Something to Smoke in Your Pipe

[mytfarms]

Just for kicks and giggles and grins and all that fun stuff, I wanted to throw this out there. Now I think the show cattle deal has been circulated enough times on here that you're all aware it's simply a part of the cattle industry. However, I just wanted to do some though provoking by putting this little idea out there. I enjoy showing cattle and plan to continue to do so through 4-H. But after that, do people go a little too far by sticking with the industry for the rest of their life? I know particularly at the NWSS folks bring cattle there to sell bulls, heifers, and frozen genetics. But as a rancher, is one really interested in buying a bull that has hair, a great fitting job, and is fat? I mean, it's quite a mix of art and science to feed one right, get them haired up, and have them clipped and fit to the hilt for a show. Not to mention, you have to have a good one from the get go in order to make them a "great" one at the show. But a common saying in show steer circles is that champions aren't born; they're made in the barn. So from the angle of the producer, are you going to invest time and money in the cattle to get them looking good for a show because you are going to realize that much more of a profit? Ranchers, are you going to spend the extra money because the potential of that bull/heifer has been exhibited? Or are you instead going to market an animal that is "real world" and hence better fits the needs of a commercial cattleman? I've seen cattle marketed both ways, and likewise seen both options work. Just interesting to have some input thrown in.
MYT

 

[Northern Rancher]

If I go to Agribition or Denver it's just to visit-I'm in no way smart enough to see through it all.

 

[mytfarms]

And I think that is one of the big benefits of these shows. I have yet to miss Denver and I enjoy seeing my friends and meeting new folks every year. Personally, I just enjoy the big crews of folks making everything happen before cattle go into the show ring. It is truly amazing that quality that gets exhibited at a national show.

 

[balestabber]

i think showing cattle is just what it says,'showing'.
i enjoy going to the shows.
i've noticed the difference between the farmer,rancher and cowboy.
i've noticed the difference between shiney boots and those with holes.
i had a friend that the family had showed cattle for generations and will probably continue.
i have witnessed what you smoke in your pipe, will determine your profit and future.
just some of my thoughts,

 

[leanin' H]

Show cattle definately have a place. I grew up showing steers and I hope my kids will want to through 4H programs and FFA. It helps a kid learn about handling cattle, pressure points, feeding programs, animal health and the benefits of putting in the work. It also teaches kids about politics, and clicks and bigger checkbooks and last names. What doesnt work with show cattle in my world is how pampered they are. They are treated way beyond the way a rancher would treat a pen of fat calves. So they wouldnt work out in the real world for a commercial cattleman/woman. Atleast for me. Just like overly fat bulls, I wouldnt use them to cover cows on the desert. As a magnified example of a breed that trys for perfection in the ring they are just fine. (Perfection according to one judge, i might add) But since I cant run a herd of cattle like a show steer/heifer/bull/cow, my interest stops at the edge of the ring.

 

[per]

To me showing cattle is an agricultural based hobby like tractor pulling. Loosely based on agriculture but takes on a life of its own. You can pull in the antique class or the fuel dragster class. It really has nothing to do with the real world except they use different models of tractors and varying degrees of modification. Whether horse power or genetics they are fun and attract folks that might actually make their living in the real world of ranching or make their living in the hyped world of showing and genetics. I am not against showing, in fact I enjoy the show, but am just calling it the way I see it.

 

[gizmom]

My boys grew up showing steers, it was fun for them and I have to admit I loved it myself. They learned alot about how to feed a calf and the responsibility of taking care of thier animal. They also learned to keep records which has helped them as adults. So I am a fan of youth shows. I enjoy going to the big shows but sure wouldn't want to do it myself. I admire the work and effort that goes into getting a calf ready for a show I just don't have the time or the will to do it myself.

Gizmom
http://www.gizmoangus.com

 

[Ben H]

Wow Per, that was a hell of a good way of putting it. I grew up showing cattle, but knowing what I know now and being on the commercial side of things, I don't have much interest in buying cattle from someone who "shows." The one thing I disagree with your comparison per, is that many who show call themselves "seedstock producers." The way I see it now, they are only seedstock for other seedstock producers. As a commercial herd, I need to find cattle that are going to perform in my system, so I need cattle raised in a similar environment, not adapting the environment to fit the cattle.

 

[canadian angus]

Been there but no more. Buy animals that can be slaughtered and use them for breeding, not here. Steers is one thing, but heavy feed, good clippers, lots of glue and don't forget to walk them real slow.

Our Purebreds are raised with the commercial cattle, and treated the same way. Bought a really good bull few years back, been shown in the Fall, done very well. Think twelve and a half for him.

Time for him to work, semen was iffy, no it is getting better, no it wasn't, Seven percent when we got him home. His replacement was a two year old that had been treated the same. Apparently this bull did it to the fellow that bought him the year before. He paid nineteen thousand for him. You had to get the bull up to greet a cow. Told the chap that if one of our commercial customers had bought him, he would have beat us home.

The structure can be there but the fat and fancy show cattle are to inefficent.

Show me the heifers that are fitted for show as cows in three years, how is their feet, do they milk like they should, and are they just flushed because of a ribbon, or do they actually raise calves without the creep feeder?

Sorry if I offended anyone, but this is how I see it.

CA

 

[mytfarms]

I find it incredibly interesting that when I mention show, people are automatically thinking of the club calves. Cattle bred to grow hair, bred to be glued and pampered, bred to eat high quality feed, and lots of it. Per, that is the best way of putting the show industry that I have ever heard. Although I was more referring to regular purebreds that get fed and pampered to get ready to win the carload Denver show, versus a junior heifer that's been at a professional's home all winter and is fit to the 9's. Interesting commentary thus far.

 

[leanin' H]

I find it incredibly interesting that when I mention show, people are automatically thinking of the club calves. Cattle bred to grow hair, bred to be glued and pampered, bred to eat high quality feed, and lots of it. Per, that is the best way of putting the show industry that I have ever heard. Although I was more referring to regular purebreds that get fed and pampered to get ready to win the carload Denver show, versus a junior heifer that's been at a professional's home all winter and is fit to the 9's. Interesting commentary thus far.

Well what is going to win a show? A home raised calf with a little fittin' job or a club calf with $100 dollars worth of hoof black and 16 guys with hair blowers and clippers? :???: Show cattle equal pampered to me, regardless of whether they are club calves or yearling bulls. If you'll buy the grand champion angus bull at the NWSS in a couple months, I will run him on the desert next summer and we can see how he does! :wink: Now I realize some folks do take cattle to Denver and also produce excellent bulls for the commercial cattleman. Gib Yardley from here in Utah has done exactly that, winning multiple pen of three's at Denver over the years. But it's apples and oranges to me. The prize winners are catered to the show/seedstock side and the rest of us buy the bulls that will stay in good flesh while covering cows all summer across the mountain, breed lots of cows, throw calves that mash down the scale and make cattle buyers giggle. All that hoof black wears off pretty quick in our rocks! :wink:

 

[gcreekrch]

I find it incredibly interesting that when I mention show, people are automatically thinking of the club calves. Cattle bred to grow hair, bred to be glued and pampered, bred to eat high quality feed, and lots of it. Per, that is the best way of putting the show industry that I have ever heard. Although I was more referring to regular purebreds that get fed and pampered to get ready to win the carload Denver show, versus a junior heifer that's been at a professional's home all winter and is fit to the 9's. Interesting commentary thus far.

Well what is going to win a show? A home raised calf with a little fittin' job or a club calf with $100 dollars worth of hoof black and 16 guys with hair blowers and clippers? :???: Show cattle equal pampered to me, regardless of whether they are club calves or yearling bulls. If you'll buy the grand champion angus bull at the NWSS in a couple months, I will run him on the desert next summer and we can see how he does! :wink: Now I realize some folks do take cattle to Denver and also produce excellent bulls for the commercial cattleman. Gib Yardley from here in Utah has done exactly that, winning multiple pen of three's at Denver over the years. But it's apples and oranges to me. The prize winners are catered to the show/seedstock side and the rest of us buy the bulls that will stay in good flesh while covering cows all summer across the mountain, breed lots of cows, throw calves that mash down the scale and make cattle buyers giggle. All that hoof black wears off pretty quick in our rocks! :wink:

Kinda like lipstick, nail polish and fancy hairdo's in the hayfield. :wink:

 

[mytfarms]

Hey 'H, who peed in your cheerios? :wink: Well I sort of meant to stir the pot, but then again I am well aware that the hoof paint and glued legs aren't part of your desert scenario. I wasn't so much commenting on who wins shows. $50,000 calves, big last names, and, as you mentioned, a 16 fitter entourage follow the fat steer champion at Denver, Ft. Worth, NAILE, etc. I was more focusing on how the show ring is being used to market cattle. And, as you stated quite obviously, they simply don't turn your crank in a commercial setting. In fact, I believe that is a resounding answer throughout these replies. Just thought it would be interesting to get opinions. Now, I am bound to ask, is it a completely different deal when you have bulls in feedlot, knock of the wild hairs, shave the head and tail, and maybe even blow the dirt off before a sale? I am well aware we're not running them through the wash rack every day or fitting, painting, and detail clipping these cattle, but how different is it? I know many cattle are marketed for their ability to perform in a feedlot situation, which is how the vast majority of commercial calves are sold. But are we not exhibiting a bull's (heifer's, steer's, etc.) full potential by showing them? Have we made the feedlot/rail/mother cow/show ring champion the ends to which different cattle are marketed? Again, different strokes for different folks, but I am enjoying this breaking down of the cattle industry.

 

[the_jersey_lilly_2000]

I find it incredibly interesting that when I mention show, people are automatically thinking of the club calves. Cattle bred to grow hair, bred to be glued and pampered, bred to eat high quality feed, and lots of it. Per, that is the best way of putting the show industry that I have ever heard. Although I was more referring to regular purebreds that get fed and pampered to get ready to win the carload Denver show, versus a junior heifer that's been at a professional's home all winter and is fit to the 9's. Interesting commentary thus far.

Well what is going to win a show? A home raised calf with a little fittin' job or a club calf with $100 dollars worth of hoof black and 16 guys with hair blowers and clippers? :???: Show cattle equal pampered to me, regardless of whether they are club calves or yearling bulls. If you'll buy the grand champion angus bull at the NWSS in a couple months, I will run him on the desert next summer and we can see how he does! :wink: Now I realize some folks do take cattle to Denver and also produce excellent bulls for the commercial cattleman. Gib Yardley from here in Utah has done exactly that, winning multiple pen of three's at Denver over the years. But it's apples and oranges to me. The prize winners are catered to the show/seedstock side and the rest of us buy the bulls that will stay in good flesh while covering cows all summer across the mountain, breed lots of cows, throw calves that mash down the scale and make cattle buyers giggle. All that hoof black wears off pretty quick in our rocks! :wink:

Kinda like lipstick, nail polish and fancy hairdo's in the hayfield. :wink:

In other words...lipstick is gonna git wiped off on your shirt sleeve and hope that comes out in the wash......nail polish won't be pretty and shiny when the days work is done.....and the fancy hairdo is gonna wilt with the weather.......

 

[leanin' H]

Hey 'H, who peed in your cheerios? :wink: Well I sort of meant to stir the pot, but then again I am well aware that the hoof paint and glued legs aren't part of your desert scenario. I wasn't so much commenting on who wins shows. $50,000 calves, big last names, and, as you mentioned, a 16 fitter entourage follow the fat steer champion at Denver, Ft. Worth, NAILE, etc. I was more focusing on how the show ring is being used to market cattle. And, as you stated quite obviously, they simply don't turn your crank in a commercial setting. In fact, I believe that is a resounding answer throughout these replies. Just thought it would be interesting to get opinions. Now, I am bound to ask, is it a completely different deal when you have bulls in feedlot, knock of the wild hairs, shave the head and tail, and maybe even blow the dirt off before a sale? I am well aware we're not running them through the wash rack every day or fitting, painting, and detail clipping these cattle, but how different is it? I know many cattle are marketed for their ability to perform in a feedlot situation, which is how the vast majority of commercial calves are sold. But are we not exhibiting a bull's (heifer's, steer's, etc.) full potential by showing them? Have we made the feedlot/rail/mother cow/show ring champion the ends to which different cattle are marketed? Again, different strokes for different folks, but I am enjoying this breaking down of the cattle industry.

No harm done. :wink: I understand selling bulls that are covered in manure and skinny wouldnt be very profitable. But I have little use for overfat bulls from the feedlot that melt like a popsickle come the 1st of July. I look for structure and feet and muscling and disposition and calving ease and even look a little at epd's. I dont need fancy trim jobs or proper ring presentation to find a great bull. But that's just me. To each his own, right! So are you gonna buy me a bull at NWSS or what? :wink: :lol:

 

[gcreekrch]

Well what is going to win a show? A home raised calf with a little fittin' job or a club calf with $100 dollars worth of hoof black and 16 guys with hair blowers and clippers? :???: Show cattle equal pampered to me, regardless of whether they are club calves or yearling bulls. If you'll buy the grand champion angus bull at the NWSS in a couple months, I will run him on the desert next summer and we can see how he does! :wink: Now I realize some folks do take cattle to Denver and also produce excellent bulls for the commercial cattleman. Gib Yardley from here in Utah has done exactly that, winning multiple pen of three's at Denver over the years. But it's apples and oranges to me. The prize winners are catered to the show/seedstock side and the rest of us buy the bulls that will stay in good flesh while covering cows all summer across the mountain, breed lots of cows, throw calves that mash down the scale and make cattle buyers giggle. All that hoof black wears off pretty quick in our rocks! :wink:

Kinda like lipstick, nail polish and fancy hairdo's in the hayfield. :wink:

In other words...lipstick is gonna git wiped off on your shirt sleeve and hope that comes out in the wash......nail polish won't be pretty and shiny when the days work is done.....and the fancy hairdo is gonna wilt with the weather.......

You win first prize Lilly. :wink:

 

[mytfarms]

Gcreek, MYT will keep this information in mind with college around the corner. :lol: You know 'H, I'll put it in my pipe and smoke it a while. I'm guessing you probably wouldn't be really hot on a Shorthorn bull, now would ya? Humm...... I know some lowline people that will be up there. Boy, you talk about easy doing!!

 

[gcreekrch]

MYT, I personally don't have a problem with bulls being fed hard enough to show their potential, FOR A SHORT TIME!!!!

I also don't have much use for the show ring, it is kind of like lipstick and nail-polish. True character is revealed when the shine disappears and too many times we are disappointed by the end result.

Having said that, I also believe in living and letting live. If your goal is to be a show jockey for a time or career, go for it.
Stay honest, if a man's word is no good, he's not much of a man. :wink:

Don't expect too many of us old, hard-bitten ranchers to ooh and aww over your show string unless it can produce more than ribbons though.

 

[MO_cows]

My 2 cents is that showing cattle is a victim of its own success. Back in the day, you fed up and fluffed up your best stock and took them to town.

But there is always somebody who will go to the next level to win. So as the years go by the preparations get more and more elaborate and even creates a market for cattle bred strictly for showing. To the point that people are putting calves in big coolers to put more hair on them, injecting air or foreign substances under the skin to fix things they can't sculpt over with hair and so on. DNA tesing even required in some shows because there is enough money in some of those champion sales that people will cheat.

I think it has just gone too far but I sure don't have the answer how to get it back to where it should be.

 

[mytfarms]

Gcreek, I for sure understand your position. I didn't really want to take my little herd of good pasture proven cows and try to jump to the other end of the spectrum by putting clubbies on them. So, I grabbed me a couple shorties. Only get to be young once, right? My goal is certainly NOT to be a show jockey. Not that I haven't enjoyed all the showing and all of the neat little legal tricks, but my aspirations are more towards producing cattle that don't need to be run through a show barn, or even a feed yard, to prove that they're worth their salt. I know back in the day, dad got a little show heifer at stock show that produced in our herd for many years. Of course, that was still back in the time that was more like what MO Cows described. And personally, I like to think shows like Denver are still that way, where the best stock gets brought to town. However, we've placed so much emphasis on those purple ribbons that other aspects of production have taken second fiddle. But, everyone has different ideals and needs and I sure enjoy the ability to be involved in all of it. Fun discussion.