Raising Bulls

[PATB]

Give a cowman a bull's BW, current weight and date of birth and he'll tell you if the bull is any good.

:agree:

I guess some folks just like to use numbers that are meaningless to me and most order buyers.

Bull buying or AIing by numbers alone will ruin a cow herd as fast as anything. Keeping the best calves out of your own herd that worked under your management have as good of upside as buying out of a completely different program.

:agree:

 

[RSL]

One thing I've observed with our own herd. It's easier to get to the place you
want to be, than it is to stay there.

Amen.

Katrina, we don't use weaning weight for much of anything here because we don't sell calves at weaning. We want respectable numbers, but we make our money on post weaning gain, cow herd fertility and controlling cow size.

PATB, I agree that using bigger numbers for the sake of bigger numbers can ruin a cowherd, but using the numbers to find cattle that fit our system has payed big dividends here (we don't buy 100+ YWT bulls with +45 milk). Bulls that have worked really well here all tend to have similar type numbers. We look for this range when we head out shopping.

 

[Faster horses]

One thing I've observed with our own herd. It's easier to get to the place you
want to be, than it is to stay there.

Amen.

Katrina, we don't use weaning weight for much of anything here because we don't sell calves at weaning. We want respectable numbers, but we make our money on post weaning gain, cow herd fertility and controlling cow size.

PATB, I agree that using bigger numbers for the sake of bigger numbers can ruin a cowherd, but using the numbers to find cattle that fit our system has payed big dividends here (we don't buy 100+ YWT bulls with +45 milk). Bulls that have worked really well here all tend to have similar type numbers. We look for this range when we head out shopping.

I couldn't agree more. Seems like if you select for good females, the rest
takes care of itself.

 

[3 M L & C]

One thing I've observed with our own herd. It's easier to get to the place you
want to be, than it is to stay there.

Amen.

Katrina, we don't use weaning weight for much of anything here because we don't sell calves at weaning. We want respectable numbers, but we make our money on post weaning gain, cow herd fertility and controlling cow size.

PATB, I agree that using bigger numbers for the sake of bigger numbers can ruin a cowherd, but using the numbers to find cattle that fit our system has payed big dividends here (we don't buy 100+ YWT bulls with +45 milk). Bulls that have worked really well here all tend to have similar type numbers. We look for this range when we head out shopping.

I couldn't agree more. Seems like if you select for good females, the rest
takes care of itself.

It seems around here that everyone has been buying the bigist fastest growing bull and worring about nothing else. Then when keeping their own heifers their herd has slowly got huge. The cows across from my house weigh up to 1700 pounds. They do have some big calves, but not big enough to pay for what they eat all winter. I havn't been in the cattle buisness as long as most, but I can take a lesson from what they done.

 

[Faster horses]

Amen.

Katrina, we don't use weaning weight for much of anything here because we don't sell calves at weaning. We want respectable numbers, but we make our money on post weaning gain, cow herd fertility and controlling cow size.

PATB, I agree that using bigger numbers for the sake of bigger numbers can ruin a cowherd, but using the numbers to find cattle that fit our system has payed big dividends here (we don't buy 100+ YWT bulls with +45 milk). Bulls that have worked really well here all tend to have similar type numbers. We look for this range when we head out shopping.

I couldn't agree more. Seems like if you select for good females, the rest
takes care of itself.

It seems around here that everyone has been buying the bigist fastest growing bull and worring about nothing else. Then when keeping their own heifers their herd has slowly got huge. The cows across from my house weigh up to 1700 pounds. They do have some big calves, but not big enough to pay for what they eat all winter. I havn't been in the cattle buisness as long as most, but I can take a lesson from what they done.

That seems to be the trend, for sure. There are no more 1000# cows--and
maybe they were too small, but then again, maybe not. I've heard it said
that a steer will mature to the same weight as his dam. Most housewives
want nothing to do with a huge carcass.

I think 'efficiency' is the word from grass to table.

 

[GM88]

I couldn't agree more. Seems like if you select for good females, the rest
takes care of itself.

I agree . I go look at cow families of bulls i am thinking of bringing in to my cow herd. I do look at weaning weights , I don't run the cow all year so I can feed the calf and have him grow . The trouble I see with epd's is I have been culling my best cows by the #s. I am using an old blood line with some success and his #s are the s**ts yet the calves have the volume, are thick and the females have milk . RSL hit the nail on the head with cow herd fertility. For a commercial guy nothing is more important then fertility, yet I look through catalogues from other purebred breeders with bulls born from February to September and every month in between. Next we want a str that will go from 80lbs to finished as quick as possible. Sorry for the rant but I guess getting back to this thread if you keep your best calves that fit where you want to take your cow herd, under your management you wont be sorry. You know these cows excelled under your management and hopefully you know the history. I develop my bulls on hay and grass with very little grain so the cost is minimal and they last . I can probably develop 3 of my own for the price of one I buy.

 

[katrina]

One thing I've observed with our own herd. It's easier to get to the place you
want to be, than it is to stay there.

Amen.

Katrina, we don't use weaning weight for much of anything here because we don't sell calves at weaning. We want respectable numbers, but we make our money on post weaning gain, cow herd fertility and controlling cow size.

PATB, I agree that using bigger numbers for the sake of bigger numbers can ruin a cowherd, but using the numbers to find cattle that fit our system has payed big dividends here (we don't buy 100+ YWT bulls with +45 milk). Bulls that have worked really well here all tend to have similar type numbers. We look for this range when we head out shopping.

RSL.

Okay.... it makes sense to a degree, but that mamma cow and had better bring in some weight to weaning time.. Bottom line is how fast the cattle you raise can yield the highest possible in the lest amount of time... Poor cattle will generally weed themselves out if we let them.... :wink: It's always an eye opener to feed your own cattle out...

 

[RSL]

One thing I've observed with our own herd. It's easier to get to the place you
want to be, than it is to stay there.

Amen.

Katrina, we don't use weaning weight for much of anything here because we don't sell calves at weaning. We want respectable numbers, but we make our money on post weaning gain, cow herd fertility and controlling cow size.

PATB, I agree that using bigger numbers for the sake of bigger numbers can ruin a cowherd, but using the numbers to find cattle that fit our system has payed big dividends here (we don't buy 100+ YWT bulls with +45 milk). Bulls that have worked really well here all tend to have similar type numbers. We look for this range when we head out shopping.

RSL.

Okay.... it makes sense to a degree, but that mamma cow and had better bring in some weight to weaning time.. Bottom line is how fast the cattle you raise can yield the highest possible in the lest amount of time... Poor cattle will generally weed themselves out if we let them.... :wink: It's always an eye opener to feed your own cattle out...

Katrina - there are definitely superior cows within our herd compared to other cows in our herd. Our weaning weights are pretty small as we wean very early compared to most (average is 150 days or less most years), as it provides us with the best use of our resource/feed mix. To get big calves we use easy calving SM bulls on our mature straightbred AN cows. Heterosis, strong market for the cattle and as easy to manage as our straight AN (no calving problems). That let's us focus heavily on maternal in the AN side, and put more pressure on growth and REA in the SM side.