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Sanctions against Japan?

The Japanese ambassador could not tell us when the border will reopen – and that's not acceptable," Thune said. "Those of us representing cattle country have lost patience with Japan." DID THUNE ask the MINSTERS IF they WOULD accept BSE tested BEEF?????? I Didn't SEE a WRITTEN peice on THIS question!!!!!!
The "blanket BSE testing" policy must be modified. Currently, Japanese law requires that 100% of cattle (regardless of age) must be tested at harvest for BSE. This law must be modified to eliminate the domestic policy testing requirement for cattle under 20 months of age. **** JUST WHO IN THE HELL wants this Modified LAW,OIE, NCBA ,PACKERS,________WHY does ANYONE WANT TO Eliminate ANOTHER countries LAWS if NOT for PERSONAL GAIN,IT"S their domestic POLICY.
 
Jason said:
How many of you guys are considering the culture of Japan? I have never been there personally but have talked with those that have conducted extensive business there.

Descisions are made in a much different way in cultures where the most important thing is saving face. Many Japanese leaders no doubt recognize their border will open to western grain fed beef. However just because they do, they can't immediately open it. First they have to allow each group involved to change their views without seeming to change their original descision, or at least with out saying they were wrong.

The ball is rolling now patience will be necessary. If R-calf keeps doing stupid things like pushing court action that causes one party to lose face, the Japanese will back off.

This isn't a matter that can be forced. To force the Japanese into anything is a humiliation. Thay have used that humiliation before to become a world economic power and the second largest consuming nation in the world, next to the USA.

The Japanese are smart and know they need to feed their consumption, both in dollars and in products. Trying to out push them in a trade war might be harder than you could imagine. Look at the level of investment they have accomplished in North America with no free trade deal!
Click to expand...


Jason, you hit the nail on the head with this post. I will long remember a high school play that I watched years ago, that reflected on Japanese culture during WW11. In one scene, there was a wrestling match between a huge giant of a man and a little scrawny runt that probably didn't weigh 100 lbs. (or 46kg for us Canucks!) The runt won quite easily, but the big guy was loudly celebrated as victor. When the American sargeant who watched the match saw the outcome, he couldn't figure out why the Japs called it the way they did.

"Easy," said a Japanese watcher, "We all know who won, and if we say the big guy one, then nobody loses face, you see?"

It might not make sense to us, but if that is what their culture calls for, we will only antagonize them if we force our Western ways on them.

Incidentally, the Japanese have far more arbitrators than lawyers in their system (according to what I've read on conflict resolution). What does that tell us about their perception of a litigious group like r-calf? How do you think they will respond to economic force? With that knowledge, how should we be approaching the re-opening of their import market?

The American approach has a very thin velvet glove over the iron fist, if any glove at all, as far as the Japanese culture is concerned. Damned arrogance might be more appropriate.
 
Jason said:
How many of you guys are considering the culture of Japan? I have never been there personally but have talked with those that have conducted extensive business there.

Descisions are made in a much different way in cultures where the most important thing is saving face. Many Japanese leaders no doubt recognize their border will open to western grain fed beef. However just because they do, they can't immediately open it. First they have to allow each group involved to change their views without seeming to change their original descision, or at least with out saying they were wrong.

The ball is rolling now patience will be necessary. If R-calf keeps doing stupid things like pushing court action that causes one party to lose face, the Japanese will back off.

This isn't a matter that can be forced. To force the Japanese into anything is a humiliation. Thay have used that humiliation before to become a world economic power and the second largest consuming nation in the world, next to the USA.

The Japanese are smart and know they need to feed their consumption, both in dollars and in products. Trying to out push them in a trade war might be harder than you could imagine. Look at the level of investment they have accomplished in North America with no free trade deal!
Click to expand...

So we're supposed to be eternally patient with Japan at all cost because they are "saving face", along with the continuation of taking huge amounts of exports from them without complaint, but everyone else must play under a different set of rules? Thune was wrong to support keeping the Canadian border closed, but is dead on right to put pressure on Japan to make a commitment to us, when we have done so repeatedly for them.
 
R-CALF hasn't filed suit against the Japanese. In fact, they are on the record supporting Creekstone, which is definitely the more Japanese-friendly approach. R-CALF is also not the outfit threatening sanctions - that is the US Government.
 
CAL, "So we're supposed to be eternally patient with Japan at all cost because they are "saving face", along with the continuation of taking huge amounts of exports from them without complaint, but everyone else must play under a different set of rules? Thune was wrong to support keeping the Canadian border closed, but is dead on right to put pressure on Japan to make a commitment to us, when we have done so repeatedly for them."

We're getting from the Japanese exactly what we should expect. They didn't want this and we're being heavy-handed and unreasonable with our demands. How would we react if they ridiculed one of our food safety laws and demanded we change it just for them? I'm sure we would suggest they do deep knee bends in the asparagus patch. I'm totally dismayed at the way the USDA has handled this. Instead of asking "What will it take?", they waded in and said "This is what you will do". How many businesses can operate like that?

How bout this moisture! Just what the Dr. ordered. We've got 3" of mush on the ground and it's still coming down pretty good.
 
Sen. Tom Harkin, D-Iowa, and Richard Durbin, D-Ill., this week released a General Accounting Office report critical of the U.S. Food and Drug Administration's enforcement of the 1997 ban on ruminant-derived protein in ruminant feed stuffs.

The GAO updated a 2002 audit of the FDA enforcement.

"The FDA ruminant-to-ruminant feed ban is the linchpin of the U.S. strategy for preventing the spread of BSE to U.S. cattle herds," Harkin said in a news release. "Yet the GAO found substantial shortcomings in enforcing the ban, including failure to monitor feed plants adequately and to test animal feed for prohibited ruminant byproducts. Common sense tells us the best way to measure compliance is to sample feed to make sure it does not contain ruminant byproducts."

The GAO said that while 14,800 feed mills have been inspected, the government knows others might handle rendered ruminant products. "Because these firms have never been inspected, FDA has no assurance that they are in compliance."

The audit also found the FDA hasn't reinspected procedures at 2,800 cattle operations that mix feed and feed mills since 1999.

The GAO accused the FDA of not playing with a full deck of cards in its public report. For example, in January 2004 when it said inspectors found a 99 percent compliance rate, "it did not note that the rate was based on inspections of only 570 firms."
*********** DID THUNE ask the MINSTERS IF they WOULD accept BSE tested BEEF?????? I Didn't SEE a WRITTEN peice on THIS question!!!!!!
The "blanket BSE testing" policy must be modified. Currently, Japanese law requires that 100% of cattle (regardless of age) must be tested at harvest for BSE. This law must be modified to eliminate the domestic policy testing requirement for cattle under 20 months of age. **** JUST WHO IN THE HELL wants this Modified LAW,OIE, NCBA ,PACKERS,________WHY does ANYONE WANT TO Eliminate ANOTHER countries LAWS if NOT for PERSONAL GAIN,IT"S their domestic POLICY.
SO another QUESTION,IS THE FDA ,USDA being undermined by NCBA and the PACKERS as they need to sell RENDERED PRODUCTS from their PLANTS?
 
Cal said:
So we're supposed to be eternally patient with Japan at all cost because they are "saving face", along with the continuation of taking huge amounts of exports from them without complaint, but everyone else must play under a different set of rules? Thune was wrong to support keeping the Canadian border closed, but is dead on right to put pressure on Japan to make a commitment to us, when we have done so repeatedly for them.
Click to expand...

Cal, one of the most difficult lessons that life is teaching me is knowing what it means to apply appropriate pressure. And also when to back off. I think that this is probably the same lesson that we need to learn in most of, if not all of life's situations.

When I reflect on a lot of the relationships that I have damaged in the past, it makes me kinda sick to realize that we could have had a much more positive outcome had I only paid attention to what the other party was really saying.

Would this not also apply to politics and trade? What do you think?
 
When I reflect on a lot of the relationships that I have damaged in the past, it makes me kinda sick to realize that we could have had a much more positive outcome had I only paid attention to what the other party was really saying.
QUOTED By MLA
THE OTHER PARTY WANTS BSE TESTED BEEF ,give it to them.They will by MORE
 
Sandblaster: "You just choose to ignore what I "bring"."

You bring nothing but conjecture, theory, and questions. That's your M.O.!


Sandblaster: "You just hate it when somebody calls your cards."

Not at all! When someone can back their position with opposing facts, I welcome the challenge. It's more important for me to know the truth than to be right. Unfortunately for you, the truth is seldom found on your side of the issues.


Sandblaster: "I'm not real impressed with you demanding others to back their statements and you will not."

I back my statements continually but I'm done doing the research with someone like you who continually offers the challenge but backs nothing himself. You won't listen to the truth anyway. You don't deserve the same respect that other's will get due to your deceptive tactics.

Your debate technique is question everything that doesn't support your blaming bias, discredit whatever doesn't support your blaming bias, and bring nothing to the table to support your position. That's you!


Sandblaster: "I'm not real impressed with you calling others blamers and then being the biggest blamer on the board."

A blamer is someone who is continually making and supporting baseless allegations.

In contrast, what I say about R-CULT is the truth and I will continue to correct their lies. BANK ON IT!


Sandblaster: "I'm not real impressed with you calling others biased when you hold the biggest bias here."

That's a true statement. I am very biased towards the truth and I loathe lies and deception. That's why you and I don't get along very well.


Sandblaster: "SH, you are the only one who lives in the world of NCBA fairies, USDA pixies, and R-CALF trolls."

There it is again. True to form! That's all you ever have is "cheap talk" supported by nothing.

DISCREDIT, DIVERT, DENY, DECEIVE!!!

You R-CULTers find the concept of independent thinking so foreign don't you? Unlike you, I don't need a support group as long as I have the truth to support my position. The most deceptive of R-CULTers cannot touch me in debate for that very reason. They come and they go!


Sandblaster: "You bring out "facts" to "support" your positions, and they are generally not supportive of them at all!"

Hahaha! That's so much easier to say than prove. Talk is so cheap with you R-CULTers.


Sandblaster: "The statement above is not because "Japan has realized the errors", it is because the US is forcing this upon them!"

FORCING THIS UPON THEM???

Give me a break!

Japan's trade negotiators have acknowledged that 100% testing is not backed by science and you can't handle it because you beat the Creekstone drum for too long.

Even Creekstone's Fielding admitted that 100% testing had nothing to do with food safety and you acknowledged that. You think Japan's trade negotiators are too stupid to understand that???

You accuse me of living in a fantasy world and you throw out sh*t like that.


Sanblaster: "Do you honestly think intelligent people who have been following this actually believe you? Just because you want something to be and say it to be doesn't make it so."

There it is again. True to form. You make your "steers attempt" to discredit me but you, ONCE AGAIN, bring absolutely nothing to support your position. You are such a phony.

Nobody with any degree of intelligence could reach any other conclusion than to realize that the Japanese beef trade negotiators know the facts behind these issues. Japan knows that 100% BSE testing does not guarantee safety. They know about SRM removal. They know about the feed ban. They know about increased surveilance. They know that we are currently importing boxed beef from Canada from UTM cattle. They know about removing BSE positive animals from the food chain. They know that we have traded cattle and feed with Canada. They know we have OTM Canadian cattle in our system and they know we had a BSE positive in the U.S. R-CULT will never fool Japan with their bullsh*t to divert from these facts.

If Japan is balking on trading with the U.S. it will not be because they bought into R-CULT's lies. Bank on that!

The Japanese consumers may believe that 100% BSE testing provides safety assurances but their trade negotiators are going to be smarter than that. Unfortunately, it takes time to get these same facts to the Japanese consumer.

The Japanese government may have their own political reasons for balking on opening the border which may not have anything to do with their understanding of the facts of these issues.

I agree totally that trying to strong hand Japan by threatening sanctions is a stupid move. On the other hand, trade negotiations presenting the facts of BSE testing is the right thing to do.

Now we have two things tainting the process of opening the Japanese export market. Strong hand threats of sanctions and R-CULT's inconsistant lies. Both are self defeating.

Truth and science is the only correct approach to opening our borders with Japan.


A perfect example of your "factually defenseless" positions is your inability to provide proof that the Japenese parliament would even allow BSE tested beef.


~SH~
 
We obviously have a number of Senators and Representatives that see potentially no progress in the work and are willing to turn up the heat a bit rather than just accepting indefinite stall tactics. Is there the possibility that those involved in the negotiations, like Thune, have a better feel for what's going on than those of us on this board? It seems to me as well, that many elected officials may be viewing the opening of the Canada border without concurrently opening the Japanese market as potential political suicide, be that right or wrong it's just an observation.
 
Cal: "Is there the possibility that those involved in the negotiations, like Thune, have a better feel for what's going on than those of us on this board?"

One would like to believe that but Thune couldn't support his position on keeping the Canadian border closed based on science either. He parted with the Administration in favor of unsupportable politics.

He still beats Daschle by a long shot.


~SH~
 

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