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Secretary of Ag.

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Tap

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I am going to put this on ranch talk at the risk of being told it should be on Bull Session. The reason is that I want a civil answer and not just bitter back and forths. So TTB don't chastise me. I have been on here longer than you anway. :p :lol: :lol:

I hear several ranchers in this area talk about how the Secretary of Agriculture (from either party) doesn't look out for producers and are only interested in cheap food. So the question is: Do you think that the Sec. of Ag. and the USDA were put in place to look out for ranchers, consumers, both, neither or who? Is it possible to have reasonably priced food, and always look out for what is best for farmers and ranchers? Trade agreements are what usually brings the conversation on as to who the USDA is looking out for.

Don't waste my time replying if you want to be nasty to each other. But I would appreciate a response.
 
Mornin', Tap! :D

I think (and this is just opinion, not fact) that they are pretty much like the rest of the federal government, and are only looking out for themselves and their jobs. They will do whatever their "higher-ups" tell them to do, and really don't even think for themselves.

But ya know me...........anti-government all the way! :roll: :lol: :wink:

Have a good one, and try not to get washed away! :wink:
 
Up untill the last election I dont remember votinf for Sec of ag in NC. That is because I never paid it any attention. As alot of people who do not have any intrest or saomeone who is involved in ranching/farming. I wanted to see what the job description was for Sec. all it said was the head of the USDA appointed by the President. So I went to find out what the mission of the USDA is .....
The United States Department of Agriculture (also called the Agriculture Department, or USDA) is a United States Federal Executive Department (or Cabinet Department). Its purpose is to develop and execute policy on farming, agriculture, and food. It aims to meet the needs of farmers and ranchers, promote agricultural trade and production, work to assure food safety, protect natural resources, foster rural communities, also to meet the needs of the American people, and end hunger, in America and abroad.
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To me after reading that his/her job is to help farmers/ranchers then the people. Really the people is the last thing. Looking back over some of the poilcys that have come down s/he has that flipped.
I think part of the problem is the position is appointed........if you have a President who is/has a passion for farming/ranching then you should get someone who will be in favor of the farmers. If he is not then you get someone who will "change" things.
I keep saying and I have heard some of you starting to say it .....farmers/ranchers need to educate "city people" If the largest voting populace has a clue about what yall do and what your needs are you will have quite a few in your corner and voting to support you. Then the Sec of Ag will have to be a postion that has someone qualified in it. Someone who has the farmers/rancher best intrests in mind.
 
Tap, I think you are on to something. I believe we need to define exactly what the Dept of agriculture is really supposed to do. Today it is trying to wear to many hats.

I believe it is there to help both the producers and the consumers. It should not try to set prices or work with world trade. That is a job for those in marketing.

Farmers and ranchers should have a means to establish their prices so as to cover expenses and a reasonable profit, not a price suggested by government. Consumers will have to pay whatever the price that is asked. Some will be able to produce cheaper, this is where competition comes in. Why should food be priced any different than, lets say, the automoble that you buy.
 
Tap great question. I guess when I think of that agency I think of a government controlled agency that may neither be here for consumer or rancher, but more for the betterment of its self. I am not antigovernment at all and I don't debate politics with anyone but I think that it was Ben Franklin( Illl check for sure) that said every good government needs a revalotion every 10 yrs. That's not a direct quote because I paraphrased.
 
Heel Fly said:
Tap great question. I guess when I think of that agency I think of a government controlled agency that may neither be here for consumer or rancher, but more for the betterment of its self. I am not antigovernment at all and I don't debate politics with anyone but I think that it was Ben Franklin( Illl check for sure) that said every good government needs a revalotion every 10 yrs. That's not a direct quote because I paraphrased.
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To paraphrase "Lou Dobbs" (whom I admire very much for being outspoken), and, by the way, I am a staunch Republican;

'The US goverment has handed the Administrative, Congressional, and the Judicial Branches over to the big corporations. They now rule this country'

Our Ag. Secretaries' (recent past and present) are no exception. Cargill, Tyson, ADM, Monsanto, Conagra, and others have enough lobbying power to rule the roost. And do.
 
I agree with Mike that the government in the past several years has become totally controlled by the Corporate world- USDA probably moreso than any others...And Clarence is right USDA has too many hats- ex.-trying to be the Packers/beefs buddy and promoter while also being the policeman that is supposed to oversee and regulate this industry for the protection of the consumer and producer... Daily they have to decide -Which way do we decide to lean this day- on the side of corporate economics, or on the side of consumers best interests and safety :???:
 
Hey Tap...I wouldn't chastize you...you asked a good question. I just chastize those who are looking for the fight!!!

Geez...guess I've really gotten the reputation of an ol' bag!!! :lol:

I think there have been lots of good answers. I always try to tell myself that "production ag" is really a very small percentage of what the USDA does...for instance, Food Stamps, Rural and Community Development.

As for ag related policy...I think initially when the USDA was organized, by President Lincoln in 1862, it was to be an agency whose job was to do research and educate ag. producers. Historically the USDA has been resposible and credited for "improving" crop and livestock genetics, cropping practices, and livestock health, and carrying that research into producer education, thus "bettering" crop and livestock producers. In 1862, USDA was probably somewhat similar to Land Grant University Extension Services and Research Centers. Heck back then they probably dealt more with horses and mules than cattle, hogs, and sheep.

Today, their mission has really changed. Yes, they still maintain the research and education component, but a "bigger" part of what they do is policy, consumer, and conservation related.

Do I think this is right or wrong? I don't really know. But I will say currently agricultural producers make up less than 2% of the US population, in 1862, ag producers made up 58% of the population. And, we are ruled by a majority system, thus it really only makes sense that USDA is more "consumer driven." Do I necessarily agree, no, but also know the reality too.

It has been said that a "fed" people will not rebel. This is probably true. In the US (and Canada for that matter) we have the luxury of the cheapest and SAFEST food supply in the world. But, as I think to myself...how much do I complain when the price of a gallon of milk goes up? How about a dozen eggs, or sacks of flour and sugar? I generally don't, but I do know those who really notice, and bitch and moan to the whole world about it.

As a side note, because of having a cheap food supply, is a nation generally more wealthy, because there is more "disposable income" to spend? Probably so. Lots of us here on ranchers.net have bought new machinery or vehicles in the past couple of years. Could we have lived with our "older" outfits, you bet. However, we live in a spending society. I know for a fact that lazy ace and I could "spend less." However, we also don't complain about the prices we receive or ever complain about how "poor" we are. We both grew up in much more frugal environments than we live in now, and because of that still save a fair bit too. We both knew what it was like to not have money.

I am guessing some of this discussion is stemming out of Johannes drought policy. Remember, he is employed by the US Government (both President and Congress, which are elected by a majority (of those who vote.) We have one side that says taxes are too high and says spending should be curtailed. One side that says taxes should increase and thus increase spending. And, also have a country that dealth with a major stock market crash, economy crash, a terrorist attack on our country, a war, and the worst hurricane season since records have been kept. All of those contribute to the cost of our country doing business.

I know I have more or less ridden the fence. And, yes, those who ride fences cut themselves (being a female, it'll cause a lot less damage than if I were a guy :wink: )

Just out of curiosity I looked up the various agencies of the USDA: Here they are and what USDA describes each as (from http://www.usda.gov/wps/portal/!ut/p/_s.7_0_A/7_0_1OB?navtype=MA&navid=AGENCIES_OFFICES ) If anyone is interested in how much more the USDA really does besides "production ag" check them out below. I learned about agencies I had no idea about.

Sorry this is so long. Have a great day Tap. If I said anything to start a fight, please alert me and I will remove my post.

Cheers---

TTB :wink:

Agricultural Marketing Service (AMS)

AMS facilitates the strategic marketing of agricultural products in domestic and international markets while ensuring fair trading practices and promoting a competitive and efficient marketplace. AMS constantly works to develop new marketing services to increase customer satisfaction.


Agricultural Research Service (ARS)

ARS is USDA's principal in-house research agency. ARS leads America towards a better future through agricultural research and information.


Animal and Plant Health Inspection Service (APHIS)

APHIS provides leadership in ensuring the health and care of animals and plants. The agency improves agricultural productivity and competitiveness and contributes to the national economy and the public health.


Center for Nutrition Policy and Promotion (CNPP)

CNPP works to improve the health and well-being of Americans by developing and promoting dietary guidance that links scientific research to the nutrition needs of consumers.


Cooperative State Research, Education and Extension Service (CSREES)

In partnership with land-grant universities, and other public and private organizations, CREES provides the focus to advance a global system of extramural research, extension, and higher education in the food and agricultural sciences.


Economic Research Service (ERS)

ERS is USDA's principal social science research agency. Each year, ERS communicates research results and socioeconomic indicators via briefings, analyses for policymakers and their staffs, market analysis updates, and major reports.


Farm Service Agency (FSA)

The Farm Service Agency implements agricultural policy, administers credit and loan programs, and manages conservation, commodity, disaster and farm marketing programs through a national network of offices.


Food and Nutrition Service (FNS)

FNS increases food security and reduces hunger in partnership with cooperating organizations by providing children and low-income people access to food, a healthy diet, and nutrition education in a manner that supports American agriculture and inspires public confidence.


Food Safety and Inspection Service (FSIS)

FSIS enhances public health and well-being by protecting the public from foodborne illness and ensuring that the nation's meat, poultry and egg products are safe, wholesome, and correctly packaged.


Foreign Agricultural Service (FAS)

FAS works to improve foreign market access for U.S. products. This USDA agency operates programs designed to build new markets and improve the competitive position of U.S. agriculture in the global marketplace.


Forest Service (FS)

FS sustains the health, diversity and productivity of the Nation's forests and grasslands to meet the needs of present and future generations.


Grain Inspection, Packers and Stockyards Administration (GIPSA)

GIPSA facilitates the marketing of livestock, poultry, meat, cereals, oilseeds, and related agricultural products. It also promotes fair and competitive trading practices for the overall benefit of consumers and American agriculture. GIPSA ensures open and competitive markets for livestock, poultry, and meat by investigating and monitoring industry trade practices.


National Agricultural Library (NAL)

NAL ensures and enhances access to agricultural information for a better quality of life.


National Agricultural Statistics Service (NASS)

NASS serves the basic agricultural and rural data needs of the country by providing objective, important and accurate statistical information and services to farmers, ranchers, agribusinesses and public officials. This data is vital to monitoring the ever-changing agricultural sector and carrying out farm policy.


Natural Resources Conservation Service (NRCS)

NRCS provides leadership in a partnership effort to help people conserve, maintain and improve our natural resources and environment.


Risk Management Agency (RMA)

RMA helps to ensure that farmers have the financial tools necessary to manage their agricultural risks. RMA provides coverage through the Federal Crop Insurance Corporation, which promotes national welfare by improving the economic stability of agriculture.


Rural Development (RD)

RD helps rural areas to develop and grow by offering Federal assistance that improves quality of life. RD targets communities in need and then empowers them with financial and technical resources.
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TTB wrote:we have the luxury of the cheapest and SAFEST food supply in the world.
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1- "Cheapest" - At whose expense? Do you see many farmers/ranchers going into business? No, they are quitting in record numbers.

2- "SAFEST" - Japan has less cases (per capita) of foodborne illness than the USA has. Last time I looked it was "MANY" less.

Not being argumentative here but we do not have a perfect system by any stretch of the imagination.

There is a war going on between the USDA inspection system and the FDA.

Whose responsibility is it to keep our food safe? FDA or USDA? Some might say both but many times we are the ones left behind.
 
Mike said:
TTB wrote:we have the luxury of the cheapest and SAFEST food supply in the world.
Click to expand...

1- "Cheapest" - At whose expense? Do you see many farmers/ranchers going into business? No, they are quitting in record numbers.

2- "SAFEST" - Japan has less cases (per capita) of foodborne illness than the USA has. Last time I looked it was "MANY" less.

Not being argumentative here but we do not have a perfect system by any stretch of the imagination.

There is a war going on between the USDA inspection system and the FDA.

Whose responsibility is it to keep our food safe? FDA or USDA? Some might say both but many times we are the ones left behind.
Click to expand...

Mike:

First, I didn't say whether I agree or disagree with policy. Heck I think it is far from perfect. I don't always agree or disagree with it. I personally think those working for the USDA, especially in the higher levels, have thankless jobs. They might be financially rewarding, but thankless. It appears to me that no one is ever happy.

So, is Japan's food cheaper???

I personally think our food could stand to be more expensive, but on the other hand you end up robbing Peter to pay Paul. If you raise the price of food, then how many others have to take Govt. assistance to feed their families and themselves? Then who pays the increase in taxes to maintain this? You, me, middle and upper class Joe, etc. If you think it's hard to get drought or any other assistance now, what about when there are more folks getting food stamps?

Mike, we currently have a ranchers.net member, who lives in the US (I think also a citizen) who is worried about where to get the money to buy a gallon of milk for cereal, and how to relay that to his/her daughter. I'd say that they are probably wondering why milk is so expensive. To my knowledge they are also a member of the working class (ie not unemployed, just laying around being a bum)

How many main streets lose business because more of the consumers dollar goes to food? It's not an easy answer, certainly not two plus two equal four. More like a complex calculus equation.

How can you say Japan's food is safer when they have had far more cases of BSE (Japan had 3.575 cases per million head of cattle 24 mo. of age and older in 2005; US for same period, per million head 24 mo. and older, .024. Japan has had 28 cases of BSE in cattle 24 mo. and older, the US 3, counting the imported Canadian case, for the same period) and Avian Influenza (H5N1) than the US has had? In the case of High Path AI, the US had not had (thankfully) a case in either bird or human. Japan has had cases in both. So, in terms of safety of food, are you saying Japan has less E Coli 0157:H7 and Salmonella cases than the US?

I'd still eat our food any day over theirs...but then again, I'm not a huge fan of fish, and I'm afraid I'd get awfully tired of the rice too!

As for the government turf wars...Mike you're absolutely correct that the FDA and USDA are battling. Especially between FDA, FSIS, and APHIS. And, quite frankly, it'd likely been less producer friend had Kerry been elected, and there is big potential to be less producer/production friendly after the next Presidential election. Those are my opinions...nothing more.

Mike, I believe it is the responsibility of producers, processors, food sellers, consumers and the Govt. to keep our food safe. I sure hope you think you have a role in food safety too!!!

Cheers---

TTB :wink:

Sorry for the two edits...I've read, and re-read and still finding misspellings that spell check didn't obviously catch...uggghhh.
 
Thank you all for the good replies. It seems to me that being the Sec. of Ag. would be a no-win job. You have to answer to the Pres., satisfy farmers and ranchers (who are seldom satisfied :wink: ) and also work for consumers. It all kind of boils down to what the mindset of the administration is at the time. Even if you had your own thoughts, you still have to answer to the President.
 
I wonder about the food-bourne illness stats and comparing Japan with the USA. Considering the high usage of mayonnaise here plus hot weather how many cases of salmonella are we more apt to have than Japan? Not sure they even use mayo.
Or do the food stats NOT include prepared foods?? I don't know the answer. Comparing BSE to food poisoning seems like comparing apples to potatoes.
 
All these replies were great. After reading them I came away with there isn't a correct way to please every entity because everyone has their own butts they are worried about. I guess that is why I'd never hold any office due to such a headache involved!! It was great reading without having to sort through nasty insults.
 
nr said:
I wonder about the food-bourne illness stats and comparing Japan with the USA. Considering the high usage of mayonnaise here plus hot weather how many cases of salmonella are we more apt to have than Japan? Not sure they even use mayo.
Or do the food stats NOT include prepared foods?? I don't know the answer. Comparing BSE to food poisoning seems like comparing apples to potatoes.
Click to expand...

I have wondered about that myself. I will look up the stats when I have time. I "think" it's just hospital visits related to food borne diagnosis'.

The clincher is that not many food borne illnesses get reported. One in 50 I think I read.

My main point in bringing it up was that the propaganda put out by the USDA has been ongoing for several years. We have been fed a false sense of security.

This leads to apathy which leads to less control of food of the inspection process.

This latest case of E-Coli in spinach is a prime example. HAACP has allowed the food processors to be able to monitor themselves. Kinda like letting the fox guard the henhouse.
 
I know the three folks who got food poisoning fro chicken salad at my folks house a few years ago didn't report anything... Too darn sick to sit by the phone but that was moms fault, not heilmans.
 
feeder, I believe you are right. The Sec of ag. has always been the goat according to the farmers and ranchers. I don't remember them all but can go back to Clifford Harding, Orville freeman and Earl Butz. Earl Butz was most favored by the farmers because he encouraged farmer to farm more and produce more. This is what farmers like to do, what they can do best. He promised if we could produce more, that more and better markets would be found. This did not happen. That is why it irks me to have the Dept. of Ag. try to control production or try to control prices. They have tried to limit production, but always have planned a surplus to keep prices low. (Why would anyone plan for a shortage? It wouldn't make sense) If we could price our products correctly, production and supply would come in line. Prices would then be based on the efficiency of the producer.
 

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