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Rule2 one step closer.

Ben Roberts said:
IBP, owned the plant at Dakota City, Nebraska in 1999

IBP = Iowa Beef Producers...that the kind of organizing you talking about?
Re-establishing independent processing is going to be a tough road.

New book, Ben? Tell us about it.
Doesn't seem like enough here have read your first.

Robert McCaskill
Hickory, MS
 
Ben, "I advocate taking back control of our cattle industry. "

Then why do you attempt to discredit the only National Cattleman's org. in this country that is saying the same thing?
 
RobertMac said:
Ben Roberts said:
IBP, owned the plant at Dakota City, Nebraska in 1999

IBP = Iowa Beef Producers...that the kind of organizing you talking about?
Re-establishing independent processing is going to be a tough road.

New book, Ben? Tell us about it.
Doesn't seem like enough here have read your first.

Robert McCaskill
Hickory, MS


Hello Robert,good to hear from you again, I hope you have a prosperous 2007.

No Robert, I don't want to own another packing plant,I just want to control the ones we have. It would be simple to do(not easy) simple.

First thing the cattlemen and cattlewomen need to do, is start thinking like a corporation, instead of with their emotions. Cattle producers today still believe they are individualist. Well, we lost our individuallty in 1994 with NAFTA.

Best Regards
Ben Roberts
 
Sandhusker said:
Ben, "I advocate taking back control of our cattle industry. "

Then why do you attempt to discredit the only National Cattleman's org. in this country that is saying the same thing?

Sandhusker, What National Cattlemens Organization are you referring to.

Best Regards
Ben Roberts
 
Ben Roberts said:
Sandhusker said:
Ben, "I advocate taking back control of our cattle industry. "

Then why do you attempt to discredit the only National Cattleman's org. in this country that is saying the same thing?

Sandhusker, What National Cattlemens Organization are you referring to.

Best Regards
Ben Roberts

R-CALF, my good man. We are fully aware of the packer's power being used against producers. The other guys aren't bothered by it all.
 
Ben Roberts: "Yes, I recognize the power of the multi-national packers and that power is devastating, farmers and ranchers world-wide."

How do you explain this "devastating power" in light of the fact that 2005 showed us the highest feeder cattle prices ever recorded?

Did Tyson, Swift, Excel, and USPB reduce their market shares in 2005 for these high feeder cattle prices to occur?

Do you prefer we go back to inefficient mom and pop packing plants that require $40 per head net profit margins and have to pay someone to haul their ofal off as opposed to Tyson slaughtering cattle for $26 per head net profit margins (Tyson vs ibp tesimony) in their most profitable years and selling everything from tongue to the rectum? A 10 year average per head net profit margin for the 5 major packers would be far less than $26 per head.

If you want to make a case for large packers not being as innovate in selling beef and beef by products as some small packers, I think you can make that argument successfully Ben. Big ships are hard to turn. If you want to make the argument that we would be paid better by smaller less efficient packing plants, you're going to have a hard time selling that argument considering the fact that efficiency leads to consolidation. Hell Ben, look around you. What industry isn't dominated by 3 - 5 major companies. Is concentration some new concept specific to the packing industry? Tell that to the beverage industry, the cell phone industry, the fast food industry, the automobile industry, and just about every other major industry.

I have read your book. I read the facts with interest and question your conclusions as I did when we visited in Kadoka.

Ranchers taking back control of our industry? Where have we lost control of our industry Ben? I see ranchers reaping the benefits of their investments in USPB. Where is this loss of control occuring?

I think the biggest challenge facing this industry is for producers to get the facts on many of the issues we face so they can see how R-CULT is leading them down the primrose path with their lies regarding how certain factors affect cattle prices. I can't think of anything that has been more destructive to our industry than the R-CULT "blame everything and everyone" agenda.

R-CULT is being led by certain LMA reps who are trying to save their own collective butts from an industry headed towards owning and controlling their financial destiny which is contrary to the LMA's goals of socialized cattle marketing and keeping those commission dollars rolling in.

You are right, R-CULT does talk out of both sides of their mouth. ("Don't consumers have a right to know where their beef comes from"...."Don't burden me with traceback" ......."USDA doesn't care about food safety" ......"we have the safest beef in the world due to our bse precautionary measures").

Unless you can explain how we are losing control of our industry with specific examples, you're opinions are subject to the same criticism.

BTW Ben, in regards to concentration in the packing industry, tell us what market share Swift, Wilson, Cudahey, Morris and Armour had when they were the "BIG FIVE". You've done that research haven't you?


Rod,

Excellent post!



~SH~

Scott Huber
Kadoka, SD
 
Sandcheska: "We are fully aware of the packer's power being used against producers."


Can you give a specific example of how this power is being used against producers?

Watch the diversion Ben...........

The packer blamers put their cards on the table in Pickett vs IBP. They lost big time.

Tyson dropping their price in the cash market to reflect their purchases in the futures market is not market manipulation any more than a cattle buyer dropping his price at the auction market to reflect their purchases on the video. Tyson is not "THE MARKET", Tyson is "A MARKET WITHIN THE MARKET". If Tyson has their needs filled, it's a good bet that Excel and Swift don't. Packer blaming with nothing to support your beliefs is such a cancer on this industry.


~SH~
 
~SH~ said:
Sandcheska: "We are fully aware of the packer's power being used against producers."


Can you give a specific example of how this power is being used against producers?

Watch the diversion Ben...........

The packer blamers put their cards on the table in Pickett vs IBP. They lost big time.

Tyson dropping their price in the cash market to reflect their purchases in the futures market is not market manipulation any more than a cattle buyer dropping his price at the auction market to reflect their purchases on the video. Tyson is not "THE MARKET", Tyson is "A MARKET WITHIN THE MARKET". If Tyson has their needs filled, it's a good bet that Excel and Swift don't. Packer blaming with nothing to support your beliefs is such a cancer on this industry.


~SH~

Go away, Junior. This is a forum for adults.
 
Sandcheska: "Go away, Junior. This is a forum for adults."


What did I tell you Ben?

This clown doesn't answer questions to defend his views, he makes statements and diverts questions. Backing his views with supporting facts is a concept most blamers can't grasp.


Robert Mac: "Interesting how market share lose has paralleled processing concentration????"

Of course as processing becomes concentrated into fewer packers it would mean loss of market share for other packers.

IS THAT SOME KIND OF NOVEL CONCEPT?

Why is it that nobody can explain in detail how this concentration has been detrimental to producer interests?

How did we have the highest feeder calf prices ever recorded in 2005 with such a concentrated packing industry? Where's the packer blaming logic with that fact Robert Mac?



~SH~
 
Sandcheska: "SH, I've got absolutely no use for you."

Understandably! Considering how many times you have been handed your head in debates on the facts and exposed for your lies, I understand why you don't have any time for me. Most R-CULT clones don't!

Anything to avoid the debate when you can't back your positions with factual information as you just proved again.

Ben will figure you out just like so many others have and it won't take him long to do it.


~SH~
 
Hi Scott, great to hear from you,i've always enjoyed our visits and friendship. I don't have a great deal of time tonight, I have a board meeting, in Spokane early tomorrow morning. I will answer one question though and the rest will be later.

Extent of "Big Five" Ownership and Control. The most satisfactory single index of the proportion of the meat industry controlled by the Big Five that I have researched,is the fact that they killed, 70% of the livestock slaughtered by all packers and butchers engaged in interstate commerce. In 1916, the Big Five's percentage of slaughter,was as follows:

Cattle-----------------------82.2%
Calves----------------------76.6%
Hogs------------------------61.2%
Sheep&Lambs--------------86.4%


Until Later
Best Regards
Ben Roberts
 
SH said:
How did we have the highest feeder calf prices ever recorded in 2005 with such a concentrated packing industry?

Could it be the lack of supply of feeder calves???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

"Interesting how [beef's] market share lose [in the protein market] has paralleled processing concentration????"
 
Another reason why "Little Sandcheska" has no use for me is because he suggested that packer concentration has increased in the last 20, 30, and 40 years.

Ben Roberts shows that the "BIG FIVE" in 1916 controlled 82.2% of the cattle slaughtering capacity.

What does the "BIG FIVE" control in 2007? About the same level!

Another Sandhusker missle is lobbed into a medical facility.

Does anyone still wonder why Little Sandcheska, the R-CULT cheerleader, has no time for me? It can't be easy to watch conspiracy after conspiracy get shot down in flames by the facts.

Will Little Sandcheska admit that packer concentration has not increased? Will he admit that his "so called common knowledge" was only common to packer blamers? Of course not! He diverts and makes more meaningless little statements.

NEXT!


RM: "Could it be the lack of supply of feeder calves?"

Lack of supply of feeder calves? Tell me Robert Mac, what was the difference between the supply of feeder calves in 2004 and the supply of feeder calves in 2005? Hmmmm???

Do you want to make the argument that packer concentration is only a factor when we have excessive supplies of feeder cattle? Interesting!

The fact is, 2005 feeder calf prices were driven by beef demand which doesn't have a damn thing to do with packer concentration.

Another packer blamer conspiracy shot down in flames.


~SH~
 
Packer History
Concentration in the U.S. packing industry has deep historical roots. In the early 1900s, a group of companies called the "Big Five" dominated the meat packing industry. Holding an estimated 50 to 75 percent of the market, these companies operated large, multispecies slaughter facilities near terminal markets. In 1920, following an investigation by the Federal Trade Commission, the Big Five packing companies agreed, among other things, to divest themselves of certain assets such as public stockyards and to cease retail sales. Over the following 40 years, single-species slaughter plants gradually were located in livestock production areas and the proportion of cattle slaughter by the four largest packing firms fell to about 30 percent by 1956.

The transition from carcasses to boxed beef took place in the 1960s, and high slaughter levels kept plenty of independents in business until the late 1970s, when slaughter numbers dropped. Since then, the pendulum has swung back toward consolidation, with a few companies operating very large plants. In 1996, 28.6 million steers and heifers were slaughtered, with 22 plants slaughtering 79 percent of this total. By 2003, the top four companies accounted for about 80 percent of steer and heifer slaughter.


Currently the beef packing industry fits the Federal Trade Commission's definition of a highly concentrated industry (see the four-firm concentration ratios in the table). Research on the effects of this concentration has focused on whether packers have used market power to lower the prices they pay for slaughter-ready cattle or whether packers have used captive supplies to manipulate market prices. Little attention has been paid to the effect of this concentration on producer groups or small companies that need to segregate cattle in a fully traceable system.

Scott, The concentration in 1916 resulted in "breaking up" the system as it was. Is it time for it again?
 
I wonder if those "figures" include all their foreign holdings also-- Canada, Australia, Mexico, South America, etc which they utilize in their entire marketing scheme...
 
SH, "How did we have the highest feeder calf prices ever recorded in 2005 with such a concentrated packing industry?"

Followed by more SH, "The fact is, 2005 feeder calf prices were driven by beef demand which doesn't have a damn thing to do with packer concentration."

Ummmm, so why did you bring up packer concentration?
 
SH, "Another reason why "Little Sandcheska" has no use for me is because he suggested that packer concentration has increased in the last 20, 30, and 40 years"

If Mike's information is accurate, it appears I'm correct; "Over the following 40 years, single-species slaughter plants gradually were located in livestock production areas and the proportion of cattle slaughter by the four largest packing firms fell to about 30 percent by 1956."

30% in 1956 to 80% today. Nope, no increase... SH has proven me a liar once again! :roll: :lol: :lol:
 
coon.jpg
 

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