Random Musings From A Random Mind

[Big Muddy rancher]

Tam- I'll make you a deal-- I'll work as hard to open the border for the Canadian herd as you Canucks did/are to open Canada up to the US herd..

That means I'll start in about 10 years and only after our teat is caught in a wringer and we need Canada to bail our butts out :wink: ......

Oldtimer I imported bulls to Canada with alot less red tape then it takes to get cattle to the US . Heck it didn't take as long as it does just to get across some days now. Slaughter cattle could have acessed outr plants at less distance then to some of our own. It wasn't as much of a resrtiction as you make it out to be. Plan ahead. Remember my contrand cattle with the Montana ear tags and brands. They were inspected at the border and at least by one other brand inspecter.

 

[Tam]

Tam- I'll make you a deal-- I'll work as hard to open the border for the Canadian herd as you Canucks did/are to open Canada up to the US herd..

That means I'll start in about 10 years and only after our teat is caught in a wringer and we need Canada to bail our butts out :wink: ......

What wringer were our teats in ten years ago Oldtimer? Ten years ago was about the time frame when the CCA and the NCBA started working together to get the import restrictions lifted. But by your lame information on the topic it wasn't until BSE hit. Oldtimer as I said before do all of us a favor and get a new information source.

 

[Anonymous]

Tam- I'll make you a deal-- I'll work as hard to open the border for the Canadian herd as you Canucks did/are to open Canada up to the US herd..

That means I'll start in about 10 years and only after our teat is caught in a wringer and we need Canada to bail our butts out :wink: ......

What wringer were our teats in ten years ago Oldtimer? Ten years ago was about the time frame when the CCA and the NCBA started working together to get the import restrictions lifted. But by your lame information on the topic it wasn't until BSE hit. Oldtimer as I said before do all of us a favor and get a new information source.

It takes 10 years to drop a protectionist border barrier :???:

Now you see why some down here think we should wait 10 years to open the Canadian border :wink: As far as I know Canada still hasn't dropped the rule yet.. When your teat was wrung up and you couldn't sell your cattle because you gave your slaughter industry away to the American owned multinational corporations Canada was promising anything- but I understand they still can't work out the details to have a FAIR trade border- and that is one of the reasons NCBA was opposing the opening of the border to OTM's.......

 

[Tam]

I thought you were SH's deciple. We don't blame Canada, we are packer blamers.

You'll blame anyone just so you can distract attention away from the real problems. You blame Canada for BSE and point out our faults so nobody takes the time to look at yours.
Leo McDonnell told U.S. consumers and producers that Canada has a chronic problem with their Meat and Bone Meal (MBM) feed ban and that it is ineffective. Then this in the R-CALF comments to the USDA

Under no circumstances should the United States accept any cattle, beef or beef products, from countries that do not maintain identical or more stringent safeguard measures that is presently required or presently proposed in the United States which measures have been enforced for at least as long as the United States.

Then this from Leo McDonnell

"we know if we are going to keep consumer confidence we are going to maintain some of the highest standards in the world to make sure that BSE is not introduced into this country. And we are going to make sure we have the best meat and bone meal ban in this country in place. So if for some reason we did find a case we can stand and look our consumers right in the eye and say, don't worry we have had these firewalls in place for years, the only country prior to having a case of BSE to have these firewalls in place for so many years. And we did it to make sure if a case was ever found it was a non-issue. If we look them right in the eye and say that I will guarantee they will keep eating beef".

But that is not the story that R-CALF is using now is it. All we hear now is how if we're going to import we should at least have the right to have the same safeguards in place as Canada has had for years.
You blame the packers for everything the could possibably effect the price you get for your cattle. Have you ever thought maybe it is your marketing ability is where the problem lies :wink:
You blame the US governmemt for lack of safeguards but when they do impliment safeguards you have big problems in compliance. Then you blame the FDA because they aren't enforcing the rules. It is up to the industry to safeguard their livelyhoods but you seem to think it is the Governments responsibility to protect you from yourself.
You blame the government , packers and retailers for the delays in M'COOL but maybe they are delaying it as they see how unenforceable the law is as written and that it will only cost you a bundle with really no beneifit without the missing component M"ID". But who is to blame that the US beef industry is years behind in getting a workable NATIONAL M"ID" system in place? R-CALF brags about how they got it taken out and now the fact you don't have a system is coming back to bite you in the backside. Kind of sucks when your industry has fallen so far behind that you have to lash out at everyone for your own mistakes. I'm not saying we don't have some work to do on our industry, the work to improve is never done but the fact remains that your blaming is only to distract from all the work you have to do to catch up with us as we move forward.
By the way the meeting we were to the other day I found it very interesting when the rep from CCIA (Canadian Cattle Identification Agengy) said that there is a State in the US that is using the CANADIAN BEEF INDUSTRY ID system. What is with that???? :lol:

 

[Tam]

Tam- I'll make you a deal-- I'll work as hard to open the border for the Canadian herd as you Canucks did/are to open Canada up to the US herd..

That means I'll start in about 10 years and only after our teat is caught in a wringer and we need Canada to bail our butts out :wink: ......

What wringer were our teats in ten years ago Oldtimer? Ten years ago was about the time frame when the CCA and the NCBA started working together to get the import restrictions lifted. But by your lame information on the topic it wasn't until BSE hit. Oldtimer as I said before do all of us a favor and get a new information source.

It takes 10 years to drop a protectionist border barrier :???:

Now you see why some down here think we should wait 10 years to open the Canadian border :wink: As far as I know Canada still hasn't dropped the rule yet.. When your teat was wrung up and you couldn't sell your cattle because you gave your slaughter industry away to the American owned multinational corporations Canada was promising anything- but I understand they still can't work out the details to have a FAIR trade border- and that is one of the reasons NCBA was opposing the opening of the border to OTM's.......

Ten years from May 2003 is May 2013 Ten years from June 2005 is June 2015 Oldtimer. If the border from Canada stays closed for ten years from the find of BSE in our Native herd so should it from the US. Maybe even longer in the US as we all know your safeguards weren't what Leo said they were when he said the US has the highest standards in the World and the safest beef. :wink:
We were told the other day that while you guys are bitching about paying checkoff the Austrailians raised their checkoff to $5 US and designated $1.50 of the checkoff to defending their ASIAN MARKET SHARE. I guess if our borders are closed for ten years because of R-CALF crap the Aussies can save their buck fifty. If they bank that money just look at the war chest they will have to defend a market they have taken over.
By the way Oldtimer it was 8 years ago that Canada upgraded their feed bans to restrict Chicken litter but the USDA is still looking at that little ruling aren't they? How much longer do you think it will take with R-CALF tieing them up in court everytime they turn around. The CFIA have according to what I have heard been running trials and test to see if it would affect our herd if they lift the restrictions. They don't want to lift them and then have a crash and have to put a bunch of animals down because a sick US cow came in and infected our herd. Remember Oldtimer Annaplas and Blue are contagious if the season is right unlike BSE.

Please don't use the word fair deal Oldtimer as the US would know a fair deal if it bit them and even if it was a fair deal when it was negotiated they would find a way to flip the tables.

 

[Anonymous]

Tam- Remember we have a consumer market that can consume our beef IF we don't import from every Tom, Dick, and Harry podunk country....Without the Canadians having to ride our shirtails we can survive.....

It is sad to see you cuss your native country that gave you a life and an education ( as good as it can be up there in that Class C country :wink: :lol: )--- Did you give up your citizenship when you went north or are you one of those doubledippers that play both sides- which ever happens to be best when it suits you? :???:

 

[Northern Rancher]

Yep oldtimer when you can't win with facts wave the flag-what an old fool-maybe she found somebody who can think on his own not be an r-calf sheep. Class C my ash-CLASSY more like it.

 

[Tam]

Tam- Remember we have a consumer market that can consume our beef IF we don't import from every Tom, Dick, and Harry podunk country....Without the Canadians having to ride our shirtails we can survive.....

It is sad to see you cuss your native country that gave you a life and an education ( as good as it can be up there in that Class C country :wink: :lol: )--- Did you give up your citizenship when you went north or are you one of those doubledippers that play both sides- which ever happens to be best when it suits you? :???:

Well we wondered why we were still taking beef when BSE hit and our markets were closed and the answer we got and I would guess the same is true for the US is, as long as you are a member of the WTO you have obligations. One of those obligations is to except a certain amount of exports from other countries even if we don't need them. So just how far would you get with cutting all your imports Oldtimer. Not that the US has ever worried to much about their obligations once they sign an agreement. But I think messing with your obligations to the World Trade Organization wouldn't be a move the US would do for the US Beef industry.
I may have been born in the US Oldtimer but my parents gave me life not the US. And if you know so much you would know that once born in the US you are always a US citizen. After I wrote for and was sworn in as a Canadian citizen I went through the port at Regway, the officer asked me what my citizenship was and I proudly said Canadian. I was promply told once born in the US, in the eyes of the government you are always US, no matter where you swear citizenship to. I chose Canada and if I had to do it again you can bet I would. I love my family but how the US chooses to deal with some of their trade issues is frankly embarassing and makes me reluctant to admit I'm from there. That education you say the US gave me taught me that honesty is the best policy WHAT HAS HAPPEN TO THE POLICY OLDTIMER?

 

[Anonymous]

Tam- You are lucky :???: - You now have 2 government teats to suck off!!!!! You can float whichever way the wind blows.....

Used to be you had to decide which country your loyalties laid with..In WWII, before Dec. 7, 1941 when US citizens went to Canada to fight for the British Commonwealth they lost their US citizenship....New world I guess :???: - the way US immigration laws are anymore, nobody pays attention to it...To my Grandpa it was the major thing in his life to be an AMERICAN CITIZEN......

And as far as honesty- Where anywhere in WTO rules or NAFTA does it say we (the US cattle producer) have to lower our income to support the Canadian producer- that they should be allowed to ride on an industry built by the US producer...Canadians don't even have enough selfconfidence to want their beef labeled--Fought for 10+ years and kept on an artificial trade barrier because they didn't want to compete with US calves- and now that the border has partially reopened are happy as pigs in sh*t and seem reluctant to even want to develop their own industry.....What is the fear?

And don't give the horsepoop that old Big Muddy and CCA have been fighting to open the border- don't hold water when you condemn everything that you expect R-CALF should have accomplished to close the feed ban loopholes... R-CALF's only been trying for a couple years- CCA has had 10+years- yet according to you and your anti homeland bias its all R-CALF's fault :???:

I don't buy it!!!!!!

 

[Anonymous]

OT: "Where anywhere in WTO rules or NAFTA does it say we (the US cattle producer) have to lower our income to support the Canadian producer- that they should be allowed to ride on an industry built by the US producer."

The Canadian border is opened now and we have the highest feeder cattle prices ever recorded. How do you explain that in light of your "supporting the Canadian producer" statement?

Then if you were successful in outvoting the U.S. consumer and banning Canadian imports, did you honestly think Canadian beef was going to disappear off the world market? Canada would have simply captured that same share of our export markets. Would you wave your victory flag then? Probably! Too ignorant to know what had just occurred.

You need to be proud of being an R-CULT card carrying member. You're as ignorant on these issues as they are. You can't even see the most obvious fact that cattle prices are higher now than when the border was closed proving R-CULT's ignorance on cattle markets.


~SH~

 

[Anonymous]

OT: "Where anywhere in WTO rules or NAFTA does it say we (the US cattle producer) have to lower our income to support the Canadian producer- that they should be allowed to ride on an industry built by the US producer."

The Canadian border is opened now and we have the highest feeder cattle prices ever recorded. How do you explain that in light of your "supporting the Canadian producer" statement?


~SH~

How really open is it? No OTM's or OTM beef- all live cattle coming south must be segregated- in USDA inspected lots that call for a telephone book worth of paperwork- hauled in sealed trucks...Heifers must be preg checked and quarantined for 45 days before preg checking.. All of which adds to the cost- which helps keep the US cattle worth more..The list goes on and on..

 

[Anonymous]

OT: "How really open is it? No OTM's or OTM beef- all live cattle coming south must be segregated- in USDA inspected lots that call for a telephone book worth of paperwork- hauled in sealed trucks...Heifers must be preg checked and quarantined for 45 days before preg checking.. All of which adds to the cost- which helps keep the US cattle worth more..The list goes on and on.."

Don't try to snowball me with an "ILLUSION" of reduced Canadian imports.

GIVE ME THE NUMBERS OT!

What is our current level of Canadian beef imports as compared to pre BSE times?

Give me a percentage OT!

What percentage of our U.S. beef consumption is normally composed of Canadian imports and what is that percentage now?

LET'S PUT THIS INTO PROPER PERSPECTIVE AS OPPOSED TO CREATING ANOTHER "R-CULT ILLUSION".

Bring the numbers OT or admit that you don't know.



~SH~

 

[Sandhusker]

SH, "The Canadian border is opened now and we have the highest feeder cattle prices ever recorded. How do you explain that in light of your "supporting the Canadian producer" statement?"

There's many factors that determine price, but you pick one and try to make your case? :roll: :lol:

SH, "Then if you were successful in outvoting the U.S. consumer and banning Canadian imports, did you honestly think Canadian beef was going to disappear off the world market? Canada would have simply captured that same share of our export markets. Would you wave your victory flag then? Probably! Too ignorant to know what had just occurred."

So the US consumer has voted on Canadian beef? :shock: How do they do that? How can they tell the difference between US and Canadian so they can vote? How many even know that we import from Canada? You've got to quit getting your information from that white rabbit.

 

[Tam]

OT: "Where anywhere in WTO rules or NAFTA does it say we (the US cattle producer) have to lower our income to support the Canadian producer- that they should be allowed to ride on an industry built by the US producer."

The Canadian border is opened now and we have the highest feeder cattle prices ever recorded. How do you explain that in light of your "supporting the Canadian producer" statement?


~SH~

How really open is it? No OTM's or OTM beef- all live cattle coming south must be segregated- in USDA inspected lots that call for a telephone book worth of paperwork- hauled in sealed trucks...Heifers must be preg checked and quarantined for 45 days before preg checking.. All of which adds to the cost- which helps keep the US cattle worth more..The list goes on and on..

Gee Oldtimer before the border open as it is, we told you R-CALFers that the regs and the cost would slow the amount coming into the US and the fact we were current with our cattle would also limit the amount coming down. But did you know it all R-CALFers listen NO. You still insisted that if the border was to open under the final rule rules the flood of Canadian cattle would destroy the US Cattle prices. Now here you are spouting the regulation and the cost of them are the reasons for no price destroying flood and the US cattle are worth more. Not only did we not destroy your prices your cattle are at historical highs. Stinks when your know it all fear mongering claims come back to bite you doesn't it? Kind of like the know it all fear mongering claims of our system being substandard to the US system then having to admit we have rules that you think is only right you impliment to protect yourself from the spread of BSE. That makes two strikes and the third was R-CALFs claim that we weren't doing the right testing and the US was doing a superior job with their 150,000 more head annually. , just to have the USDA numbers prove you wrong and have the USDA find a positive BSE case seven months late on a FORCED RETEST, using the proper confirmatory test, the one that Canada and the rest of the countries use. These are just a few of the strikes against the credibility of the Know it all R-CALF camp. But the biggest strike was the one where they stood with radical consumer groups with Anti beef ties( :wink: just for you Sandhusker) and claimed not enough was being done to protect consumers from the risk of tainted IMPORTED beef. Only to have them say the US has safeguards to protect the consumers if BSE was ever found in the US herd. Safeguards that have loopholes that Canada safeguards don't.

Sandhusker

There's many factors that determine price, but you pick one and try to make your case?

Where were these other factors when R-CALF was claiming a flood of Canadian cattle would destroy those prices?
Sandhusker

How many even know that we import from Canada?

It has been R-CALFs only reason for living for the past two and a half years to educate the consumer where their beef comes from and that they shouldn't eat tainted imported beef. Now you are telling us that the US consumer still don't know the US imports from Canada. that should tell you just how much the consumers listen to the rantings of a leader of a radical beef organization that wouldn't know the truth if it bit him. If they don't know by now it should also tell you just how much they care about where their beef comes from. And if they are still eating beef that should tell you that they must trust that the USDA is doing their job to make sure the beef they are eating is safe.

 

[Sandhusker]

Tam, I think it's a pretty good bet that most US consumers don't know that we import cattle from Canada or anyplace else. I think its a safe bet that most of them have never heard of R-CALF or NCBA.

Do most people trust the USDA? I suppose so, but I'll wager they don't pay near as much attention to their actions as we do.

 

[Big Muddy rancher]

Tam, I think it's a pretty good bet that most US consumers don't know that we import cattle from Canada or anyplace else. I think its a safe bet that most of them have never heard of R-CALF or NCBA.

Do most people trust the USDA? I suppose so, but I'll wager they don't pay near as much attention to their actions as we do.

If they don't know you are importing beef then why are they demanding M'COOL.?

 

[Sandhusker]

Tam, I think it's a pretty good bet that most US consumers don't know that we import cattle from Canada or anyplace else. I think its a safe bet that most of them have never heard of R-CALF or NCBA.

Do most people trust the USDA? I suppose so, but I'll wager they don't pay near as much attention to their actions as we do.

If they don't know you are importing beef then why are they demanding M'COOL.?

I'M demanding M-COOL

 

[Tam]

Tam, I think it's a pretty good bet that most US consumers don't know that we import cattle from Canada or anyplace else. I think its a safe bet that most of them have never heard of R-CALF or NCBA.

Do most people trust the USDA? I suppose so, but I'll wager they don't pay near as much attention to their actions as we do.

If they don't know you are importing beef then why are they demanding M'COOL.?

I'M demanding M-COOL

So you are demanding something on behalf of the US consumers that they haven't asked for. Gee I thought all this time it was the consumers demanding it and here it is you Sandhusker. If they haven't asked for it will they be willing to pay the extra little fee it will take to label it or will they say you producers asked for it you pay for it?
Some interesting quote from R-CALF

Two-Year Delay of Mandatory COOL Approved by Congressional Leaders
WASHINGTON, D.C. (October 27, 2005)
"We urge that our champions continue to press for greater congressional and public debate on the issue," Beer said. "We know that if fully debated in the light of day, COOL will pass because it is popular with the American people."

House Ag Approprations Committee Makes Quiet Attempt to Delay Country-of-Origin Labeling
BILLINGS, Mont. (May 18, 2005) —
"As boxed beef imports continue to climb to record levels, there has never been a more intense level of competition or such a huge mix of products in the marketplace," said Chuck Kiker, R-CALF USA Region V Director. "To remain competitive, U.S. producers need the ability to utilize mandatory COOL as a tool to remain No. 1 in the global marketplace, and this tool is the one that's most widely supported by consumers and producers alike."

R-CALF USA: Responds to U.S. Animal Identification Plan Feb. 2004

In its conclusion, R-CALF USA recommended that 1) mandatory country of origin labeling be implemented quickly so the domestic cattle industry can immediately begin meeting consumer demands for origin-verified beef;

"Call for Voluntary COOL Too Little, Too Late" Jam 2004
R-CALF USA is co-hosting a Washington, D.C. fly-in on January 20, 2004, to encourage the U.S. Senate to remove the present language in the Omnibus Appropriations Package that effectively kills mandatory COOL by delaying its implementation until 2006. "U.S. cattle producers and consumers need and deserve COOL immediately and we plan to help them get it," Beer said.

Ag and Consumers Groups say to Bush, "We want COOL" Dec 2003

(Washington, D.C.) A coalition of 166 agriculture and consumer groups representing over 50 million Americans, including R-CALF United Stockgrowers of America (R-CALF USA), sent a letter to President Bush today stating that a two-year delay of the mandatory country of origin labeling (COOL) law is not supported by the overwhelming majority of agriculture producers or consumers and urges the President to oppose Congressional efforts to delay country of origin labeling.

Someone is lieing here if Sandhusker is right about the US consumer not knowing about imported beef and he is the one demanding M"COOL" Then R-CALF lied for the past 3 years about US consumer demanding M'COOL so they know where their beef comes from. OR Sandhusker lied and the US consumer do know about imported beef and they are choosing to eat beef even though they don't know if the beef they are eating is Imported or not. But trust the USDA is doing their job which is making sure the beef sold in the US is safe whether imported or not.

 

[Econ101]

OT: "Where anywhere in WTO rules or NAFTA does it say we (the US cattle producer) have to lower our income to support the Canadian producer- that they should be allowed to ride on an industry built by the US producer."

The Canadian border is opened now and we have the highest feeder cattle prices ever recorded. How do you explain that in light of your "supporting the Canadian producer" statement?

Then if you were successful in outvoting the U.S. consumer and banning Canadian imports, did you honestly think Canadian beef was going to disappear off the world market? Canada would have simply captured that same share of our export markets. Would you wave your victory flag then? Probably! Too ignorant to know what had just occurred.

You need to be proud of being an R-CULT card carrying member. You're as ignorant on these issues as they are. You can't even see the most obvious fact that cattle prices are higher now than when the border was closed proving R-CULT's ignorance on cattle markets.


~SH~

Being all for Canadian producers and not Canadian packers just doesn't sit well with you, does it SH? Talk about being ignorant about what just happened!!!

Allowing cattlemen to market their own beef after slaughter and get the services of a packer up for bid would be one way of solving the problem. As long as the packers control both sides of the deal, and abuse that power, there will always be problems with cattlemen and packers. Many feeders custom feed. Why not custom packers? Let the packers compete on price for the services they provide--- cutting and packing.

 

[Sandhusker]

Tam, when did consumers ask for CAB?

Quote:
Ag and Consumers Groups say to Bush, "We want COOL" Dec 2003

(Washington, D.C.) A coalition of 166 agriculture and consumer groups representing over 50 million Americans, including R-CALF United Stockgrowers of America (R-CALF USA), sent a letter to President Bush today stating that a two-year delay of the mandatory country of origin labeling (COOL) law is not supported by the overwhelming majority of agriculture producers or consumers and urges the President to oppose Congressional efforts to delay country of origin labeling.


Tam, "Someone is lieing here if Sandhusker is right about the US consumer not knowing about imported beef and he is the one demanding M"COOL" Then R-CALF lied for the past 3 years about US consumer demanding M'COOL so they know where their beef comes from. OR Sandhusker lied and the US consumer do know about imported beef and they are choosing to eat beef even though they don't know if the beef they are eating is Imported or not. But trust the USDA is doing their job which is making sure the beef sold in the US is safe whether imported or not."

I don't think anybody is lying, Tam. I think the problem is somebody can't understand what was written or is trying to make something out of nothing. :? I"ll explain it for you. There were 166 groups. The combined membership of those groups is 50 Million.