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Sinclair Cattle Co

Oldtimer said:
EXT's grandsire Emulation 31 is DOC -21...
A bull I am questioning some first calf heifers on now is OCC Magnitude who's mgs is EXT... His docility has dropped to -9 and a couple of granddaughter heifers are pretty high headed and might not make the cut- altho their sire was plumb quiet... Nice looking heifers- but if I see anything more, they will be hitting the road... I'll be offering LCP a good deal on some heifers! :wink:
Nothing wild or mean stays around here either... I'm getting too old to play rodeo clown...
Click to expand...

Doesn't EXT go back to Emulation 31 THREE times?
 
Faster horses said:
Oldtimer said:
EXT's grandsire Emulation 31 is DOC -21...
A bull I am questioning some first calf heifers on now is OCC Magnitude who's mgs is EXT... His docility has dropped to -9 and a couple of granddaughter heifers are pretty high headed and might not make the cut- altho their sire was plumb quiet... Nice looking heifers- but if I see anything more, they will be hitting the road... I'll be offering LCP a good deal on some heifers! :wink:
Nothing wild or mean stays around here either... I'm getting too old to play rodeo clown...
Click to expand...

Doesn't EXT go back to Emulation 31 THREE times?
Click to expand...

at least twice
 
When I said there are better options Cider Ridge was one of the bulls I was talking about. The docility epd is not the end all be all of determining disposition. Game Day gets a bad rap on that and they are very manageable cattle that are not aggressive. Aggressive cattle get people hurt and cause the rest of the herd to become less manageable.

FWIW: most aggressive females I have ever been around were sired by BF Rainman. a Select Sires bull of the past. I don't think he had any Ext in him. So yes other bloodlines can be problematic
 
I've been following along on this subject just to see what the replies would be. We, like a lot of you, used EXT himself years ago with a lot of the same results as the rest of you, especially mothers beating up their calves. But we bought our first Sinclair bull in 2005, and have bought quite a few since then. We have had really good results when we've used these bulls. Hardly no disposition problems, or no more than any other cattle we've been using, and females with real good production, and excellent fertility on nothing but grass and hay diets. I'm interested to see who WB and Justin think are better maternal options out there, because if they can beat these Sinclair cows we've raised I'd sure like to know who they are. I think the bulls at Sinclair's with their line breeding are the most consistent sires available in the breed today. Our cowherd is mainly Rito and Band influenced and are fairly stout made and the Emulation blood lines have been just what our cattle needed.
 
river rat said:
I've been following along on this subject just to see what the replies would be. We, like a lot of you, used EXT himself years ago with a lot of the same results as the rest of you, especially mothers beating up their calves. But we bought our first Sinclair bull in 2005, and have bought quite a few since then. We have had really good results when we've used these bulls. Hardly no disposition problems, or no more than any other cattle we've been using, and females with real good production, and excellent fertility on nothing but grass and hay diets. I'm interested to see who WB and Justin think are better maternal options out there, because if they can beat these Sinclair cows we've raised I'd sure like to know who they are. I think the bulls at Sinclair's with their line breeding are the most consistent sires available in the breed today. Our cowherd is mainly Rito and Band influenced and are fairly stout made and the Emulation blood lines have been just what our cattle needed.
Click to expand...

if you are happy with what you have, that's all that matters. :-)
 
Thanks for your input river rat. I don't discount others' experiences, but I had wondered if 25 years later they had been able to breed away from some of the issues mentioned. I don't need EXT up close to make me interested in a bull, but I am looking for a consistent pedigree, top and bottom. Their catalog is online now, and I was disappointed they chose not to list inbreeding coefficients this year.
 
I agree with Justin if you are happy with what you have that is all that matters.


I will stick to my guns but let me preface that by saying disposition is different in matters of importance to everyone. I don't want to go back to where we were 10 years ago. We had some bad temperament issues. My experiences with Ext are not that different than most other people and to be fair to anyone who uses Sinclair genetics they have more than just emulation breeding. So I don't have any doubt that they have some quiet cattle in their offering that would be an improvement for most anyone. The Ext thing is a bit of a crapshoot and I lost and moved on.
 
I think Justin and WB misunderstood my response. I am happy with our Sinclair heifers, but I'm in no way totally satisfied with anything we've got. I was serious, if there are better all around angus bulls out there, with the consistency and maternal qualities that Sinclair's have, I would really like to know which ones you think they are. I believe if you aren't constantly trying to make them better you just as well quit this business. I guess if my cattle achieved a 100% preg rate, weaned calves at 60% of their body weight, and could do that on prarie grass and very little hay, I'd probably be satisfied then. Until then I value all the opinions of other people that are working hard in this business.
 
I will be glad to tell you what is working here. I guess my plan is for slow multigenerational improvement. Not looking to hit any homeruns but just consistent improvement in all traits, I think I have found a couple of seedstock sources that fit this criteria but bulls from these outfits are not always affordable.

Disposition is a major criteria for us as we are multi-generational operation that is not willing to sacrifice our health of our loved ones for the beasts that we care for. Besides it just a whole lot easier this way.

Sitz Alliance 6595 worked well here in total I think we used 6 sons. Progeny could use tad more heel depth and muscle expression but the females are wonderful mothers that take care of their calves and very good to work around. Fleshing ability was an improvement for us fertility is ok but could use some improvement. The bulls were cow breeding machines and they held up really good that way.

GDAR Game Day has worked well here back on the Alliance females. We currently have 4 sons of his in the battery. My oldest daughters will be 3 this Spring so still have a little ways to go to prove longevity to me. The bulls we have are good breeders in the pasture daughters are motherly without any aggression so far.

I currently have a son of Connealy Front Page that is a three year old that I have high hopes for he is out of a 13 year old cow and he looks to be a bull that you would want every calf to be a heifer. His maternal great grandma is a Rito 054 daughter. Plans are to collect him this Spring and AI some to him as well as use him naturally. With out a doubt the soundest footed Angus I have ever seen at least this age of his life. I might add he is as quiet as you need any bull to be.

My dad owns a Greatgrandson of Sitz Rainmaker 6169 that we think will continue our progress. He is only two so no calves yet but he is a bit of a linebred bull that traces 3 times to rainmaker 380. Again superior disposition yet at this stage he is very sound footed.

Hopefully my illusionist stage of breeding cattle is behind me but I know there will always be challenges and surprises along the way. But as a fellow cattleman that I trust told me "Breeding cattle is a marathon not a sprint".
I would be curious to know Riverrat what are some of your recent successes. I try to keep my eyes open for anything that might improve our herd.
 
Anybody know if the sale will be on TV? We can't find it on dish channels 230, 231 or 232? :???:

Found it 230 1pm-4pm
 
WB said:
I will be glad to tell you what is working here. I guess my plan is for slow multigenerational improvement. Not looking to hit any homeruns but just consistent improvement in all traits, I think I have found a couple of seedstock sources that fit this criteria but bulls from these outfits are not always affordable.

Disposition is a major criteria for us as we are multi-generational operation that is not willing to sacrifice our health of our loved ones for the beasts that we care for. Besides it just a whole lot easier this way.

Sitz Alliance 6595 worked well here in total I think we used 6 sons. Progeny could use tad more heel depth and muscle expression but the females are wonderful mothers that take care of their calves and very good to work around. Fleshing ability was an improvement for us fertility is ok but could use some improvement. The bulls were cow breeding machines and they held up really good that way.

GDAR Game Day has worked well here back on the Alliance females. We currently have 4 sons of his in the battery. My oldest daughters will be 3 this Spring so still have a little ways to go to prove longevity to me. The bulls we have are good breeders in the pasture daughters are motherly without any aggression so far.

I currently have a son of Connealy Front Page that is a three year old that I have high hopes for he is out of a 13 year old cow and he looks to be a bull that you would want every calf to be a heifer. His maternal great grandma is a Rito 054 daughter. Plans are to collect him this Spring and AI some to him as well as use him naturally. With out a doubt the soundest footed Angus I have ever seen at least this age of his life. I might add he is as quiet as you need any bull to be.

My dad owns a Greatgrandson of Sitz Rainmaker 6169 that we think will continue our progress. He is only two so no calves yet but he is a bit of a linebred bull that traces 3 times to rainmaker 380. Again superior disposition yet at this stage he is very sound footed.

Hopefully my illusionist stage of breeding cattle is behind me but I know there will always be challenges and surprises along the way. But as a fellow cattleman that I trust told me "Breeding cattle is a marathon not a sprint".
I would be curious to know Riverrat what are some of your recent successes. I try to keep my eyes open for anything that might improve our herd.
Click to expand...

Did you mean GDAR Rainmaker 340?
I got a line on a Rainmaker 340 grandson. He was just 12 months old and didn't test, Not by much so hoping it's just a maturity issue. :?
 
Big brother, and nephew made it out and bought 4 bulls. Two for heifers that we'll AI some to. Lot 109 and Lot 151. Then bought a couple we'll use somewhere, just not sure where yet. Lot 44 and lot 163. Sale was up a little from last year, tried to buy #5 but finished second at 11,500 but we know the guy real well that got him so were going to get some semen and A.I. cows to him. Hope they all work!!!
 
Thanx for report hopefully LCP got the ones he wanted. The moisture situation this year has improved a lot of sales this season so I was not surprised they were higher priced.
 
I got a few bulls bought as well. 3 XXP sons (21, 238, 239) and a 5522 XP son (34). I had lot 5 on the top of my list too, but that's more than I spend on bulls. I also had lots 151 and 152 on my list...should have bid a little on the 152 bull but $5000 is the upper end of my price range and that's what the final bid was. I averaged about $4200 on them.

Overall I was impressed with the bulls. Each sire group was penned together, and everything sold in catalog order by sire group. I like that, because it shows me the consistency of each sire group. And they were quite consistent, at least by my standards. I also liked that the bulls weren't up to their bellies in straw...makes looking at their feet a tad difficult.
 
Those are certainly reasonable prices. Please keep us updated how they turn out as I would like to know your satisfaction level of the resulting progeny. Hopefully all goes well.
 

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