Shamie has some explainin' to do

[lightninboy]

So you're willing to settle for a 9-11 Commission Report which you KNOW is not accurate.

Do you think you could get away with shoddy workmanship like that in the real world? But if the government gets away with it, there's no telling what else they're getting away with.

 

[Tam]

Just where do you think the wheels, seats, parts of the airplane body, black boxes, and the DNA from the flight passengers came from Shamie?

I recall seeing something in a link I posted that there were some airplane parts in the wreckage but they didn't match the model of the plane and Terry said he thought it was an American Airlines 737 but American Airlines had no 737s and Mossad must have painted a used plane to look like an American Airlines plane.

And please explain the EYEWITNESS ACCOUNTS of the event that all say it was an AIRPLANE. and please don't cherry pick out statements and take them out of context like your youtube buddies do. :wink:

Aren't there EYEWITNESS ACCOUNTS who didn't see an AIRPLANE?

about 89 The amount of eye witnesses I gathered who stated they saw an object crash into the Pentagon. The vast majority of the still available ones.
at least 45 The amount of eye witnesses who reported seeing a plane and described it with words like: 'airliner', 'big', 'silver', 'roaring', etc.
at least 23 The amount of eye witnesses who specifically said they saw an American Airlines jet. In all cases a large jet.
at least 22 The amount of witnesses who reported the noise of the plane was very loud to deafening.
at least 17 The amount of eye witnesses who stated they saw a plane running down light poles when crossing the highways.
at least 12 The amount of eye witnesses who stated they saw and heard the plane increase its throttle at the last seconds.
at least 11 The amount of eye witnesses who stated they saw a C-130H flying 30 seconds behind a jetliner.
at least 5 The amount of eye witnesses who specifically stated they saw the plane had its gear up.

at least 2 The amount of eye witnesses who stated that they saw a small corporate jet, without doing any creative interpretating [sic] of the witness accounts.
at least 0 The amount of eye witnesses who stated they saw a missile. What the person thought he heard isn't relevant!
at least 0 The amount of eye witnesses who stated they saw a military jet fighter at the time of the crash.
at least 0 The amount of eye witnesses who stated they saw a Global Hawk at the time of the crash.
at least 3 The amount of witnesses who reported the sound of the plane was quite noiseless. (One of them acknowledged it was the shock)
at least 1 The amount of eye witnesses who stated they saw the plane had it's gear down. (Indirect, said a wheel hit a pole)
at least 25 The amount of witnesses who have said something that might point to the use of explosives or incendiaries. (White flash, powerful blast waves which blew people through the air, molten glass, burning aluminium, [sic] spreading debris over hundreds of yards back to where the plane came from, including 2 engines, the missing plane itself, etc.)
1
A quick look at this summary indicates overwhelming support by the eyewitnesses that a large jetliner crashed into the Pentagon.

 

[okfarmer]

I got an explanation....


http://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/200501/conspiracy-theories-explained
Conspiracy Theories Explained
Random events are deeply meaningful to paranoid schizophrenics. Is something happening in their brains?
By Kathleen McGowan, published on November 01, 2004 - last reviewed on February 20, 2007
Paranoid schizophrenics are prone to delusions, tales in which random events become deeply meaningful. Some believe in complex conspiracies; others think they are Jesus Christ.

These stories sound crazy, but they may be the brain's efforts to make sense of its own internal messages, suggests Shitij Kapur, professor of psychiatry at the University of Toronto and vice president of research at the Canadian Centre for Addiction and Mental Health. In addition to other brain abnormalities, schizophrenics have too much dopamine. Just as addicts' desensitized dopamine systems make them feel that nothing matters, high levels of the neurotransmitter make schizophrenics believe that everything is significant.

Because the addict's dopamine-driven salience system keeps telling her that something very important is happening, ordinary events appear intensely meaningful. That police car? That song on the radio? That man with a cigarette walking by? They must be part of a massive international conspiracy.

Kapur calls it "biased inductive logic"—a top-down effort to explain the feeling that everything seems important. The cognitive parts of a schizophrenic's brain create the paranoid tale in an effort to explain the constant red alert blaring from the dopamine circuits, using any stimuli available. This is why delusions are culturally appropriate. African schizophrenics may fear they've fallen under the spell of a shaman, while Kapur's patients in Toronto think that the Mounties are after them.

Kapur cautions that this theory is still speculative, but it could support a radical idea: treating schizophrenia with cognitive therapy. If drugs control the overactive dopamine system, patients may then gradually unlearn their delusions.



http://abcnews.go.com/Health/MindMoodNews/story?id=6443988&page=1




Conspiracy Theorist: As a Mental Illness
One person who is a conspiracy theorist says he gives an "accurate account of history." The problem is that in his paranoid imagination he believes he is right. Again, it does not matter if you show him to be totally wrong, because to him you then become part of the conspiracy. In short they have lost all touch with reality.

He and other conspiracy theorists change their so called evidence in response to each part of the conspiracy that is debunked. As soon as one delusion is unmasked, they simply invent another to replace it, and deny the first ever exsisted. Theorists aften argue that those who debunk such information are themselves involved in the conspiracy.

If some new information appears to undermine a conspiracy theory, either the plot is changed to make it consistent with the new information, or the theorist questions the legitimacy of the new information. This is something one can see over and over again in their comments.

They spend countless hours looking for things to support their theory. The sad thing is that when they find information that shows them wrong they simply bypass it and find people [and sources] to support their theory. They have the Idea that the greater the lie the more easily it is swallowed by the likeminded people.

 

[lightninboy]

American Airlines Flight 77
Controversies

http://www.911myths.com/index.php/American_Airlines_Flight_77


Flight 77 and the Pentagon.
What Really Happened?

http://guardian.150m.com/pentagon/small/911-flights.htm


Flight 77 Passengers

http://911review.org/Wiki/Flight77Passengers.shtml


Victims Lists, Passenger Manifests, and the Alleged Hijackers

http://911research.wtc7.net/planes/evidence/passengers.html


American Flight 77 victims at a glance

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2001/09/12/victim-capsule-flight77.htm


ALLEGED 9/11 HIJACKERS:
AMERICAN AIRLINES Flight 77

http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/hijackers_flt_77.html


American Airlines Flight 77—The Key to the 9/11 Enigma?

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=10158


9/11: A Boeing 757 Struck the Pentagon

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread79655/pg1


American Airlines Flight 77 Crash Evidence
Witness accounts

http://www.911myths.com/index.php/American_Airlines_Flight_77_Crash_Evidence


What actually hit the Pentagon: an old stone apparently left unturned
Best picture yet of the phony remains of the phony American Airlines Flight 77, silvery-coated Green 737 Military TERCOM-piloted drone airplane that struck the Pentagon on 9/11/2001 after it's short flight from Beckley Airport in West Virginia!

http://forum.prisonplanet.com/index.php?PHPSESSID=timq3jqu2beuo5c02p9cqjpv13&topic=164982.0


MADNESS: the aircraft

http://www.pnpzone.com/010917_madness/the%20aircraft.htm


Even if a 757 piloted by Al Queda hit the Pentagon, Al Queda is a CIA operative.

 

[Tam]

American Airlines Flight 77
Controversies

http://www.911myths.com/index.php/American_Airlines_Flight_77


Flight 77 and the Pentagon.
What Really Happened?

http://guardian.150m.com/pentagon/small/911-flights.htm


Flight 77 Passengers

http://911review.org/Wiki/Flight77Passengers.shtml


Victims Lists, Passenger Manifests, and the Alleged Hijackers

http://911research.wtc7.net/planes/evidence/passengers.html


American Flight 77 victims at a glance

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2001/09/12/victim-capsule-flight77.htm


ALLEGED 9/11 HIJACKERS:
AMERICAN AIRLINES Flight 77

http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/hijackers_flt_77.html


American Airlines Flight 77—The Key to the 9/11 Enigma?

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=10158


9/11: A Boeing 757 Struck the Pentagon

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread79655/pg1


American Airlines Flight 77 Crash Evidence
Witness accounts

http://www.911myths.com/index.php/American_Airlines_Flight_77_Crash_Evidence


What actually hit the Pentagon: an old stone apparently left unturned
Best picture yet of the phony remains of the phony American Airlines Flight 77, silvery-coated Green 737 Military TERCOM-piloted drone airplane that struck the Pentagon on 9/11/2001 after it's short flight from Beckley Airport in West Virginia!

http://forum.prisonplanet.com/index.php?PHPSESSID=timq3jqu2beuo5c02p9cqjpv13&topic=164982.0


MADNESS: the aircraft

http://www.pnpzone.com/010917_madness/the%20aircraft.htm


Even if a 757 piloted by Al Queda hit the Pentagon, Al Queda is a CIA operative.

Even if :shock: You posted how many eyewitness accounts saying it was an airplane and you still say IF. :roll:

If it wasn't a 757 loaded with the list of passengers that YOU POSTED then where is Flight 77 and the passengers that were on it? :?

And do you have any evidence that AL Queada is an CIA operative. Or is this statement going to be like the one on the Patriot Act where you claim one thing and when questioned you sheepishly admit you don't know much about the Act. :roll:

 

[Anonymous]

now there is a strawman question.

what happened to the passengers? I have no idea but since you will not support a new investigation you will never know either. they did not crash into the pentagon. that i promise. no evidence....

what about flight 93...it was shot down...yet,the govt does some bs story about LETS ROLL...all lies like pat tillman and jessica lynch and now obl....just lies for morons to believe...with no evidence of it...once you prove they are lying in one area the rest of the cards fall.

 

[aplusmnt]

How many conspiracies do you believe in Shamu? Sounds like you are the follower not the free thinker. You seem to believe every conspiracy out there.

Kind of like my Nephew who I asked why he Pierced his lip and he told me so he could be his own person but in reality instead of wanting to be like normal people he just copied loony people.

Sounds like that is the way you are, instead of following the norm you chose to follow the loons.

Either way you skin the cat you are still a follower! Me I respect leaders not loony followers!

 

[hopalong]

now there is a strawman question.

what happened to the passengers? I have no idea but since you will not support a new investigation you will never know either. they did not crash into the pentagon. that i promise. no evidence....


That is an understement :wink: :roll:

what about flight 93...it was shot down...yet,the govt does some bs story about LETS ROLL...all lies like pat tillman and jessica lynch and now obl....just lies for morons to believe...with no evidence of it...once you prove they are lying in one area the rest of the cards fall.

utiubes just for the morons like you to believe!!! :roll:

 

[Anonymous]

now there is a strawman question.

what happened to the passengers? I have no idea but since you will not support a new investigation you will never know either. they did not crash into the pentagon. that i promise. no evidence....


That is an understement :wink: :roll:

what about flight 93...it was shot down...yet,the govt does some bs story about LETS ROLL...all lies like pat tillman and jessica lynch and now obl....just lies for morons to believe...with no evidence of it...once you prove they are lying in one area the rest of the cards fall.

utiubes just for the morons like you to believe!!! :roll:

too much truth there for cowards....

 

[Tam]

now there is a strawman question.

what happened to the passengers? I have no idea but since you will not support a new investigation you will never know either. they did not crash into the pentagon. that i promise. no evidence....

what about flight 93...it was shot down...yet,the govt does some bs story about LETS ROLL...all lies like pat tillman and jessica lynch and now obl....just lies for morons to believe...with no evidence of it...once you prove they are lying in one area the rest of the cards fall.

:roll:

Location of human remains, Forensics, DNA identification, personal effects found

Excerpt fromCollapse Rescue Operations At The Pentagon 9-11 Attack A Case Study on Urban Search and Rescue Disaster Response (PDF)

The following approach was applied to the recovery of Pentagon Incident fatalities: When a victim was located, work in the area was halted to protect the body, personal belongings, and evidence. An FBI evidence team (one of several on constant standby in front of the collapse) would document the site and gather evidence. If physical extrication was required, a Rescue Squad from the assigned US&R task force was given this task. The next step in the process was a Military Mortuary Team who collected and removed the victim from the building.

All the debris removed from the building was spread out by the heavy equipment, and (on the signal of the IST US&R Specialist) the equipment would stop and Canine Search Teams from the US&R Task Forces would deploy across the material in search of any scent indicating human remains. Then US&R Search Team members would conduct a physical search for remains, crawling and walking over all the debris. Finally, after being searched three or more times, the debris would be loaded into trucks with skip loaders, where it would be taken to one of the Pentagon parking lots to be further combed for human remains and evidence by the FBI, ATF, Military units, and the Arlington Police Department. (p. 8)

The remains of every flight 77 victim but one (a two-year-old) was recovered and positively identified by forensics experts. Personal effects of many survived the crash and fires and were returned to the victims' families.

Are you going to tell the victims families they didn't get their family members personal effects back? :roll: I hear one was a wedding ring don't you think the husband would know if it was his wife's or not?
JUST GO AWAY SHAM YOU ARE NOT WANTED HERE AND TAKE YOUR BUDDY LIGHTNIN WITH YOU.

 

[lightninboy]

I got an explanation....

Conspiracy Theories Explained

Conspiracy theorists are potentially better citizens than non-conspiracy theorists.

Non-conspiracy theorists are sheeple.

Non-conspiracy theorists are what got the country into this shape.

The actual quote by Jefferson is "When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty."

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." - Thomas Jefferson

 

[lightninboy]

what happened to the passengers?

Maybe CIA/Mossad crashed the plane into the Atlantic where it wouldn't be found?

The remains of every flight 77 victim but one (a two-year-old) was recovered and positively identified by forensics experts. Personal effects of many survived the crash and fires and were returned to the victims' families.

Are you going to tell the victims families they didn't get their family members personal effects back? :roll: I hear one was a wedding ring don't you think the husband would know if it was his wife's or not?

Have you got more proof of that?

 

[lightninboy]

Even if :shock: You posted how many eyewitness accounts saying it was an airplane and you still say IF. :roll:

I told you I'm no expert. I appreciate us discussing this and learning together.

And do you have any evidence that AL Queada is an CIA operative. Or is this statement going to be like the one on the Patriot Act where you claim one thing and when questioned you sheepishly admit you don't know much about the Act. :roll:

The so-called "mastermind" behind the 9/11 attacks is actually a scapegoat. Osama Bin Laden was not responsible for 9/11. Al Qaeda was not responsible for 9/11. Al Qaeda is the CIA's rogue network that is used to destabilize other nations that do no support American hegemony in the Middle East. The manufactured creature that is Al Qaeda also has the added benefit of making the American people believe that there is a scary enemy out there who wants to destroy their country and overturn their way of life.
The real criminal sociopaths who did 9/11 remain in power in Washington's shadow government, and it is their plan to destroy America from within in order for a global technocratic government to arise out of the ashes of an old world order.

http://disquietreservations.blogspot.com/2011/05/its-all-sick-joke-osama-bin-laden-did.html


That the "Bomb Plot Is Said to Contain 'Hallmarks of Al Qaeda'," would be laughable by now, except that so many Americans have yet to "[...]realize that the terrorists are mostly assets of [U.S.] intelligence agencies and that most terror attacks have been state sponsored."

http://theintelhub.com/2010/10/30/bomb-plot-is-said-to-contain-%E2%80%98hallmarks-of-al-qaeda%E2%80%99/


Shepard Ambellas, October 30, 2010, in his editorial, also referred to "Al-CIA-duh".

http://www.oilempire.us/qaeda.html


"Al-Qaeda" Does Not Exist
Did Osama really choose to name his terror network after potty humor or was it a computer database he used to chat with his CIA handlers?

http://www.infowars.com/articles/terror/al_qaeda_does_not_exist_bin_laden.htm


Al-Qaeda Is A Front Group For The US Military-Industrial Complex

http://www.infowars.com/al-qaeda-is-a-front-group-for-the-us-military-industrial-complex/


Adam Pearlman is blatantly an Mossad spy who is releasing fake Al-Qaeda videos to bolster the geopolitical agenda of both the United States and Israel.

http://www.infowars.com/contrived-propaganda-tapes-reveal-war-on-terror-fraud/


The Al Qaeda threat is "exaggerated":
120,000 US Troops fighting "No More that 50 Members of Al Qaeda"

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=21059


Al-Qaeda 100% Pentagon Run

http://www.infowars.com/al-qaeda-100-pentagon-run/

 

[hopalong]

now there is a strawman question.

what happened to the passengers? I have no idea but since you will not support a new investigation you will never know either. they did not crash into the pentagon. that i promise. no evidence....


That is an understement :wink: :roll:

what about flight 93...it was shot down...yet,the govt does some bs story about LETS ROLL...all lies like pat tillman and jessica lynch and now obl....just lies for morons to believe...with no evidence of it...once you prove they are lying in one area the rest of the cards fall.

utiubes just for the morons like you to believe!!! :roll:

too much truth there for cowards....[/quote]

Care to call me that to my face, We already know you are a coward

 

[lightninboy]

what about flight 93...it was shot down...yet,the govt does some bs story about LETS ROLL...all lies like pat tillman and jessica lynch and now obl....just lies for morons to believe...with no evidence of it...once you prove they are lying in one area the rest of the cards fall.

Flight 93 is a good topic for discussion.


More Holes in the Official Story:
The 9/11 Cell Phone Calls
by Michel Chossudovsky

http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/CHO408B.html


ERROR: 'Flight 93 Didn't Crash in Shanksville, PA'

http://www.911review.com/errors/phantom/flight93.html


September 11th Conspiracies - Flight 93
Author: Edward L Winston
Contributors: Dave Sorensen
1.The Plane Landed Safely in Cleveland
2.Sound of Wind on Phone Call Proves Missile Attack
3.Final Call from Flight 93 Ended with Reports of Explosion and Smoke
4.An Engine was Found Far from the Crash Site

http://conspiracies.skepticproject.com/articles/911/flight-93/


How Did United Flight 93 Crash?

http://www.flight93crash.com/


Alleged Oddities of Phone Calls from Doomed Flights

http://911research.wtc7.net/planes/analysis/phonecalls.html


The Cellphone and Airfone Calls from Flight UA93

http://www.physics911.net/cellphoneflight93


Husband of Flight 93 Attendant: "Cell Phones Don't Work on a Plane ..."

http://shoestring911.blogspot.com/2008/04/husband-of-flight-93-attendant-cell.html


911 Guide
A Guide Through Common 9/11 Conspiracy Theories
Flight 93

http://www.freewebs.com/911guide/flight93.htm


The "no phone calls" also distracts from physical evidence and eyewitness testimony that Flight 93 was probably shot down over Shanksville, Pennsylvania.

http://www.oilempire.us/no-phone.html

 

[hopalong]

BULL crap, cell phones DO work on planes, !!!!!!!!

As a pilot and plane owner I have used mine several times while in the air at various heights. Would you like to take a ride with me to prove it??????

 

[lightninboy]

Except for a few anomalies such as a landing strut and a gear from a rotary actuator of a wing slat, much of the evidence points toward other types of aircraft other than the Boeing 757. Both of these artifacts could have been planted, may not have been photographed in the debris, or the person who identified the Boeing 757 piece could have been a disinformationist. It's so hard to be sure. One can only look at the evidence available and draw provisional interpretations. Some of the evidence for a missile, specifically a cruise missile, cannot be easily refuted or questioned. You must decide if the Secretary of Defense, Donald Rumsfeld, lied about the missile, or lied that an American Airlines Boeing 757 slammed into the Pentagon on September 11, 2001.

http://www.notafreemason.com/Missile-Not-Flight-77.html


A Cruise Missile at The Pentagon
by Peter Wakefield Sault

http://www.odeion.org/cruisemissile/index.html


The cruise missile theory

http://jpdesm.pagesperso-orange.fr/pentagon/pages-en/th-cruism.html


Pentagon "Missile" Hoax
discredits and distracts from real evidence

http://www.oilempire.us/pentagon.html


The Pentagon pictures suggest an AGM-86 cruise missile struck on 911.

http://exodus2006.com/missile2.htm


Improbable as this fact may seem to you, the Boeing 757-200 that was American Airlines Flight 77 could not have flown the maneuvers that were reported for it in the last 3 1/2 minutes before the 9/11/01 crash into the Pentagon.
This airliner, its wingspan 124 feet and its length 155 feet and the height from the bottom of its engines to the top of its fuselage more than 18 feet, supposedly performed feats that are possible only by much smaller and/or military aircraft.
The aircraft that performed the precise maneuvers culminating in the Pentagon strike was likely a remote-controlled plane such as a Global Hawk.
Further disproving official accounts of American Airlines Flight 77, the damage to the Pentagon on 9/11/01 could not have been made by a Boeing 757-200.
Again, physical facts are the proof. Many photos show that the initial damage to the Pentagon's west block on 9/11/01 to be not more than 90 feet wide across the first floor, to be not more than 13 feet wide across the second floor, and to be not more than 26 feet high.
Several researchers believe that the likeliest cause for the damage and deaths at the Pentagon on 9/11/01 was internal explosives in combination with a "cruise missile with wings" (as Mike Walter described what he saw hit the Pentagon) such as Boeing's AGM-86, a Conventional Air Launched Cruise Missile (CALCM).

http://www.wtc7.net/books/greatcrimes/part4.html


What we could see in this hypotheses if the FBI and/or DOD released the complete video. What could it be ? Hypotheses : it is an AGM 86 cruise missile.

http://www.apfn.org/apfn/flight77.htm


I made an alternative 9/11 Timeline!

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=61632

 

[Tam]

at least 0 The amount of eye witnesses who stated they saw a missile.

AT LEAST 0 witnessed a missile LB that is zero as in NONE witnessed a missile. :roll: The summary was the EYEWITNESSES SAW AN AIRPLANE. :wink:

 

[lightninboy]

I think a cruise missile hit the Pentagon. It's a matter of physics.

 

[Tam]

I think a cruise missile hit the Pentagon. It's a matter of physics.

To bad the people that actually WITNESSED THE PLANE HITTING THE PENTAGON don't agree with you. It's a matter of fact THEY SAW THE PLANE NOT A MISSILE. :wink: