R-CALF USA Talking Points Regarding USDA’s OTM Import Rule

[HAY MAKER]

Maybe while the two of you R=Klowns are sitting there stroking each other you could find the time to post your source that says Canadians aren't co-operating with whatever request may have been made by US authorities.

.

Bill- Are all Canadians selective readers....Did you miss this post of Tams- or do you just have selective memory-eh?

However the packer was the first to put a request into the CCIA but they didn't have any authority to do so. As did the USDA but they don't have the authority to do so either. The USDA was told that CFIA could access the information ONLY IF THERE WAS A HEALTH ISSUE.

She said she checked on it when she was in Regina-- or are you now saying Tam is not to be believed either :???: You sound like you may be related to the Canuck on cattletoday that keeps calling Miss Tam a liar... :wink: :lol:

Nope I don't post on Cattle Today but I sure find it enjoyable to see the other Americans who also see through your R-Klan BS and aren't afraid to point it out to you.

Who said she posted it on cattle today ? that's a differnt story,there is a canuck over there that thinks Miss Tam is unthruthful and maybe a little promiscuous,at least that's the way I interpret it.............good luck

 

[Bill]

Bill- Are all Canadians selective readers....Did you miss this post of Tams- or do you just have selective memory-eh?



She said she checked on it when she was in Regina-- or are you now saying Tam is not to be believed either :???: You sound like you may be related to the Canuck on cattletoday that keeps calling Miss Tam a liar... :wink: :lol:

If 7 contraband steers coming into the USA illegally from a country that is under quarantine doe'nt constitute a health issuse,what does.............good luck
PS like elmo said this morning .wonder how many OTM's were in the bunch ?

Same reasons the US is building the new Port "forts" on the 49th- increasing Border Patrol 10 fold- putting up spy in the sky planes and predators- building a whole new immigration air force at Great Falls- and is electronically wiring the border...Because Canada again refuses to hold up their end of the deal...They seem to not take anything serious....

There is not a Judge in the country that would not recognize that the Border rule/quarantine was put on because of a health issue-- and that this is a continuing issue since it is part of that quarantine violation- and could be for years to come since it is a still happening situation......

Careful Oldtimer, your anti-Canadian attitude is once again validating the diagnosis of your small man syndrome. Your fellow R-Klanners might buy your bigotted anti-Canadian tendencies but very few others.

 

[HAY MAKER]

Bill I dont think OT is anti canada,and neither am I,you are taking these violations/noncompliance issuses way to lightly,when some one posts factual information that you dont want to hear........they are anti canada, and maybe that will make it go away ..............good luck

 

[Tam]

Maybe while the two of you R=Klowns are sitting there stroking each other you could find the time to post your source that says Canadians aren't co-operating with whatever request may have been made by US authorities.

.

Bill- Are all Canadians selective readers....Did you miss this post of Tams- or do you just have selective memory-eh?

However the packer was the first to put a request into the CCIA but they didn't have any authority to do so. As did the USDA but they don't have the authority to do so either. The USDA was told that CFIA could access the information ONLY IF THERE WAS A HEALTH ISSUE.

She said she checked on it when she was in Regina-- or are you now saying Tam is not to be believed either :???: You sound like you may be related to the Canuck on cattletoday that keeps calling Miss Tam a liar... :wink: :lol:

If 7 contraband steers coming into the USA illegally from a country that is under quarantine doe'nt constitute a health issuse,what does.............good luck
PS like elmo said this morning .wonder how many OTM's were in the bunch ?

Do you have any proof that these cattle entered the US illegally?
Do you have any proof these cattle presented any kind of health risk?
Where are the TEST RESULTS that proved these animals were anything but HEALTHY?
What I posted was if these animals had tested positive for any kind of reportable disease and presented any kind of true health risk then the CCIA could and would have released the names to the proper authorities, that being the CFIA not the packer or the USDA but the Canadian Food Inspection Agency . BUT their hands were tried due to the industry policy not to just hand the information out to anyone that asked for it on HEALTHY ANIMALS. Our system was not set up to find strays. It was set up to find the birthplace of TRULY DISEASED ANIMALS. When and if the USDA can prove these animals were a true health risk with a positive test result then and only then can the CCIA release those names to the CFIA, INDUSTRY POLICY

Tell us Haymaker and Oldtimer would you want your industry designed system (if you had one :wink: ) to breech the protocol, they built and sold their system to the producers on, to release information to just anyone that asks? Think about what you are asking the CCIA to do and ask yourself if you would expect your systems data to be kept in confidence as PROMISED or Released to just anyone that puts in a request?

 

[HAY MAKER]

You have a point Miss Tam,but it only compounds the problem................. still no way to keep track of cattle from a country that has numerous BSE problems both pre and post feed ban, add the feed ban violations and tell the American cattle man he should open the border ?..................good luck,this time you are gonna need it

 

[Tam]

Bill- Are all Canadians selective readers....Did you miss this post of Tams- or do you just have selective memory-eh?



She said she checked on it when she was in Regina-- or are you now saying Tam is not to be believed either :???: You sound like you may be related to the Canuck on cattletoday that keeps calling Miss Tam a liar... :wink: :lol:

Nope I don't post on Cattle Today but I sure find it enjoyable to see the other Americans who also see through your R-Klan BS and aren't afraid to point it out to you.

Who said she posted it on cattle today ? that's a differnt story,there is a canuck over there that thinks Miss Tam is unthruthful and maybe a little promiscuous,at least that's the way I interpret it.............good luck

quote from Cattle Today poster that Oldtimer and Haymaker claims called me a liar.

OT i will say it one more time, as of friday i posted what i was told and believed to be true at that time. I will not tell Tam she is wrong or a liar because i do not know her sorces and she might be privy to more than i. is that babbling?

Maybe you or Oldtimer would like to explain how this leads you to believe this poster keeps calling me a liar.

From what I read he talked to one source the CFIA and I talked to another ???????? :wink: . Now his statement about the CFIA not having recieved an official request can be explained very eazily. As according to my source, the CCIA was contacted first and when the rules of the CCIA were explained to both the packer and the USDA, WHICH ARE unless there was a true HEALTH RISK, the information would not be given out, not even to the only authorized agency to access the information which is the CFIA not the packer or the USDA . Just Maybe, the USDA saw that there was no use in putting in an OFFICIAL REQUEST to the CFIA AS THIS WAS NOT A TRUE HEALTH ISSUE THAT WAS RISKING ANYONES LIFE. Both statements may be true and nobody is lieing. except for you two, about a Canadian poster on Cattle Today calling me a liar. But then when has the truth ever mattered to you two. JUST ANOTHER HOLE IN OLDTIMER'S AND HAYMAKER CREDIBILITIY!!
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


BTW Oldtimer you might want to tell that Cattle Today poster that I said I was in Regina nowhere did I say the information came from the SSGA office in REGINA. :wink:

 

[Anonymous]

Go back further Tammy- he, she ,it said your info was wrong....

Must be getting a little paranoid as you age -eh :wink: :lol: :lol:

 

[Tam]

Go back further Tammy- he, she ,it said your info was wrong....

Must be getting a little paranoid as you age -eh :wink: :lol: :lol:

Not Paranoid just wondering how you twisted what I said to make a poster on another website thinks I lied. :roll: If you had a reputation of bringing the whole untwisted truth to any of your posts I may not have checked. But You can't be trusted even if your credibility depends on it. One check on Cattle Today proved that and I brought the proof with a quote from the very poster you claimed was calling me a liar. :x


And how far back was I to go as I read the whole thread. When you told the poster to come over to Ranchers and call me a liar, his words were

I will not tell Tam she is wrong or a liar because i do not know her sorces and she might be privy to more than i.

The poster said, he was not going to call me a liar but you claimed that is exactly what he was calling me. SO WHO IS THE LIAR Oldtimer????? :x For a ex Deputy Dog you sure don't care much about the truth do you????? :roll:

 

[Anonymous]

Yep- I understand Tam- just another poor educationally deprived, misunderstood Socialist...If he'd have been an American you'd have been down his throat like a sow bear protecting her young.......

But me an Old Haymaker were waiting for him to come over here and whisper sweet nothings to you...Thats the reason we were giving him helpful little hints :wink: :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[HAY MAKER]

Miss Tam,I think you oughta quit this amateur detective work and stick with the facts,there are 7 contraband steers on the south side of the medicine line,wearing canadian tags.
You havent been doing a lil trading have you :shock: :shock: ...............good luck
PS I hope they were as fancy as the ones I was gonna trade you.

 

[Anonymous]

Tell us Haymaker and Oldtimer would you want your industry designed system (if you had one :wink: ) to breech the protocol, they built and sold their system to the producers on, to release information to just anyone that asks? Think about what you are asking the CCIA to do and ask yourself if you would expect your systems data to be kept in confidence as PROMISED or Released to just anyone that puts in a request?

Tam- But this isn't just anyone who puts in a request...This is a US government Agency-- the same country that you want to import live cattle into....The country that put a quarantine on your beef and cattle, but that Canada said they would work with if they loosened up the quarantine restrictions.....

If this had been in the US, with the USDA's proposed NAIS program the info would be readily available because quarantine issues and quarantine violations were named as part of the use of it...

And since there is a legal violation the information would have been available for qualified authorities if it was needed for tracking or ID by either Investigative Subpeona or a Search Warrant.....

I know little of Canadian law- but I'll bet there is a way the courts can get the information if it can be shown a compelling state interest...

You know that was the comedy of the US proposed National ID- the privacy issue and USDA's attempt to promise absolute privacy...

The USDA may have been able to get a law or the info in a private database to remove it from being open viewing under the FOIA but there is no way they could close it off from access of the courts, without a Constitutional admendment- which they wouldn't get...

It doesn't matter who has the data- government agency or private company-- if a crime has been committed or there can be shown government has a compelling state interest- the info is available to the courts/law enforcement thru Investigative Subpeonas and/or Search Warrant...

Not even the President is above court subpeona power which was shown in/ and almost became huge constitutional issues with both Nixon and Clinton ..... Also this year it was shown that nowhere is free from search warrant authority either- when the FBI searched the US Congress offices of Congressman Jefferson...Congress whined and screamed- screamed foul--said they were going to pass laws- but then found they would have to change the Constitution....

 

[Mike]

Tam wrote:

Tell us Haymaker and Oldtimer would you want your industry designed system (if you had one ) to breech the protocol, they built and sold their system to the producers on, to release information to just anyone that asks? Think about what you are asking the CCIA to do and ask yourself if you would expect your systems data to be kept in confidence as PROMISED or Released to just anyone that puts in a request?

I don't have a dog in this hunt but what the hell do you have a tracking system for if you don't allow the animals to be tracked? What good is a tracking system if it ain't used?

It ain't as if just anybody is asking for the info. It's the authorities that are trying to track some cattle.

What's the big deal? Tell them where the cattle came from so they can finish the investigation!

Take some MIDOL too! You'll be glad you did. :lol:

 

[don]

mike that's hilarious. just give out the information because some foreign government wants it to make up for their sorry system. i'm sure you'd support handing out information on private property to any foreign interest that requested it.

 

[Mike]

mike that's hilarious. just give out the information because some foreign government wants it to make up for their sorry system. i'm sure you'd support handing out information on private property to any foreign interest that requested it.

Hilarious huh?

Honest people have nothing to hide.


If you're hiding something I wouldn't want to turn it over either. :lol:

 

[don]

that's a silly argument. you give everyone unfettered access to all the information about yourself; financial, personal, etc. just because you have nothing to hide? isn't that the argument in favour of eavesdropping on domestic phonecalls and e-mails? no right to privacy down there? if usda can't track back through three owners then there's something else wrong. as i said on the other thread if canadian ranchers told uncle sam to spill the beans americans would fight it kicking and screaming and rightfully so. prove the health issue and you might get some cooperation. until then there is no justification. if you go to court you still have to show cause as to why the information should be released.

 

[Mike]

that's a silly argument. you give everyone unfettered access to all the information about yourself; financial, personal, etc. just because you have nothing to hide? isn't that the argument in favour of eavesdropping on domestic phonecalls and e-mails? no right to privacy down there? if usda can't track back through three owners then there's something else wrong. as i said on the other thread if canadian ranchers told uncle sam to spill the beans americans would fight it kicking and screaming and rightfully so. prove the health issue and you might get some cooperation. until then there is no justification. if you go to court you still have to show cause as to why the information should be released.

Wait a minute you idiot. There is nothing at all wrong with the CFIA going to the original owner of the cattle to find out who he sold them to. When the chain of command and the cattle cross the border then give that info to the USDA.

Story over. Health issue or not. A rule was still broken.

 

[don]

but if the rule was broken in the usa it's of no concern to canada. by the way i'm not an idiot and i don't have to call names. you didn't address the right to privacy issues or the fact that it's a foreign govt. requesting the info. i still think that the fact that usda can't trace those animals back south of the line says there's something funny going on. they got further than this faster than this with the bse cow that had more than one state on its passport.

 

[Tam]

Tam wrote:

Tell us Haymaker and Oldtimer would you want your industry designed system (if you had one ) to breech the protocol, they built and sold their system to the producers on, to release information to just anyone that asks? Think about what you are asking the CCIA to do and ask yourself if you would expect your systems data to be kept in confidence as PROMISED or Released to just anyone that puts in a request?

I don't have a dog in this hunt but what the hell do you have a tracking system for if you don't allow the animals to be tracked? What good is a tracking system if it ain't used?

It ain't as if just anybody is asking for the info. It's the authorities that are trying to track some cattle.

What's the big deal? Tell them where the cattle came from so they can finish the investigation!

Take some MIDOL too! You'll be glad you did. :lol:

Mike does it make you feel like a real man to make comments like this one? :roll:

And why don't you tell us the really reason the US Cattlemen don't want a US M'ID system. Could it be because they don't want what is happening to the Canadian producers right now to happen in the US? Confidential Data being demanded for reasons other than the ones the system was design to be used for. These are nothing more than healthy stray animals, we have been told for months how the US system didn't need a system like ours to tell them where their cattle come from. PROVE IT. Trace them back to the border!!! :wink:

 

[Tam]

mike that's hilarious. just give out the information because some foreign government wants it to make up for their sorry system. i'm sure you'd support handing out information on private property to any foreign interest that requested it.

Hilarious huh?

Honest people have nothing to hide.


If you're hiding something I wouldn't want to turn it over either. :lol:

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Say Mike IF honest people have nothing to hide then why hasn't the US Cattle industry implement a National system like ours that can trace US cattle back to the place they were born? :? Isn't it because your US producers don't want anyone to know where your cattle were raise as you might be held accountable for the cattle you raise? Let the trace back on disease die at the packer doors right Mike.
You are a hypocrite and this is nothing more than another example of Do as I say not as I'm willing to do myself.... :roll:

 

[HAY MAKER]

mike that's hilarious. just give out the information because some foreign government wants it to make up for their sorry system. i'm sure you'd support handing out information on private property to any foreign interest that requested it.

Hilarious huh?

Honest people have nothing to hide.


If you're hiding something I wouldn't want to turn it over either. :lol:

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Say Mike IF honest people have nothing to hide then why hasn't the US Cattle industry implement a National system like ours that can trace US cattle back to the place they were born? :? Isn't it because your US producers don't want anyone to know where your cattle were raise as you might be held accountable for the cattle you raise? Let the trace back on disease die at the packer doors right Mike.
You are a hypocrite and this is nothing more than another example of Do as I say not as I'm willing to do myself.... :roll:

Miss Tam with all due respect,I dont think your tracking system is worth a damn,what would you use it for,no one is asking the information to be made public,canadian officials determining who, what, why and where,is all that is being asked,seems to me there oughta be a little logic used here,remember you want access to the American market ? These are the type of instances the Canadians can show they are willing to partner with their American counter parts for the good of the industry,and what do they do ?????????? not a damn thing,except talk about this super sonic IDer :???: :???: ............good luck