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I see some guys find all sorts of excuses to keep calves outta a cow that needs assistance. Sometimes, biting the bullet and saying they will do it themselves leads to more trouble-free cattle,

Same thing when you decide to shorten calving season. IF, and I mean IF, she's getting a fair nutritional chance and doesn't breed back, then send her on her way,

On the banker deal, one problem with forums is the tone of how something is meant isn't always conveyed. I wasn't trying to be mean spirited in any way,

PPRM
 
PPRM said:
I see some guys find all sorts of excuses to keep calves outta a cow that needs assistance. Sometimes, biting the bullet and saying they will do it themselves leads to more trouble-free cattle,

Same thing when you decide to shorten calving season. IF, and I mean IF, she's getting a fair nutritional chance and doesn't breed back, then send her on her way,

On the banker deal, one problem with forums is the tone of how something is meant isn't always conveyed. I wasn't trying to be mean spirited in any way,

PPRM
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I didn't take it as mean spirited, just thought you didn't understand. I got to do some ranch roping with some friends tonight and did well and i'm settin' here with a toddy and in a good mood, so i'm just enjoyin' all i can learn on here! :lol:

I thought that was what you meant about the culling deal. I totally agree. I think too many of us make excuses for our cattle and that's fine, if we are just honest with ourselves about why we keep them around and do what we do.

As Baxter told in a poem, "You got to admit, she knows every waterhole on the range" when the old boy was looking for an excuse not to cull a shell.
 
PPRM said:
I see some guys find all sorts of excuses to keep calves outta a cow that needs assistance. Sometimes, biting the bullet and saying they will do it themselves leads to more trouble-free cattle,

Same thing when you decide to shorten calving season. IF, and I mean IF, she's getting a fair nutritional chance and doesn't breed back, then send her on her way,

On the banker deal, one problem with forums is the tone of how something is meant isn't always conveyed. I wasn't trying to be mean spirited in any way,

PPRM
Click to expand...

Sell your problems...you will always be better off in the long run. In 1998, I started selling any cow that I had to take time to deal with (unless the problem was my fault or presentation calving problems). This past year everything calved unassisted on pasture...including two year old heifers bred to my herd bull.

Reproduction is the most sensitive indicator of functionability. You will spend a lot of dollars managing for a high percent breed back when you have faulty genetics. Shorten your breeding season, then sell the open cow. Today's prices are the perfect time to do this. Then keep the majority of the heifers out of the cow that bred early for replacements. Remember the cow is purpose to be a scavenger.
 
We did just that. When we change our calving to May and June we starting breeding for 45 days. Right away we had a few more opens but we are starting to see better fertility from it. They are breeding up faster and calves are now more uniform than before. We also have alot more live calves to sell because the weather is alot better that time of year.

We used to have some health problems with our calves out of first calf heifers when we calved them in Feb. in the lot. We would check them at night and treat alot of sick little guys. After we switched, we now calve the heifers out in a half section pasture and check sun up and sun down, not at night. No problems either with calving or sickness. If you leave them alone they won't be near as nevous and they will calve better. I think the sickness thing is better due to they are in grass instead of frozen manure, and the cows are milking better because the grass has everything they need in it. They also come in in great shape in the fall. Calving in sink with nature for us has really made it alot easier on the cows and on us.
 
One moment of epiphany I had was with calf sheds when we winter calved. We Didn't have enough to go around so one pen of cows never had any sheds-just straw bales on end for the calves to bed around. Every morning you'd head out to the calf huts to treat the sick calves cause that's where they'd be-never treated a calf in the pen without. I just about wore the hooves off a few horses that first summer we calved late-was droughty and had to calve the first 100 or so cows in the thick bush-rode miles trying to check on them-kept me busy but the cows sure didn't need me.
 
Northern Rancher said:
One moment of epiphany I had was with calf sheds when we winter calved. We Didn't have enough to go around so one pen of cows never had any sheds-just straw bales on end for the calves to bed around. Every morning you'd head out to the calf huts to treat the sick calves cause that's where they'd be-never treated a calf in the pen without. I just about wore the hooves off a few horses that first summer we calved late-was droughty and had to calve the first 100 or so cows in the thick bush-rode miles trying to check on them-kept me busy but the cows sure didn't need me.
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"the cows sure didn't need me".

That is probably the most understated sentence in this whole thread! As an older rancher said one time, "I didn't get them cows to make a livin' for them, I got them to make a livin' for me"!

I think too many times we get in the way of all of our animals, whether it be cows or horses or any thing else we've domesticated. Unless they are really sick or need feed or protection from the elements, they are better off we we give them room and leave them alone.

Come to think of it, that pretty well describes what most of us want! :lol:
 
I always like to say I'm not running a day care.When spring grass comes I haul all cows to grass some that havent calved yet they get checked once a week just show up and count the calves.I have done it that way for 10 years have only lost 1 cow and no calves doing it that way about 10 head per year.
 
I feel that I have one of the best calving facilities a man could ask for :D - - - provided by nature. I have a 16 acre hill that can be seen from the sun room on the back of the house :) . I stock pile grass there in the fall and winter and turn the cows in the first of April 8) ( I turn in bulls on the 4th of July) I check ( walk) the cattle twice or more a day and they are used to it so they pay little attention to me :? . Whenever a calf is born the cow and calf are moved into a 20' X 20' pen at the back of the field, calf is tagged and they are turned into a clean pasture :D . After about the second calf most of the cows seem to understand my system and will take the calf back to the pen to wait for me - - - I can't remember the last calf we have treated for any problem :D :D :D . I have neighors who pamper their animals with buildings :( ( I feel well intentioned bacteria factories) and feel I abandon my animals :???: but the results are what matters - - - this year my calf crop is 36 calves ( all live) out of 32 cows. :D :D :D
 
There's so many variables and differences in operations, as well as long term goals and size and diversity. It's interesting to see what everybody's doing, though. Our winter grazing is as likely as not to snow over, and get a damn tough crust on top. We calve mostly in March, replacement heifers in mid Feb., and have real good percentages, but work our ass off as well. Need to have the cattle work done in time to be farmers, too. Maybe the thing to do would be to plant the farmground to pasture and run several hundred more cows. :???: When I posted a while back about having only about one day off all summer, I wasn't shi**in' about it much. Would be nice if the workload was a little lighter sometimes. The outfits around here that don't keep close track of their calving cows end up with some big bone piles that don't always get mentioned, losses to coyotes as well.
 
I agree with Soapweed why spend the money to listen to someone who never worked on anything other than tile flooring and who missed out on the outdoors, the fresh air and most important the fresh "GREEN" that we all come to know as the stuff you slide in, when that old cow is hot on yer tail. We can spend the money supposedly that you would spend on a course like that , to take better care and pay fer the feed as well.
 
I just have to put my 2 cents worth into this one. When we were calving heifers in February, my hired man quit to take a job closer to his family. It got down to 50 below and we had no help. We worked out butts off until it warmed up and by then I thought we got through the worst of it with no help, why put up with help that never does enough to justify the cost so we did not hire a replacement. That was 9 years ago. Then it became clear that most of the time I was having hired help do things to keep them busy, most of the things did not make the ranch any money, it usually cost something. There are times when I would love to have somebody else here so we could leave (such as when we were in Deadwood) but we do what we have to and get by. After another bad spring calving with no help, we started wondering why are we doing this? That is when we started fall calving. In these hills you end up over feeding the cows because of pine needle abortions so why fight it. We now can use the pine trees for protection for pairs and our feed bill is the same as it was before. Now we let them calve on their own, out is pastures, no night checks, no pens to clean, no scours, calving is fun. It is common for us to wean 100% calf crop without all of the labor. We are AIing on the shortest days of the year not the longest, and heat detection is easier when they have frost on their backs! We will lose the occasional calf from an abnormal presentation, but most of the cows are better off if we leave them alone and let them be cows. Neighbors still think I'm nuts because they are still in the mind set that weaning weight is the answer, not the cost of getting the high weaning weight. They still think that our weaning weights that are less than 500 are unacceptable. We also wean in February and then run the calves on grass until September and they leave here at 700, leave the feedlot late February when the market is usually the highest of the year and we do this with very little labor. We don't get to leave the place together very often, but then you think about it, other people go on vacation to do the things we get to do every day but we call it work. :!:
 
i agree with SW. I have been moving my cows to fall calving. It is very easy. And i can actually lower cow cost by doing it. I calve them in Aug and Sep adn wean around Christmas. We usaully get a 94-98% conseption rate and wean about 98-102% of the cows that were bred. The only problem we have is geting heifers breed, but by haveing a lower percent pregnecy rate we get rid of anything that is not very fertile.

I calve the cows in 6-10feet tall sudan-grass. I can get by onless than an acre per cow from calving until the first killing frost and can turn out on alfalfa. After we wean the calves the cows can go out to corn stalks and run until spring. My very cheapest feed is stalks and the fall cows allow me to take more advantage of that longer.
I still will continue to have some march born calves to take advantage of useing bulls twice and to run those calves on the higher quality forage in front of the fall cows that don't require as much nutrition as the pairs.
 
I don't see where vacation's are that hard to take if you run beef cows there is plenty of time you can scedule a vacation.Funny thing about work it will be there tomorrow.
 
I moved my calving bacxk from fall to summer because I didn't like a'i'ing during deer season. I know for one thing I ain't going to be laying on my deathbed wishing I'd thawed out one more frozen calf or tubed one more with scours. My old neighbor put it best 'The only people who should work at night are whores and thieves.'
 
This is really a great topic, especially since I have to write an article about one of these profit seminars in The Dalles, OR. Has anyone heard of the presenter, Dave Pratt? He owns the Ranching for Profit school.

I know at least one person on ranchers.net is from Oregon - PPRM, I believe. Are you planning on attending?

Also, what kind of questions do you guys think I should ask Dave Pratt?
 
Hey Freelance,

Good to see you. I won't be there. I haven't ever been to one of these seminars, but I think the big question would be with the amount of diversity of feed in our state and the tremendous number of ways of feeding cattle, are they saying there is a one size fits all solution????

I'd also look at any individuals background, mainly looking for if they ever made money on cattle where they were the ones putting the money up. Not sayingthis guy hasn't, but that speaks volumes for credibility.

Nicky is from Baker County, Hangin A from north of Pasco, you might ask them,


PPRM
 

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