Soapweed said:okfarmer said:I have read nothing past the first post, didn't need to.
OT doesn't like Gingriche's modern attitude toward women as he has been married too many times.
OT doesn't like Santorum's old fashion attitude who has been faithful to his wife and children.
This leads to only one logical conclusion, OT doesn't like men who like women. Its funny that the guy yelling the loudest about keeping the police out of the bedroom probably is the one with handcuffs and chains in his.
No matter who the Republicans put up, Oldtimer is going to have a hissy fit. He just flat hates Republicans. :roll: Oldtimer hates George W. Bush. George W. Bush was a Republican. Therefore, Oldtimer hates all Republicans. That is how his mind works. :shock:
Oldtimer said:Soapweed said:okfarmer said:I have read nothing past the first post, didn't need to.
OT doesn't like Gingriche's modern attitude toward women as he has been married too many times.
OT doesn't like Santorum's old fashion attitude who has been faithful to his wife and children.
This leads to only one logical conclusion, OT doesn't like men who like women. Its funny that the guy yelling the loudest about keeping the police out of the bedroom probably is the one with handcuffs and chains in his.
No matter who the Republicans put up, Oldtimer is going to have a hissy fit. He just flat hates Republicans. :roll: Oldtimer hates George W. Bush. George W. Bush was a Republican. Therefore, Oldtimer hates all Republicans. That is how his mind works. :shock:
Wrong again Soap-- the only reason I posted the article is it backs what I've thought all along- Dems will have a hayday attacking either Newt or Santorum....
The only R candidate that I believe stands a chance of getting the moderate and Independents votes needed to win a general election and defeating Obama is Romney- altho at this time I don't see myself voting for him ...
The only R I could vote for would be Ron Paul but doubt he will be the candidate (unless he runs as an Independent)... Which leaves me with Gary Johnson hopefully becoming the Libertarian candidate - as both Paul and Johnson are about the only two candidates running that think most the social issues and how individuals and families should live should be left to the individuals and IF any of those issues need to be controlled by statutes it should be left to the states...
Tam said:Oldtimer said:Soapweed said:No matter who the Republicans put up, Oldtimer is going to have a hissy fit. He just flat hates Republicans. :roll: Oldtimer hates George W. Bush. George W. Bush was a Republican. Therefore, Oldtimer hates all Republicans. That is how his mind works. :shock:
Wrong again Soap-- the only reason I posted the article is it backs what I've thought all along- Dems will have a hayday attacking either Newt or Santorum....
The only R candidate that I believe stands a chance of getting the moderate and Independents votes needed to win a general election and defeating Obama is Romney- altho at this time I don't see myself voting for him ...
The only R I could vote for would be Ron Paul but doubt he will be the candidate (unless he runs as an Independent)... Which leaves me with Gary Johnson hopefully becoming the Libertarian candidate - as both Paul and Johnson are about the only two candidates running that think most the social issues and how individuals and families should live should be left to the individuals and IF any of those issues need to be controlled by statutes it should be left to the states...
What a friggin joke you are Oldtimer, you voted for and continuely defend a Democrap that wants nothing more than to have the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT under his control, dictating every aspect of a persons life, so much so he is being taken to court to stop him and you expect us to believe you would vote for a Republican that wants the Federal government the hell out of everything. It is time you stop drinking and let your brain dry out. :roll:
Martin Jr. said:Santorum has never said he intends to make contraception illegal, just wants the government out of it.
What business does the government have in getting into the abortion business and promoting and paying for contraceptives? The government has not right to tell us that we must support all this crap.
It is the government that wants into people's bedrooms, not the pope.
The Catholic church teaches personal responsibility, we are to know what is truth and it is up to us to do what is right or wrong. If many are not following the church's teaching, that does not change the truth.
Steve said:how funny,.. when Bush put through prescription plans for the elderly ,, liberals and OT had a fit due to the costs involved... and did not consider how much was saved in other heath care cost..
now Obama gives away the farm for a health care plan.. .. and the liberals (and OT) are in love..
TSR said:One thing I've noticed is that Obama's health care plan seems to be a work in progress with waivers granted and concessions made along they way.
The birth-control coverage mandate violates the First Amendment's bar against the "free exercise" of religion. But it also violates the Religious Freedom Restoration Act. That statute, passed unanimously by the House of Representatives and by a 97-3 vote in the Senate, was signed into law by President Bill Clinton in 1993. It was enacted in response to a 1990 Supreme Court opinion, Employment Division v. Smith.
That case limited the protections available under the First Amendment's guarantee of free exercise of religion to those government actions that explicitly targeted religious practices, by subjecting them to difficult-to-satisfy strict judicial scrutiny. Other governmental actions, even if burdening religious activities, were held subject to a more deferential test.
The 1993 law restored the same protections of religious freedom that had been understood to exist pre-Smith. The Religious Freedom Restoration Act states that the federal government may "substantially burden" a person's "exercise of religion" only if it demonstrates that application of the burden to the person "is in furtherance of a compelling governmental interest" and "is the least restrictive means of furthering" that interest.
The law also provides that any later statutory override of its protections must be explicit. But there is nothing in the ObamaCare legislation that explicitly or even implicitly overrides the Religious Freedom Restoration Act. The birth-control mandate proposed by Health and Human Services is thus illegal.
Had lower prices been negotiated, would there still have been savings?? IMO yes on two fronts.
Texasbred-- I want rule by a representative form of government- not rule by a Popes decree !!
Santorum can have whatever religious beliefs he wants in his home/family- but his statements saying he would support outlawing contraception takes his religion onto the outside world-- and I'm not a follower of his religion....OT he has the right to take his religion into the outside world. As I said....Prots. can pay for BC and abortion if they want to. Catholic Churches, schools, and charities should not have to.
Many insurance companies already cover drugs/treatment for smoking, alcoholism, drug addiction, mental health issues now as they have realized the treatment and curing of the addiction is often cheaper than paying for the ongoing diseases that chronically plague such individuals...But they do NOT pay for "stop smoking aids" and other things that would be proactive rather than reactive.Also many insurance companies already pay for all or a portion of some birth control drugs...They use the same fiscal thinking in that paying for contraception is much cheaper than paying for an unwanted pregnancy down the line.... Many of the business's that offer insurance have contraceptive coverage because they would rather have their workers on the job- rather than home on maternity leave...OT why do the liberal women's groups always say it's about the woman's health when speaking of abortion?? And IF an employer wants to make birth control available in the company insurance plan that is fine. Just don't make it a mandate for EVERYONE especially those who find it against their conscience and religious belefs. By the wway...will the 1st lady's healthy school meal program force jews and muslims to eat pork at the school breakfast??
TexasBred said:Texasbred-- I want rule by a representative form of government- not rule by a Popes decree !!
Santorum can have whatever religious beliefs he wants in his home/family- but his statements saying he would support outlawing contraception takes his religion onto the outside world-- and I'm not a follower of his religion....OT he has the right to take his religion into the outside world. As I said....Prots. can pay for BC and abortion if they want to. Catholic Churches, schools, and charities should not have to.
Many insurance companies already cover drugs/treatment for smoking, alcoholism, drug addiction, mental health issues now as they have realized the treatment and curing of the addiction is often cheaper than paying for the ongoing diseases that chronically plague such individuals...But they do NOT pay for "stop smoking aids" and other things that would be proactive rather than reactive.Also many insurance companies already pay for all or a portion of some birth control drugs...They use the same fiscal thinking in that paying for contraception is much cheaper than paying for an unwanted pregnancy down the line.... Many of the business's that offer insurance have contraceptive coverage because they would rather have their workers on the job- rather than home on maternity leave...OT why do the liberal women's groups always say it's about the woman's health when speaking of abortion?? And IF an employer wants to make birth control available in the company insurance plan that is fine. Just don't make it a mandate for EVERYONE especially those who find it against their conscience and religious belefs. By the wway...will the 1st lady's healthy school meal program force jews and muslims to eat pork at the school breakfast??
Martin Jr. said:Santorum has never said he intends to make contraception illegal, just wants the government out of it.
What business does the government have in getting into the abortion business and promoting and paying for contraceptives? The government has not right to tell us that we must support all this crap.
It is the government that wants into people's bedrooms, not the pope.
The Catholic church teaches personal responsibility, we are to know what is truth and it is up to us to do what is right or wrong. If many are ot following the church's teaching, that does not change the truth.
And all this mis-information about 98% of people using contraceptives: the study says 98% of "Sexually experienced" women use contraceptives, and that 69% of "sexually active" women use or have used contraceptives.
Now if we could just define "Sexually experienced" (probably means hookers) and "sexually active".
Oldtimer said:TexasBred said:Texasbred-- I want rule by a representative form of government- not rule by a Popes decree !!
Santorum can have whatever religious beliefs he wants in his home/family- but his statements saying he would support outlawing contraception takes his religion onto the outside world-- and I'm not a follower of his religion....OT he has the right to take his religion into the outside world. As I said....Prots. can pay for BC and abortion if they want to. Catholic Churches, schools, and charities should not have to.
Many insurance companies already cover drugs/treatment for smoking, alcoholism, drug addiction, mental health issues now as they have realized the treatment and curing of the addiction is often cheaper than paying for the ongoing diseases that chronically plague such individuals...But they do NOT pay for "stop smoking aids" and other things that would be proactive rather than reactive.Also many insurance companies already pay for all or a portion of some birth control drugs...They use the same fiscal thinking in that paying for contraception is much cheaper than paying for an unwanted pregnancy down the line.... Many of the business's that offer insurance have contraceptive coverage because they would rather have their workers on the job- rather than home on maternity leave...OT why do the liberal women's groups always say it's about the woman's health when speaking of abortion?? And IF an employer wants to make birth control available in the company insurance plan that is fine. Just don't make it a mandate for EVERYONE especially those who find it against their conscience and religious belefs. By the wway...will the 1st lady's healthy school meal program force jews and muslims to eat pork at the school breakfast??
Actually Texasbred- I would not require Catholic organizations to take insurance for contraceptives/birth control-- but in fairness to all- if government is the only way to get all that are financially able to, to accept a level of responsibility- I would require them to take the amount that would go toward that in their insurance policy- and donate it to/spend it on funding adoption agencies and medical facilities like Florence Crittendon home....
if government is the only way to get all that are financially able to, to accept a level of responsibility-
Oldtimer said:This is where I believe, IF Santorum is the candidate, that he loses the ability to be elected-- with women and moderates (that are needed to win the election).... The Dems will target all his past speechs and writings opposing birth control and making women second class citizens....
Palins opposition to birth control and sex education was what sent many Republican and Independent women to Obama and the Dems in the last election....
Over the past several weeks, Republicans have watched squeamishly as presidential contender Rick Santorum has waded into multiple controversies that risk alienating half the 2012 electorate: women.
But in fact, Santorum has grown more popular among women while talking about his opposition to abortion, his disapproval of birth control and his view that the federal government shouldn't pay for prenatal screenings. A new Washington Post-ABC News poll shows not only that Santorum is doing better among GOP women than he was a few weeks ago, but also that he is less unpopular — and also less well known — among Democratic and independent women than his Republican rivals Mitt Romney and Newt Gingrich.