Red Hide Discount

[Faster horses]

Glad you were on the ball. That is FRAUD, and should be treated as such.

 

[DOC HARRIS]

As the technology for ultrasound etc. increases the "off" colored cattle will slide into whatever slots they are most valuable in.

Some white cattle have a good propensity to marble, just not all of them.

Some red cattle are very efficient, just not all of them.

The Angus thing was kind of self made. Black and Angus were discounted for years. Other breeds liked not being visibly similar to those "little blacks".

Funny how 30 years of experience and a little program like CAB changed the beef business.

Not just 30 years - My dad said the Angus Breed started this back in the 50's

Your Dad is right! The effort to change the "Pony" Angus (Primarily "Sunbeam" breeding) from destroying the Angus breed began in the mid '40's and Thank God it did! Sam Fullerton and Ralph L. Smith and others just about did an "Attila the Hun" job on the Angus Breed!

DOC HARRIS

 

[Big Muddy rancher]

When I started my cow herd I tried some Brangus bulls from a breeder from Seven Persons ALTA. He switched to Brangus in the 1950's because Angus were getting to small. I tried the Brangus because I thought the Angus were getting to big. I only used them 1 year and found the lines of Angus I was looking for.

 

[OldDog/NewTricks]

As the technology for ultrasound etc. increases the "off" colored cattle will slide into whatever slots they are most valuable in.

Some white cattle have a good propensity to marble, just not all of them.

Some red cattle are very efficient, just not all of them.

The Angus thing was kind of self made. Black and Angus were discounted for years. Other breeds liked not being visibly similar to those "little blacks".

Funny how 30 years of experience and a little program like CAB changed the beef business.

Not just 30 years - My dad said the Angus Breed started this back in the 50's

Your Dad is right! The effort to change the "Pony" Angus (Primarily "Sunbeam" breeding) from destroying the Angus breed began in the mid '40's and Thank God it did! Sam Fullerton and Ralph L. Smith and others just about did an "Attila the Hun" job on the Angus Breed!

DOC HARRIS

HEY DOC.
GLAD THERE'S SOMEONE TO BACK-UP HISTORY as I recall it

 

[OldDog/NewTricks]

When I started my cow herd I tried some Brangus bulls from a breeder from Seven Persons ALTA. He switched to Brangus in the 1950's because Angus were getting to small. I tried the Brangus because I thought the Angus were getting to big. I only used them 1 year and found the lines of Angus I was looking for.

In 58 I had girlfriend ties to Bruce Church Ranches out of Salinas - I was in the USAF and on orders to Vincent Air Base Yuma, Arizons - it came to light that I had experance with "Lucky Hereford" - "Exmore Hereford" - and the "Richman Ranch" Show Strings I was hired to help set up their Brangus Show String for Yuma Fair - - They were breeding Brangus with theirr Reg Angus - Reg Brauma 5/8's Angus 3/8's Brauma - - It was a learning time.

USAF - Yuma was rough duty - at the Fair I got Teamed up with the Air Base Commander in the Team Roping - - Soon I was riding 2 colts for him and "HAD TO" spend most of my Air Force time at the Ranch.

Summers in Yuma we would start working the Feed Lot on horse back - - at 2:00 AM by 7:30 it was too Hot for the Horses.

I had been taught to Walk Your Horse out to cool them - then Hose them down

In Yuma I learn't to cool them guick - hose them down then walk them out - when an Old Timer said:

Ya trying to kill at horse! Turn ta hose on-m!

 

[DOC HARRIS]

Not just 30 years - My dad said the Angus Breed started this back in the 50's

Your Dad is right! The effort to change the "Pony" Angus (Primarily "Sunbeam" breeding) from destroying the Angus breed began in the mid '40's and Thank God it did! Sam Fullerton and Ralph L. Smith and others just about did an "Attila the Hun" job on the Angus Breed!

DOC HARRIS

HEY DOC.
GLAD THERE'S SOMEONE TO BACK-UP HISTORY as I recall it

OD/NT - Also Ralph L. Smiith did the same "tax break" stuff with the Shorthorn Breed in the same time frame - '40's and '50's. He imported a White Shorthorn Bull from Scotland named Sni-A-Bar Control by Pitodrie Upright. Control was long bodied and short legged - sucker came up about to my waist! Smith owned Sni-A-Bar Farm in Grain Valley, Mo. just East of Kansas City. He also owned an Angus Farm at Lone Jack, MO. just about 15 mi. south of Grain Valley at the same time!! He wasn't satisfied to wreck one breed - he had two work on two at the same time! I didn't like that man! :twisted:

DOC HARRIS

 

[Jinglebob]

Your Dad is right! The effort to change the "Pony" Angus (Primarily "Sunbeam" breeding) from destroying the Angus breed began in the mid '40's and Thank God it did! Sam Fullerton and Ralph L. Smith and others just about did an "Attila the Hun" job on the Angus Breed!

DOC HARRIS

HEY DOC.
GLAD THERE'S SOMEONE TO BACK-UP HISTORY as I recall it

OD/NT - Also Ralph L. Smiith did the same "tax break" stuff with the Shorthorn Breed in the same time frame - '40's and '50's. He imported a White Shorthorn Bull from Scotland named Sni-A-Bar Control by Pitodrie Upright. Control was long bodied and short legged - sucker came up about to my waist! Smith owned Sni-A-Bar Farm in Grain Valley, Mo. just East of Kansas City. He also owned an Angus Farm at Lone Jack, MO. just about 15 mi. south of Grain Valley at the same time!! He wasn't satisfied to wreck one breed - he had two work on two at the same time I didn't like that man! :twisted:

DOC HARRIS

Sooo, you two seem to know a lot of history. Do you know who it was that found that Friesien cattle matched the blood tests on black Angus cattle, and brought them in to make "black angus" that were bigger and made more milk?

 

[Juan]

One interesting piece of info I just read on another site a little while ago is that there is now a test approved by the usda that has been approved to determine (for the cab program i would imagine) if the calf has the right percentage of black angus in their heritage.

At the present time this test would be very useful as more and more breeds have turned into the traditional solid black and solid red, however I am not sure how reliable the test is as it is apparently based on so many of the main angus sires used in the past looking at different polymorphisms/alleles present in the calf in question. At the same time the test would still have to be around the 20-25 dollar mark which --does this make it profitable for producers to test commercial animals when they are gong to be slaughered anyways

This test compares dna from one bull to dna from 275"knowm angus"!!!
All this can tell you is your animal is no more mixed up than those it is compared to! :???: :???: :???:

 

[DOC HARRIS]

Sooo, you two seem to know a lot of history. Do you know who it was that found that Friesien cattle matched the blood tests on black Angus cattle, and brought them in to make "black angus" that were bigger and made more milk?

Sorry - Not a clue!

DOC HARRIS

 

[OldDog/NewTricks]

Sooo, you two seem to know a lot of history. Do you know who it was that found that Friesien cattle matched the blood tests on black Angus cattle, and brought them in to make "black angus" that were bigger and made more milk?

Sorry - Not a clue!

DOC HARRIS

I don't know ether!

The breeder in San Ls Obispo or Santa Maria my day bought his cows from had been breed what would be called Modern Day Angus for quite some time - My Dad bought his Big cows in the 50's

Dam - I can't recall his name!
He warned me - Breed what YOU like - what makes you Money - - Don't get caught-up in Fads. Was GOOD ADVISE!

 

[OldDog/NewTricks]

My Dad and I had a "Life Time Membership to the Angus Assoc."
I passed it on to V_Key when she was in 4H - FFA.

We sold the Ranch so at the same time I gave her everything - Saddles, Teco Squese, Power Rivers Pannels, Trailers, Equipment - Everything!

 

[Chuckie]

in order to qualify for the CAB program, the cattle need only to be >50% black-hided, grade in the upper 1/3 of the choice grade. i've seen holsteins qualify for the CAB program :shock: but there you have it :roll:

 

[Jason]

Holstiens don't qualify to be even considered for CAB.

 

[Mike]

Holstiens don't qualify to be even considered for CAB.

How about a 1/2 Brangus X 1/2 Char Jason?

Or a 1/4 Brangus X 1/4 Hereford X 1/2 Char?

Would they be considered if the Quality Grades were met?

Don't put your foot in your mouth now. :wink:

 

[alabama]

www.ams.usda.gov/lsg/certprog/beef/cab.htm
This will give you all the requirements.
I suggest that it will be hard to do without strong Angus influence any 51%black hided beef can try.

 

[OldDog/NewTricks]

There are currently 36 "Angus" branded beef programs monitored by the USDA, but the CAB brand is the only one endorsed by the American Angus Association.

This may be how Safeway gets a way with advertizing Certified Angus but they try to slip in the CAB term and Idea

 

[Anonymous]

I am one of the ones that is convinced that when you buy some of the "purebred angus" today you are already getting some Holstein genetics :wink:

 

[Jason]

I'm not saying there aren't some unscrouplous people out there, but to be eligible for CAB no hump is allowed and the animal has to appear to be a beef breed with the 51% black hide requirement.

Those "knowing" animals outside those parameters have been accepted are either lying or they purpetrated the fraud. Hearing a story from a friend of a guy that knew someone isn't proof.

A few years back a rabbid Murray Grey breeder with a chip on her shoulder said Outback was serving CAB and had it on their menu. She then started to attack the poor quality of the steaks there. I called the AAA and asked if Outback was licenced, (they were and are not), I asked if the particular Outback changed anything, suddenly the Murray Grey breeder didn't know what kind of steak Outback served.

Just because some Angus cattle are big doesn't mean they are Holstien. There were big Angus cows before there were todays big Holstiens. The diversity of the Angus breed is one of it's major assets, also a reason some who are jealous of the success attack it too.

 

[Anonymous]

"Some" angus now look more like Holsteins than Holsteins do!!!

 

[Mike]

Jason wrote:

I'm not saying there aren't some unscrouplous people out there, but to be eligible for CAB no hump is allowed and the animal has to appear to be a beef breed with the 51% black hide requirement.

Those "knowing" animals outside those parameters have been accepted are either lying or they purpetrated the fraud. Hearing a story from a friend of a guy that knew someone isn't proof.

Well Jason, I know damn well I'm not lying so I guess I'm guilty of perpetuating a fraud that I had no control over and was 1500 miles from. What makes me guilty I guess is the fact that I deposited my check........