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Selling Bulls / buying bulls

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jigs

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I am very interested in selling a couple bulls this next year. I have two bull calves marked very well, and the growth is just phenominal. I have epd's and all the papers on my bulls I buy, but the cows are all replacements and good stock to start with, but no records.

My neighbor has really taken a shine to the looks of my calves and thinks I ought to pursue it......question is, is it worth the hassle of tracking all the data for just a few bulls? And how many guys out there just buy on the looks?>


I admit, the epd's do not really make the sale for me. If the numbers say bull "A" is the better bull, but bull"B" has the better 'look' I will buy bull "B". am I the only one left ignoring epds ???
 

Aaron

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If the calves are off your top cows and are off solid bulls, you already have them sold. Heck, as far as commercial production goes, I would buy a good grade bull and currently have a one running with our commercial cows. Alot of purebred bulls for sale every year that come off mediocre cows.

EPD's are a handy asset, but if you know your cows and have been breeding generations for certain traits (ie low birth/high weaning etc.), then you know what to expect and can relay that information to your customer.
 

Mike

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jigs said:
I am very interested in selling a couple bulls this next year. I have two bull calves marked very well, and the growth is just phenominal. I have epd's and all the papers on my bulls I buy, but the cows are all replacements and good stock to start with, but no records.

My neighbor has really taken a shine to the looks of my calves and thinks I ought to pursue it......question is, is it worth the hassle of tracking all the data for just a few bulls? And how many guys out there just buy on the looks?>


I admit, the epd's do not really make the sale for me. If the numbers say bull "A" is the better bull, but bull"B" has the better 'look' I will buy bull "B". am I the only one left ignoring epds ???

EPD's are just another toll in the box. You might consider EPD's when choosing between two bulls who are similar in conformation though. But let me tell you how accurate EPD's can be; My partners and I have a bull enrolled in the "Conception to Consumer" (C to C) program with the Canadian Charolais Assoc. The average weaning weights of the two sire groups were within one pound of the EPD spread, and the yearling weights were within just a couple of pounds.
They are not always this accurate but all we have for prediction. Use 'em, you'll be glad you did.
 

PPRM

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From your post, I am assuming you are selling non registered stock.

I have some freinds that sell yearlings every year from their commercial erd. He doesn't do any special feeding. I bought one from him for my herd 16 months ago. He was a herder, but sure goit the breeding done. I paid $900 for him, not sure where the price is today. Point is he was getting a couple huindred extra every year for his ten best male calves. That's the cheap way in to get a little extra.

One of the best bulls I ever had was just a nice calf that grew like hell from a plain cow. Bought them as a pair and didn't get around to marking him. Watched him grow and decided not to. Actually collected from him as he is the base sire to my cows. Frontier Genetics in Hermiston collected. Several people from several breed organizations were wanting to know where he came from as he was a shiner. Their hope was he was one of their own. Never pulled any calves from him, and always had big growthy weaned calves with lots of class.

My point is there are some commercial herds that have been buying great bulls forever. They have upgraded their cows to a point where their calves aren't much different in performance than the purebred guys. When I find a commercial herd I like, I am not against seeing if the guy will set aside a few for me. I buy them young and grow them out. He makes some more and the cost to me is a lot less,

Just a different view than the norm,

PPRM
 

Faster horses

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With our straight-bred commercial Angus herd, we have people that want to get bulls from us. We aren't in the bull raising business. However, people are persistent. A couple of years ago some neighbors wanted a bull from us and at branding, picked one out and stood over it so they could be sure it remained a bull. They picked it up that fall and it has worked outstanding for them. The bull looks good and what he produces has turned out very well.

A great old cowman told us this about buying bulls when we started in this business (before EPD's). "Go to a good outfit and buy the middle, don't go to a poor outfit and buy the best". I think that is good advice still today. If you have a good herd of cattle, you should be able to sell some bulls just on the merit of the cows.

I think if you save the top end of your calves, it will work fine for you. Sounds like you already have some interest.

Rice Ranch, here in Montana has made this type of deal very successful for themselves. They buy good herd sires, breed their commercial cows and sell commercial bulls for quite a lot of money. When we needed some heifer bulls a few years ago, we went to Tri-Mountain Angus at Townsend. That program is based on low-birthweight. He pasture breeds, knows the cows and weighs the calf at birth and performance records the calves. He DOES NOT know which bull each calf is out of. Those bulls worked wonderful as heifer bulls and one of them is an outstanding individual which we still have. Those were relative inexpensive bulls, too. Although they weren't registered, they did just what the man said they would because he knows what he has done with that bunch of cattle. He pays a lot of money for his herd bulls as well.

Stay focused on what you want to do, and go for it. Breed what you want, don't be swayed by what they want. There is a lot of people that are in the business of selling 'bulls', but their cowherd has suffered. That's where you can come in.

Hope this helps!! JMHO, however!
 

alabama

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Start with the EPD's. Find a set of bulls that have the EPD's you need and then pick out of that groop the bull you like the looks of. With all the bulls out there you can get what you want at a fair price.
 

katrina

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Papers are just that.....Papers. Go for it!!! If nothing else use it for a learning tool... MIke... I have some old, old Charlois seman in my tank. How can I find out what it is? Is there a web site I can go to? Thanks...
 

Mike

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katrina said:
Papers are just that.....Papers. Go for it!!! If nothing else use it for a learning tool... MIke... I have some old, old Charlois seman in my tank. How can I find out what it is? Is there a web site I can go to? Thanks...

Katrina, Shoot me the numbers off it, I'll be glad to find out for you.

P.S. I haven't forgotten your return favor. It should be here soon.
 

Mike

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katrina said:
Quick Silver, ch0140? You don't have to get us anything Mike...

Not enough numbers. Should 6 digit numbers. Take a look and let me know. You might have something there that's worth more than you think.
 

Mike

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Mike said:
katrina said:
Quick Silver, ch0140? You don't have to get us anything Mike...

Not enough numbers. Should 6 digit numbers. Take a look and let me know. You might have something there that's worth more than you think.
------------------------------------------------------------
Could this be him?

Name Birthdate
M433372 506 QUICK SILVER 506 PLD 11 March 1995
Sex Male BLD Horn P
% 32/32 DNA
Breeder 142495 DAN & KATHY QUICK REDDING IA

Owner 19799 STUCK FARMS GRAND RIVER IA
 

Mike

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Katrina, I've got it narrowed down to either:

1-Silver Creek High Rise, or,
2-Silver Creek High Guy, a son of the above.

Either way this semen is old and may be wanted by some show people. I am waiting for an e-mail on it and will check to see what it's worth. If you want to sell it you may have to have a straw checked. How many you have? Mike
 

the_jersey_lilly_2000

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Well for the commercial cattle rancher like ourselves....EPD's mean alot but aren't what our operation is based on... I have grade bulls...and I buy strictly on looks . If I dont like the look of a bull.....he aint ridin in my trailer. If you have an eye for cattle you know what ya like. I do however when looking for a bull..go take a look at his sire and dam if possible, and see what kinda calves are on the ground at that time from them. One of the bulls I have now (that I concider my "top" bull) is paperless. His sire was papered. But that still doesn't matter to me. I've been to several Ranches that raise nothing but registered stock and can't find anything that compares with this bull. Same goes for horses, ya can't ride papers. Not that some of em aren't extremely good horses....but there are also some extremely good horses that dont have papers....
I"ve been asked by several surrounding ranches ...when are you gonna start selling your heifers at replacement sales?.....so in a way I think that speaks for itself.
Just my 2 cents worth..
 

katrina

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Mike, I (think) there is only one straw, but I've got other canes I need to sort out. My book says I have 10 straws. I'll give it to you just to get rid of it, if you pay the postage. I'll get my honey to help me, It's hard to hold the light, pull seman and write.
 

Soapweed

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Mrs. Soapweed and I went on a bull buying expedition today. A friend who raises good commercial Angus cattle sold me some yearling bulls last year. (Actually I traded him a black "Cormorant" horse for one and bought five others.) This year he had seven more for sale. We met him in Valentine, and paid his asking price of a thousand dollars apiece. They look to be of good quality, and not overfed. We probably paid a dollar per pound. We will use them this summer, and sell them when the breeding season is over in mid August. Rent should be pretty cheap when the dust settles, and my cows have no idea if their male consorts are highly pedigreed or not. :wink:
 

Nicky

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We used to have registered and commercial cattle but ran them all the same here in the high desert. We never showed or did much promoting, and there are 3 well known Hereford within 50 miles of us and many more within easy "bull sale" distance. We quit registering about 5 years ago, and don't have single sire groups very often. We still AI (did 65 this year) however. Since we have lived here we've only sold bulls to one neighbor, and he doesn't care if they have papers or not. He's buying 4 this year, we get $1800.00 for them, they are Feb 04 bulls.
 

Northern Rancher

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Nicky I was out to Alberta this weekend and got a look at my new bull again-he was wintered on 5 lbs of oats/day plus slage/straw at a 50-50 ratio-he looks great-they gonna ultrasound him the end of the months -I think he'll do great-just drooling thinking of those baldie heifers he'll make lol.
 

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