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Rule2 one step closer.

Tam, "Would you two like to discuss this and get back to me. One says their rights are not limited and the other say Because it ALSO limits their liabilities. Which is it boys limited right and ALSO liabilities or No limits? "

Both, Tam.

Tam, "And Sandhusker if you incorporate your ranch and corporations are limited to what they can do, say own cattle, does that not limit your right to own cattle because you are the corporation?"

No, it does not. Corporations are seperate of individuals. It depends on the ownership of the cattle. Say there was a law that said corporations couldn't own cattle. Say I had a corportion called Tam's Bane, Inc. I could own cattle personally, but Tam's Bane, Inc. could not. If I wanted to buy cows, I'd have to use the right checkbook.
 
Tam said:
Since Rod did not qualify his statement to what kind of corporation he was speaking of, I asked Why would anyone incorporate if the laws that govern them will limit their individual rights and privileges??????? Which I would still like to know the answer as it doesn't seem to make much sence to me to incorporate a family farm or ranch if you are going to chance losing any of your individual rights and privieges. Namely the "right to own cattle" if you are a rancher, and someone decided to limit the ownership of certain things when it comes to CORPORATIONS.
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:roll: Lets do a quick lesson here. When a corporation is formed, it becomes its own individual entity under the eyes of the law. Almost a person. No-one owns it. It is itself. Whether its a huge multi-national corporation or a small ranch corporation, that underlying fact doesn't change. As a matter of fact, when you form the corporation, there is no "class" of corporation that differentiates between small and large.

Now, in this corporation, there must be shareholders and a board of directors. These guys (depending on the class of shareholder) will invest in the corporation and will determine the direction that the corporation takes. Being a shareholder, or on the board of directors of a corporation does not in ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM limit the personal rights and priveleges of that person. Case in point, my own farm corporation. I am the only voting shareholder, the chairman of the board, and I personally own livestock. The corporation does as well. My father sits on the board of directors and owns livestock. My sons own equal shares of non-voting shares, and since they are 2.5 yrs and 7 months old, own no livestock.

Now, should something happen and the corporation loses the right to do business in the livestock industry, say because of insolvency, the creditors can seize all the stock owned by the corporation and sell it off. The creditors cannot however seize my livestock, nor can they touch my fathers, unless one of the two of us has acted as guarantors of a corporate loan. This is how a shareholders liability is limited and why private companies incorporate.

Should the corporation hire someone to feed the livestock, and those animals do not get fed, the corporation could indeed lose the right to own those particular animals. Depending on the severity of the infraction, as a member of the board, either myself or my father could face charges. We would not, however, lose the privelege to personally own livestock.

Rod
 
DiamondSCattleCo said:
Big Muddy rancher said:
Poundmaker at Lanigan ships lots of cattle south.
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Your point, BMR?

And Jason, I've continued this discussion on the other thread.

Rod
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My point is that depending on the market alot of feedlots have the ability to send cattle south. Those cattle then are out of the Canadian supply . If those feedlots happen to be in a geographical location to beable to do that then that helps the market for those that depend on the canadian packers.
 
Big Muddy rancher said:
My point is that depending on the market alot of feedlots have the ability to send cattle south. Those cattle then are out of the Canadian supply . If those feedlots happen to be in a geographical location to beable to do that then that helps the market for those that depend on the canadian packers.
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I'm not denying that point, but I'm not sure how it affects the 10% maximum _increase_ in exports that Jason and I were discussing. Those feedlots that are on or near the border are likely shipping feds on a regular basis, and as such, are part of the 'existing exports' for which trucking and veterinary service exists. Now imagine a 10% overall increase on exports into the US, especially at Canada's current level of exports. Think of how many extra trucks you'd need, and how many more man-hours of labor needed to certify those animals and how we currently have a trucking AND manpower shortage. Imagine trying to increase exports during the first quarter of the year, while many large animal vets are busy with calving season. Feedlots, due to the amount of business they do with vets are likely able to pull in the extra manpower short term, but where does that leave the 500, 1000 and 2000 animal producer feedlots that are scattered across Saskatchewan?

Rod
 
DiamondSCattleCo said:
Big Muddy rancher said:
My point is that depending on the market alot of feedlots have the ability to send cattle south. Those cattle then are out of the Canadian supply . If those feedlots happen to be in a geographical location to beable to do that then that helps the market for those that depend on the canadian packers.
Click to expand...

I'm not denying that point, but I'm not sure how it affects the 10% maximum _increase_ in exports that Jason and I were discussing. Those feedlots that are on or near the border are likely shipping feds on a regular basis, and as such, are part of the 'existing exports' for which trucking and veterinary service exists. Now imagine a 10% overall increase on exports into the US, especially at Canada's current level of exports. Think of how many extra trucks you'd need, and how many more man-hours of labor needed to certify those animals and how we currently have a trucking AND manpower shortage. Imagine trying to increase exports during the first quarter of the year, while many large animal vets are busy with calving season. Feedlots, due to the amount of business they do with vets are likely able to pull in the extra manpower short term, but where does that leave the 500, 1000 and 2000 animal producer feedlots that are scattered across Saskatchewan?

Rod
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Rod we don't have to imagine a increase in supply. We witnessed it first hand when the border closed.
A 10% increase in supply happens seasonal in Canada and the US Just on placements and marketings alone. Cattle get picked up some sooner and some later. The market adjusts. You sound more in favor of marketing boards all the time. What's next Quota's on cattle?

Most feedlots of any size or that ship south have contracts with Vets for services. Who gets the vet is depending on your relationship with them.
 
Big Muddy rancher said:
Rod we don't have to imagine a increase in supply. We witnessed it first hand when the border closed.
A 10% increase in supply happens seasonal in Canada and the US Just on placements and marketings alone. Cattle get picked up some sooner and some later. The market adjusts. You sound more in favor of marketing boards all the time. What's next Quota's on cattle?
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I'm not talking about supply side. I'm talking about a 10% increase in exports and how it couldn't be handled short-term.

And this has nothing at all to do with quotas or marketing boards, but rather a discussion of what would happen on a given day if one of our two major bidders left the market for a day. Jason, SH and MRJ seem to feel that exports could suddenly triple or quadruple overnight (or even in a week) and easily pick up the slack. I disagree and feel the trucking/veterinary industry couldn't even handle a short term 10% increase in exports.

Hell look how long it took for the trucking industry to catch up after the border re-opened. We had lots of warning that the border was re-opening, and it still took 6 months to get wound back up to pre-BSE levels.

Rod
 

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