the shipment under quarantine for transshipment to U.S. markets. In a parallel effort, Case has also contacted the U.S. Department of Agriculture to assure that the cattle will be accepted into the United States from Canada.

"The principal market for Hawai'i beef is the Mainland U.S., so it is crucial that Hawai'i's ranchers be assured they can get their product to market amidst the international fallout from the recent BSE discovery, and I'm optimistic that both Canada and the USDA will provide the necessary assurances in time for today's shipment to get through," said Case, a member of the U.S. House Committee on Agriculture. "At the same time, I couldn't have invented a more perfect example of how the Jones Act hinders Hawai'i exports, requiring, in the case of Hawai'i's cattle industry, all manner of international gyrations rather than just allow the ranchers to ship their cattle directly to U.S. ports of their choice like Stockton, CA on vessels of their choice. This is why Jones Act reform, like my bill to exempt Hawai'i exports from the Jones Act, is so vital to Hawai'i, and why I intend to push for this exemption in the 2004 congressional session."

Gee Oldtimer why didn't they just reroute the ship load of cattle oh yes the Jones Act contained "no available exemption" allowing direct shipments under current circumstances.
Doesn't look like Hawaii thought they had any option but to land in Canada to me.

 

[Anonymous]

According to the US's own laws Hawaii can't legally ship to a US ports even through they are a US state. :roll:

I think you are wrong again there Tam :roll: - Hawaii has and does ship cattle into the mainland- but because of the maritime laws and union setup, they have to come in thru foreign ports so they don't have to use the much more expensive US registered shipping lines and ports....

He calls Hawai'i cattle industry dilemma "perfect example"
of negative effect of Jones Act on Hawai'i economy


December 30, 2003

Honolulu, Hawai'i – Addressing the continued ripple effects in Hawai'i of discovery of BSE in U.S. cattle, U.S. Representative Ed Case (Hawai'i, Second District) has asked Canada to allow the continued import of Hawaii cattle for transshipment to U.S. markets.

In a letter today to Canadian Ambassador to the United States Michael Kergin, Case asked Canada for assurances it would accept a major shipment of Big Island cattle scheduled to depart Kawaihae today on a foreign-flagged cattle ship for arrival in Vancouver January 8th. Canada's acceptance of that and future such shipments was cast into doubt by its imposition of a partial ban on the importation of U.S. cattle following last week's announcement of the presence of BSE in a U.S. cow.

Case told Kergin that because of "restrictions imposed by U.S. maritime law [the Jones Act, which prohibits direct cattle shipments between U.S. ports by foreign flag vessels,] the ranchers of Hawai'i have long shipped their feeder cattle to Canada on foreign-flag cattle boats … [for transshipment] by land to the United States under existing quarantine and other protocols." Case further told Kergin that the Jones Act contained "no available exemption" allowing direct shipments under current circumstances, such that there was no alternative for getting the December 30th shipment to market other than to land in Canada.

Case asked Canada for assurances that it would allow entry of the shipment under quarantine for transshipment to U.S. markets. In a parallel effort, Case has also contacted the U.S. Department of Agriculture to assure that the cattle will be accepted into the United States from Canada.

"The principal market for Hawai'i beef is the Mainland U.S., so it is crucial that Hawai'i's ranchers be assured they can get their product to market amidst the international fallout from the recent BSE discovery, and I'm optimistic that both Canada and the USDA will provide the necessary assurances in time for today's shipment to get through," said Case, a member of the U.S. House Committee on Agriculture. "At the same time, I couldn't have invented a more perfect example of how the Jones Act hinders Hawai'i exports, requiring, in the case of Hawai'i's cattle industry, all manner of international gyrations rather than just allow the ranchers to ship their cattle directly to U.S. ports of their choice like Stockton, CA on vessels of their choice. This is why Jones Act reform, like my bill to exempt Hawai'i exports from the Jones Act, is so vital to Hawai'i, and why I intend to push for this exemption in the 2004 congressional session."

Gee Oldtimer why didn't they just reroute the ship load of cattle oh yes the Jones Act contained "no available exemption" allowing direct shipments under current circumstances.
Doesn't look like Hawaii thought they had any option but to land in Canada to me.

But there is NO law prohibiting them from hiring US flagged vessels to ship directly into California- just an extremely higher cost.......And I agree its a crock....

 

[HAY MAKER]

Dazzle us with your brilliance OT, tell us, how many Hawaiian and Alaskan cattle do you think are included in those numbers and what percentage you believe they would constitute of the total?


I knew you'd try to pull some lame @ss excuse like this out of your hat if you responded at all.


You just don't have it in you to be honest with yourself regarding how R-CULT has misled their followers on the impact of Canadian live cattle imports do you?




~SH~

And you packer loving thieves are worst than a damn gutter rat,if I took every one of you and ran you thru a wringer washer I bet I could'nt squeeze an ounce of integrity out of the whole damn bunch of you....................good luck

Yep the name calling is heating up SH you much be hitting a bit to close to the home again. Don't admit R-CALF was wrong Haymaker just divert the topic to name calling that is what you do best. :wink:

You see who starts the name calling,and for you to side with packer parrots just proves Im right about you,once again you have proven what I have said all along about you,I would'nt trust you to count the collection in church :wink: ...............good luck

 

[Tam]

Hawaii has and does ship cattle into the mainland-

just an extremely higher cost.

You claim they do, but the man the represents that State, U.S. Representative Ed Case (Hawai'i, Second District) says

the ranchers of Hawai'i have long shipped their feeder cattle to Canada on foreign-flag cattle boats

Got any numbers Oldtimer on how many are ship direct. Or are you just guessing they ship directly to the mainland using a much more expensive shipping line?

 

[Tam]

Oldtimer I just read this from Cow Calf weekly

The Jones Act requires goods being transported by water between U.S. points must travel on U.S.-flagged, U.S.-built, U.S.-crewed and U.S.-owned vessels. There are a small number of these ships that are available for agriculture which increases the cost of transportation.

Can you tell us just what that number is and how many of those ships are tagged for shipping cattle from Hawaii and Alaska to the mainland? When is it much cheaper to just ship them through Canada on foreign flagged ships.

 

[Anonymous]

Oldtimer I just read this from Cow Calf weekly

The Jones Act requires goods being transported by water between U.S. points must travel on U.S.-flagged, U.S.-built, U.S.-crewed and U.S.-owned vessels. There are a small number of these ships that are available for agriculture which increases the cost of transportation.

Can you tell us just what that number is and how many of those ships are tagged for shipping cattle from Hawaii and Alaska to the mainland? When is it much cheaper to just ship them through Canada on foreign flagged ships.

Tam-- the availability is there- even if there is only one ship- they could use it....But would it be worth it- same as the border is open, but why aren't the buyers flooding north?

On Canadian feeders... I've watched the prices over the last few weeks at Assiniboia and Weyburn-- Roy and Assiniboia are 120 miles north of me- but feeder prices have been equal or usually much less at Assiniboia, even with about a 20% Canadian money discount-- which means my neighbor that got $1005 for his 894 Lb steer calves at Glasgow Livestock got $200 more than the Canuck at Assiniboia- his 787 lb heifers brought $117.25= $923-- still a $150- 200 difference ( which could be even more, now that the CFIA heifer-steer segregation rule was announced)... So you think the border rules that R-CALF ( and I'll even give limited credit to NCBA) fought so hard to put in place- and R-CALF is still fighting for to keep USDA honest--don't have an effect? Looks to me like R-CALF's continued oversight on USDA and CFIA and their continued screwups, have virtually put into effect the "spay all heifer rule" which both R-CALF and NCBA backed and USDA refused to enact..

 

[Anonymous]

Old Timer,

How do you explain the current cattle prices in the U.S. with an opened Canadian border?

How do you explain that?

You mentioned Alaskan and Hawaiian imports, I asked you what percentage they were of of the total imports coming in from Canada, you didn't answer the question.


Why won't you guys address the initial question? Don't you have the ability to admit that R-CULT misled U.S. producers on the impact of Canadian imports?

Why can't you be honest with yourselves?


Last year the border was closed. We know what calf prices were last year. This year the border is opened and we know what calf prices are.

Is there a difference in Canadian imports between now and before the border was closed that would support the argument that conditions are not the same?

If you are going to mention other supply and demand factors that play on the market now, you would also have to consider them when the border was closed wouldn't you? Don't want to go down that hypocritical road do you?

You R-CULT worshippers simply cannot handle the truth can you?

Why don't you ask Lynn Cornwell this question. I'll be he knows the answer.


~SH~

 

[Big Muddy rancher]

Oldtimer I just read this from Cow Calf weekly

The Jones Act requires goods being transported by water between U.S. points must travel on U.S.-flagged, U.S.-built, U.S.-crewed and U.S.-owned vessels. There are a small number of these ships that are available for agriculture which increases the cost of transportation.

Can you tell us just what that number is and how many of those ships are tagged for shipping cattle from Hawaii and Alaska to the mainland? When is it much cheaper to just ship them through Canada on foreign flagged ships.

Tam-- the availability is there- even if there is only one ship- they could use it....But would it be worth it- same as the border is open, but why aren't the buyers flooding north?

On Canadian feeders... I've watched the prices over the last few weeks at Assiniboia and Weyburn-- Roy and Assiniboia are 120 miles north of me- but feeder prices have been equal or usually much less at Assiniboia, even with about a 20% Canadian money discount-- which means my neighbor that got $1005 for his 894 Lb steer calves at Glasgow Livestock got $200 more than the Canuck at Assiniboia- his 787 lb heifers brought $117.25= $923-- still a $150- 200 difference ( which could be even more, now that the CFIA heifer-steer segregation rule was announced)... So you think the border rules that R-CALF ( and I'll even give limited credit to NCBA) fought so hard to put in place- and R-CALF is still fighting for to keep USDA honest--don't have an effect? Looks to me like R-CALF's continued oversight on USDA and CFIA and their continued screwups, have virtually put into effect the "spay all heifer rule" which both R-CALF and NCBA backed and USDA refused to enact..

Your stretching it a bit Oldtimer. On the same weight Hfrs I was $117 Dollars back and and about the same on the steers. Not $200 dollars. Yes their in more costs accoiated with shipping south but their always have been. Just now with our dollar closer it does not make it look as much of a difference.


And again you say the restriction help your market. I thought it was HEALTH related not Protectionism.

 

[Tam]

Looks to me like R-CALF's continued oversight on USDA and CFIA and their continued screwups, have virtually put into effect the "spay all heifer rule" which both R-CALF and NCBA backed and USDA refused to enact..

Can you tell us just what CFIA screwd up that R-CALF found to make you believe R-CALF can take credit for the overseeing of CFIA. Was R-CALF in the slaughter plants that found the pregnant heifers or was R-CALF in Canada going through the paper work when the CFIA found the over thirty month animal's paper work. No so how can you say R-CALF's continued oversight of the USDA and the CFIA, has virtually put anything into effect.

I have to laugh Oldtimer you alway want to make it look as if the USDA is run by the packers but here you are saying "Looks to me like R-CALF's continued oversight on USDA and CFIA"----. What happen to the almight power of the packers telling the USDA what to do if R-CALF has virtually done this all on their own.

the availability is there- even if there is only one ship- they could use it..

Gee Oldtimer now you are saying "they could us it." what happen to they DO us it. And just for you Oldtimer I will admit I should have said According to the US's own laws Hawaii can't afford to legally ship to a US ports even through they are a US state. And Since you have now changed your Do to they Could I guess you have no idea how many are shipped directly to the mainland. But you also haven't answer the question if those Hawaiian and Alaskan animals are included in the post BSE avaerages would they also be included in the pre-BSE averages? and if Hawaii's exports dropped from 2800 in 2004 to 1200 in 2005 couldn't that mean that the percentage of Canadian cattle could be higher in the post BSE average?

 

[Anonymous]

Can you tell us just what CFIA screwd up that R-CALF found to make you believe R-CALF can take credit for the overseeing of CFIA.

Tam- CFIA screwed up by allowing in OTM cattle and pregnant cattle-- and with the heat they caught, they have now came up with this new 50 day empty pen segregation rule....Without R-CALF and some other US groups putting the heat on them, they may have just let the whole thing slide by- and lessen our herd health safety rules.......

 

[Anonymous]

And again you say the restriction help your market. I thought it was HEALTH related not Protectionism.

Kind of reminds me of the Anaplas- blue tongue rules...Canadians said it was a herd health issue- not a trade barrier-- and even after all the US scientists said it was a farce, many Canadians still supported it just to keep out the US supply of calves which could have affected Canadian calf prices.....

Down here it was never seen as anything but Canadian Protectionism...

With your heifers it appears as tho the border rules and hoops and loops were worth $117- either that or they were inferior cattle :???: which I doubt....Many of the sales I've been watching have run close to $200 difference, so yours must have been good calves....

And that $117- $200 is $117- $200 more the US buyers will pay for the US calves before they buy Canadian cattle- which is helping keep the US prices strong.....