sale results SAV

[Angus 62]

43 mcals seems reasonable. I know of some pushing 50. How cold the winter gets also makes a difference. Everything burns extra energy when it gets consistently below zero.

 

[BRG]

Thanks for your input BRG. I started mine on a 44 mCal for the first two months and then switched them to my heifer ration, a 37 mCal in January. I think they look just right. Of course they won't be needed till August 1st.

I haven't heard how your sale went, give us a report.

Sale went great. Click on the link for the sale report.

http://www.billpelton.com/salereport.php?saleid=470

 

[WVGenetics]

I think there is a fine line between underfeeding bulls, to developing bulls to see their potential, all the way to over feeding them. We have a nutritionist on hand that helps us develop the bulls properly. There are several different ways to do it. At our ranch, we develop them without adding any corn to their diet, except for whats in the silage. If you have the right genetics you can do it properly at a lower mCal. We fed ours all winter at a .43 mCal ration, consisting of corn silage, oatlage, 50/50 ration of ground corn stalks and oat hay, modified distillers, and a liquid mineral pack. I thought our 2 year old's were developed nearly perfect, but I also thought the yearlings were a little green. But we had our sale this week, and we had several compliments on them and they sold better than ever before. When we feed them up, we make sure there is cleavage in their testicles, and not just a round full sack. If they get to round, or have a pile of bulls that are all around 40 centimeters, then you most likely have a sack full of fat. If this happens, you will most likely have fertility issues and bulls that fall apart on grass. Plus you will have testicles that will get smaller as they get thinner.

BRG...is that 0.43 MCal NEg? If so, what was the average ADG? We are feeding a similar ration with corn silage as the base that is running 0.45 MCal NEg for our state bull evaluation program. Angus bulls averaged 3.80 per day for 85 days, which was 0.4 lbs/day over the diet projection. Intakes exceeded the projection as well. Personally, I feel they have exceeded the point of development/evaluation of genetic merit and would like to have gains closer to 3.25 lbs/day on average. We just collected scan data so not sure on back fat yet, but averaged 0.25 in last year with a similar ration but significantly easier winter. I think they will average .3 in this year. It certainly is a balancing act as many have mentioned. We used to feed bulls harder but people get along a lot better with them now.

 

[seth]

Like most of you I admire the SAV cattle and the market that they have developed. I have used some SAV genetics and they have worked well for me and I might add that my management is nothing like SAV management.

Heard a story the other day that may provide some insight into the high SAV sale average every year. As most of you know the bulls are not fertility tested before the sale and are delivered as soon as possible after the sale. If a bull doesn't pass a fertility test after he is delivered or has some other problem, I understand that the buyer is given a credit at next years sale, a practise that I believe is quite common. However I was told that the credit is for only one bull up to the original price paid, regardless of what the replacement bull sells for. This is unique in my experience. Apparently if you pay $20,000 for a bull and he turns out to be a dud you can bid up to $20,000 on any one bull to replace him. If you ony bid $10,000 on the replacement bull you are done, the credit is gone. If that is the case there is no point in stopping before $20k is there. Should be good for the sale average. Anybody have first hand experience of this?

 

[gcreekrch]

I am not opposed to anything that will help the profit margin. My opinion is based off of experience in my part of the world. I have watched neighbors have wrecks chasing only carcass data. And i am sure some "finished fat" bulls may work well. I do my homework on genetics and then buy bulls that are raised the way i like them raised. But that pattern has only worked for 125 years on our place so we may not know what we are doing. :lol: :wink: You asked lots of questions mwj, so here's one back to ya. How many awesome calves will a broken down bull with too much fat in his equipment and bad feet and legs from being pushed too hard give ya come fall?

It's a balancing act for sure. To get the data on genetic potential you gotta have calves in a yard being fed. Which requires a bull to breed cows. Which my experience says he cant do if he has melted like an ice cube in july. Again, if it works for you, buy em' that way. We all do the same things different but that is just ranching.

That is the reason I specifically asked if it would help if part of there bulls were NOT hard fed. I see your point about the bulls being over conditioned for your area. Would people be willing to try the genetics if the bulls were not over fat. I would be the last person in the world to tell you what kind of bulls to use. Other than the purebred Jersey I offered to help with.

If you can find me a FAT jersey that would be the first one in history. :shock: :lol:

Denny and others who sell bulls know what sells. I happened to try and choose genetics from pedigrees and bulls which are not over fed. A lot of other folks must think otherwise. It's all good. :wink:

I see Yardley's bought a bull. You'll be able to get a calf from them the next time you'll need a herdsire.

 

[leanin' H]

Yardleys can afford a bull there but I couldn't. And I am partial to Yardley genetics but prefer buying bulls from their own genetics. They raise some good bulls and I have had success with them. None have come from SAV.

 

[BlackCattleRancher]

Like most of you I admire the SAV cattle and the market that they have developed. I have used some SAV genetics and they have worked well for me and I might add that my management is nothing like SAV management.

Heard a story the other day that may provide some insight into the high SAV sale average every year. As most of you know the bulls are not fertility tested before the sale and are delivered as soon as possible after the sale. If a bull doesn't pass a fertility test after he is delivered or has some other problem, I understand that the buyer is given a credit at next years sale, a practise that I believe is quite common. However I was told that the credit is for only one bull up to the original price paid, regardless of what the replacement bull sells for. This is unique in my experience. Apparently if you pay $20,000 for a bull and he turns out to be a dud you can bid up to $20,000 on any one bull to replace him. If you ony bid $10,000 on the replacement bull you are done, the credit is gone. If that is the case there is no point in stopping before $20k is there. Should be good for the sale average. Anybody have first hand experience of this?

That all sounds great, but the only reason I can reason someone would buy a bull would be to breed cows the year they are buying it. If they get a dud and a credit to next years sale, it sure doesn't help get the original job done which was to get bulls bred this year.

 

[Howdy1]

I bought some bulls a few years back from SAV. Yes they were fat but they were not a lot fatter than most bull sales I go to. I can say for a fact from experience that I had no problems with the bulls. They made it to 6 years of age with not feet or leg problems. I don't run any bulls past six as they all are a pain in the butt to keep around. I ran them like every other bull I buy and they didn't implode but didn't keep all the fat during the winter time.

All the SAV bashing is unwarranted in my opinion based on my own personal experience. I couldn't see any difference in their bulls I owned versus those lines that came from pretty much any other angus breeder out there that I have owned. I dare most people to find a better phenotypically cow herd that the Schaffs have put together.

The reason I quit buying bulls from them was purely a price decision and Kelly gives no warranty. You have the option to buy insurance but that isn't worth the paper it is printed on, IMHO. If a seedstock producer won't give me a 1st season breeding guarantee then I won't buy from them. Not that I have many problems but **** does happen especially when you have several bulls all sharing a breeding pasture.

I applaud Kelly and his success even though I don't personally buy his bulls. When everyone on here can sell 8 or 9 million dolllars worth of bulls every year then you can run their operation in the ground.[/b]

 

[Hay Feeder]

The only SAV bull I had made me personally more money than he cost
I sold semen on my own cause the AI company's would have nothing to do with him
The bull cost 5,000 and Kelly picked him out sent him down here
I his semen generated for me 8,000 not counting certificates
Sold him for $20,000 to another breeder out of state when he was five years old His females were super and a conorstone of my herd
Later in life his semen was selling to 50.00 per straw
He lasted 10 years
The Ai reps have no idea his breeding

Those unknown Schaff bulls make a lot of money much better than the bull of the week ones you read and hear all the bs all the time

 

[Faster horses]

The only SAV bull I had made me personally more money than he cost
I sold semen on my own cause the AI company's would have nothing to do with him
The bull cost 5,000 and Kelly picked him out sent him down here
I his semen generated for me 8,000 not counting certificates
Sold him for $20,000 to another breeder out of state when he was five years old His females were super and a conorstone of my herd
Later in life his semen was selling to 50.00 per straw
He lasted 10 years
The Ai reps have no idea his breeding

Those unknown Schaff bulls make a lot of money much better than the bull of the week ones you read and hear all the bs all the time

Larry Leonhardt had a bill for advertising a bull he was part owner of when we were there. He tossed the bill on the table and said he could have 8 of his own bulls die and make him more money than the bull the bill was for... :wink: