Rule2 one step closer.

[Ben Roberts]

How,can anyone know what the truth was about the Washington cow,when the reports were mostly lies.

 

[mwj]

How,can anyone know what the truth was about the Washington cow,when the reports were mostly lies.

If you are sure they were lies YOU have to have the truth. Please feel free to share the FACTS with us!!!!!!!! I am sure there are a lot of people on this board that would be glad to hear them.

 

[Ben Roberts]

I believe the first hint of a cover-up was when Ann Venerman past Secretary Of Agriculture stated that the cow was a downer cow and that the cow had been down for seven days. The cow walked off the trailer at the plant in Moses Lake, Washington the morning they slaughtered her, also the dairy that owned the cow,has milk records from the day before she was delivered to the plant.

 

[Manitoba_Rancher]

I read the part he wrote about the rest of the world doesn't care about our BSE. That made me believe he's smoking the same stuff Tam is.

Selective reading again :roll: Did you fail to see where I put it in context with our harmless form of BSE ? You sure complain when people take things from your postings out of context but feel free to do that very thing. Since I ''smoke'' does that mean the Washington cow DID NOT go into the food chain?

So we should stick a few hundred more in the food chain :???: If Canada has found 9 head in Canada- how many did they not find and went into the food chain :???: ... And since the USDA scientists now say Canada will probably be finding positive cattle for 20+ years-- how many of those positive cattle will now end up in the US food chain again if they let in Canadian cattle :???: ...How much will end up in pig or dog food that is then fed to cattle either thru accident or ignorance :???: ... When and where do we stop the cycle :???:

USDA has done nothing to answer any of the questions that were the reason the Senate voted against Rule 2 last time-- let alone answer the questions about the 4 post feedban cattle and the 4 year old one found lately....Completely a political snow job!!

The main question everyone needs to look at and answer is this:

Is the risk worth it? What is the gain to US cattlemen? Is it worth the added risk to the US/International consumer confidence, US consumer safety, the US cattle herd, and the long term viability of the US cattle industry?

OT- How do you actually know Canada has more BSE cases? What happens if they find 10 cases in the US in the next year? And you cant dally wag your R-calf tongue to say they come from oh say Canada?

 

[Tam]

Tam--With your thinking-- Since we have a few rattlesnakes living under our porch - we should just import 100's more, rather than trying to clean out the whole nest....... :roll:

From what R-CALF says we have been infested to epidemic proportion for a long time now Oldtimer. And since the US hasn't found any of the same strain as we have, can you tell us what protected the US Cattle herd from the Canadian cattle that have already been export to the US over the past say twenty years that were more likely to be infected with BSE as the ones that would be allowed in under the new rule? :?

 

[mwj]

Maybe you ought to read what mwj wrote Sandhusker.

Yes some of us do remember what actually happened.

I read the part he wrote about the rest of the world doesn't care about our BSE. That made me believe he's smoking the same stuff Tam is.

Selective reading again :roll: Did you fail to see where I put it in context with our harmless form of BSE ? You sure complain when people take things from your postings out of context but feel free to do that very thing. Since I ''smoke'' does that mean the Washington cow DID NOT go into the food chain?

Just a bump for Sandhusker

 

[Sandhusker]

Any animal that would be imported because of this rule would be ID'd to the max. SO Would any of you R-CALFers like to explain your leaders comment? Tell us how an imported animal that can be traced back to the exporting country by that country's NID tag and a Hot brand indicating the cows origin would be mistaken for a US native animal and have any effect on the US's BSE Status? And if the animal is ID'd as an imported animal how is that going to harm the US producers? Especially since they have these firewalls in place for so many years to protect and prevent the spread of BSE. :wink:

I guess you've forgotten that Washington cow.

You mean the one we put into the food chain. I would not bring that up to make our system look better than others. Besides they might find there post ban bse is like our bse that does not matter to the rest of the world :roll:

I brought up the Washington cow to illustrate how a foreign born cow that was even identified quickly as such cost us millions of dollars.

You pointing out the cow entering our food chain is yet another arguement against importing cattle from BSE positive countries.

 

[Anonymous]

Tam--With your thinking-- Since we have a few rattlesnakes living under our porch - we should just import 100's more, rather than trying to clean out the whole nest....... :roll:

From what R-CALF says we have been infested to epidemic proportion for a long time now Oldtimer. And since the US hasn't found any of the same strain as we have, can you tell us what protected the US Cattle herd from the Canadian cattle that have already been export to the US over the past say twenty years that were more likely to be infected with BSE as the ones that would be allowed in under the new rule? :?

Maybe the US call for an early volunteer feedban-- and the eventual mandatory ban has worked-- or the majority of cattle imported weren't from the cluster areas-- or just luck....Anyway we know for sure thru the presented facts that Canada has 5 times more the number of cases found in a herd 1/7th the size- and USDA now says that scientists predict will have more cases appearing for the next 20+ years....

What gain is there for US cattle raisers to import these cattle? Why should we not want to protect our herd like Canada has for the past 12+ years against the diseased US cattle (Anaplas and Bluetongue)?....

 

[Ben Roberts]

I believe the first hint of a cover-up was when Ann Venerman past Secretary Of Agriculture stated that the cow was a downer cow and that the cow had been down for seven days. The cow walked off the trailer at the plant in Moses Lake, Washington the morning they slaughtered her, also the dairy that owned the cow,has milk records from the day before she was delivered to the plant.

 

[Manitoba_Rancher]

I thought that fella from the plant there said he shot her in the trailer because she was wild.

 

[flounder]

I thought that fella from the plant there said he shot her in the trailer because she was wild.

Stanley Prusiner

''nobody has ever ask us to comment''

''they don't want us to comment''

''they never ask''

i tried to see Venemon, after Candian cow was discovered with BSE.
went to see lyle. after talking with him... absolute ignorance... then
thought i
should see Venemon... it was clear his entire policy was to get cattle
bonless beef prods
across the border... nothing else mattered...
his aids confirmed this... 5 times i tried to see Venemon, never worked...
eventually met with carl rove the political... he is the one that
arranged meeting
with Venemon... just trying to give you a sense of the distance... healh
public safety...
was never contacted...
yes i believe that prions are bad to eat and you can die from them...END

Dr. Stan bashing Ann Veneman - 3 minutes

http://maddeer.org/video/embedded/08snip.ram



Dave Louthan - Killed the Mad Cow


http://maddeer.org/video/embedded/louthan.html




tss

 

[Tam]

Tam--With your thinking-- Since we have a few rattlesnakes living under our porch - we should just import 100's more, rather than trying to clean out the whole nest....... :roll:

From what R-CALF says we have been infested to epidemic proportion for a long time now Oldtimer. And since the US hasn't found any of the same strain as we have, can you tell us what protected the US Cattle herd from the Canadian cattle that have already been export to the US over the past say twenty years that were more likely to be infected with BSE as the ones that would be allowed in under the new rule? :?

Maybe the US call for an early volunteer feedban-- and the eventual mandatory ban has worked-- or the majority of cattle imported weren't from the cluster areas-- or just luck....Anyway we know for sure thru the presented facts that Canada has 5 times more the number of cases found in a herd 1/7th the size- and USDA now says that scientists predict will have more cases appearing for the next 20+ years....

What gain is there for US cattle raisers to import these cattle? Why should we not want to protect our herd like Canada has for the past 12+ years against the diseased US cattle (Anaplas and Bluetongue)?....

Funny the first thing you posted was the feed ban. Now I ask you that if the US was protected from the "then unknown" why can't that same voluntary/manditory feed ban protect from the "now known"? Either your feed ban was/is effective in protecting you are it wasn't and the US testing should have been finding more than one imported case of our particular strain of BSE!!!!!!

Oldtimer since you consider the Western Prairies the cluster area since BSE was found in Alberta, and one of those Alberta cows originated in Sask, . And well over half the cattle in Canada originate in the Western Prairie Provinces what is the likelyhood that the cattle that have been imported over the past twenty years will have come from any place different than the ones that will be coming now.

And Oldtimer the only thing we know for sure through the presented facts is that Canada was/is testing to find BSE and the US was caught cheating on the testing as not find BSE. So who really can say what true testing would have found and now that the USDA has announced the cut back in testing we may NEVER KNOW!!!!!!

BTW Is "cattle raisers" the new term for cattle PRODUCERS. :wink:

And back to the same old dead horse of Anna and Blue. :lol: Something that our industry has been working on for over a decade to get dropped as we saw it as a trade irritation. Drop it Oldtimer you just look pathtic when you fall back to that to explain away your own actions now. :roll:

 

[Manitoba_Rancher]

[/quote] BTW Is "cattle raisers" the new term for cattle PRODUCERS[quote

Tam: That must be a R-calf terminology :roll: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[Tam]

BTW Is "cattle raisers" the new term for cattle PRODUCERS[quote

Tam: That must be a R-calf terminology :roll: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:[/quote]

Yea I guess you might be right as they don't "produce beef" they "raise cattle". :wink: :lol: :lol:

 

[Manitoba_Rancher]

BTW Is "cattle raisers" the new term for cattle PRODUCERS[quote

Tam: That must be a R-calf terminology :roll: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Yea I guess you might be right as they don't "produce beef" they "raise cattle". :wink: :lol: :lol:[/quote]

If they spent less time chirping about border issues and more time "raising" their cattle maybe they would have a supreme product that everyone wanted

 

[Tam]

I believe the first hint of a cover-up was when Ann Venerman past Secretary Of Agriculture stated that the cow was a downer cow and that the cow had been down for seven days. The cow walked off the trailer at the plant in Moses Lake, Washington the morning they slaughtered her, also the dairy that owned the cow,has milk records from the day before she was delivered to the plant.

Ben could you please provide more information on where Anne Veneman said the cow had been down for 7 days, as I don't ever remember hearing or reading anything about that.

I did find it funny however when Ron DeHaven said on Feb. 23

Well, we're basing our statement that the animal was a downer on the fact that there are records from the Food Safety Inspection Service veterinarian who examined this animal before slaughter. He examined her in a recumbent position on the trailer that brought her to the livestock market. Having said that, there is nothing saying that an animal that is down cannot get up. So in fact both accounts could potentially be true.

Aren't cattle that are sick but can still stand and walk considered Diseased not DOWNERS? :?

 

[Ben Roberts]

Tam, at the time the cow was slaughtered, the Government was paying $10.00 per stem that was sent in. The plant in Moses Lake,Washington is a very small plant that kills more custom work than anything else. They also kill some cull cows and bulls in the area and send the carcass' to Midway Meats,who grinds meat for the Portland and Seattle market in Chehalis,Washington,they ship carcass' once a week to Midway Meats. At the time the cow was slaughtered it took about two weeks to get the results back from the test,the carcass had already been shipped,ground,and sold before the test results were in. The USDA knew the cow tested postive before anyone else and at that time the USDA really did not know where the carcass was. The personal at the plant don't even remember the cow,they do remember though that they did not have any downers that week. Once the USDA traced the carcass to the Moses Lake plant and then to Midway Meats, Ann Veneman made a news release stating that the cow was a downer and that the meat had never made it into the food chain (soon after she made that release,she passed the law that you could not slaughter downer animals) To stop public reaction though The USDA made the plant in Moses Lake recall 68,000 lbs. of meat and shipped it to a land-fill to be buried,this was all after the fact

This is all a matter of public record, the owners of the Moses Lake plant and Midway Meats along with their workers have given sworn statements to the USDA in this matter.

 

[DiamondSCattleCo]

What gain is there for US cattle raisers to import these cattle? Why should we not want to protect our herd like Canada has for the past 12+ years against the diseased US cattle (Anaplas and Bluetongue)?....

You keep using Ana and Blue as examples, yet you don't ever mention that WITHIN Canada, we quarantined Ana and Blue hotspots, effectively isolating the spread of the disease. The US wasn't able/willing to do the same, so we shut the border down. In other words, we exercised the exact same policy on our own herd as we did yours, which is perfectly acceptable behaviour.

In the case of BSE, the US is NOT treating Canadian animals the same as they do your own herds. You're trying to export over 20 and over 30 animals, while not allowing imports from a country in the EXACT SAME RISK category. Your feed ban is less comprehensive than ours and your testing protocols are less comprehensive than ours. In other words, the US has no legal OR scientific leg to stand on to restrict our beef of any age from entering your country.

So its apples and oranges, OT, no matter how many times you try to say it isn't. When the US's feedban matches ours, AND your testing protocols match ours, then the scientific community can decide if the US is lower risk than Canada. If it is, shut down the border. You won't hear a peep from me. Until then, all countries will recognize that R-Calf is only attempting to promote a protectionist policy with no regard for fact.

Rod

 

[Anonymous]

So its apples and oranges, OT, no matter how many times you try to say it isn't. When the US's feedban matches ours, AND your testing protocols match ours, then the scientific community can decide if the US is lower risk than Canada. If it is, shut down the border. You won't hear a peep from me. Until then, all countries will recognize that R-Calf is only attempting to promote a protectionist policy with no regard for fact.

Rod- right there lies some of the problem...These questions should be answered and the loopholes closed before making any moves in the changing of rules....Just because we have a politically/corporate lobbyist driven USDA these questions are not being addressed and the US cattleman/consumer is bearing the brunt of the risk....

You are saying about what R-CALF is- and one of the reasons the court case was filed so that an independent entity could look at the evidence and determine what the risk really is and whether its worth the hazard it presents to US consumers and the US cattle herd...Apparently previously the US Senate agreed when they moved to block the USDA's rule...

What gain is there for US cattle raisers to import these cattle? Is it worth the risk?

 

[Tam]

So its apples and oranges, OT, no matter how many times you try to say it isn't. When the US's feedban matches ours, AND your testing protocols match ours, then the scientific community can decide if the US is lower risk than Canada. If it is, shut down the border. You won't hear a peep from me. Until then, all countries will recognize that R-Calf is only attempting to promote a protectionist policy with no regard for fact.

Rod- right there lies some of the problem...These questions should be answered and the loopholes closed before making any moves in the changing of rules....Just because we have a politically/corporate lobbyist driven USDA these questions are not being addressed and the US cattleman/consumer is bearing the brunt of the risk....

You are saying about what R-CALF is- and one of the reasons the court case was filed so that an independent entity could look at the evidence and determine what the risk really is and whether its worth the hazard it presents to US consumers and the US cattle herd...Apparently previously the US Senate agreed when they moved to block the USDA's rule...

What gain is there for US cattle raisers to import these cattle? Is it worth the risk?

Look at the What evidence Oldtimer? The "cherry picked" evidence that R-CALF will allow their experts to testify to. :wink: As a retired lawman turn substitute judge you should want all the evidence to be presented not just the side that proves how Canada is a bigger risk when the true evidence proves OTHERWISE. Is that Justice Glasgow style Oldtimer? :wink:

BTW Funny you should ask if it is worth the risk when your organization is not willing to testify to the WHOLE TRUTH!!!! Wouldn't want to RISK that would you OLDTIMER???? :wink: