South Dakota antlerless deer program

[Liberty Belle]

Sorry about giving credit to someone else, but I'm sure tickled it made you feel good anyway.

I really can't tell you what the lease rates are since we don't have any public land leases, but I'm sure there are a few ranchers on here that can tell you.

We used to lease some state land until we got tired of sitting on that time bomb. We dug deep and payed way too much money for it, but we don't have to worry about losing the grazing we needed after the string of dry years we've had.

I can't tell you about federal land, but all hunters are free to hunt state land whether you have cows grazing on it or not and I think federal land is treated the same.

Our kids rodeo and one year our son's palomino calf roping horse and our daughter's white yearling gelding were both shot during hunting season on our state land. That kinda took the fun out of the sport for us.

 

[Happy go lucky]

LB federal and state lands are multi use areas! Why do you think every tax payer in the US should pay for grasslands and BLM ground and then not get to have access to that land?What about that poor couple from cleveland? If you could lease and deny access then wouldn't that just be another state/federal farm program? Which you dislike? The people who sign these contracts are well aware of what is in them.

 

[Liberty Belle]

Happy, your reading comprehension skills are horrendous! Did you make it through grade school? Where did you get the idea that I think anyone should be banned from public land?

QUESTION asked a question and I answered it. He wanted to know if hunting was allowed on leased US public land while cattle were grazing and the answer is yes. How did that evolve into me wanting to bar the public from land that belongs to them?

I could go into the long, involved story of how South Dakota's School and Public Lands came about, where the money for it goes, and how the leases work, but I'm pretty sure the whole concept would be over your head.

I happen to believe that NO ONE should be denied access to federal or state land for any reason. After all, it was bought with the taxpayer's money and if the public owns the land, they darn well should be able to use every inch of it for whatever and however they want. I'm willing to bet you would stop the owners of public land from doing a whole lot of things on the land they supposedly own, am I wrong?

 

[Happy go lucky]

I have zero problem with some of the land leased for grazing provided the land is well cared for and isn't a super dry year. What I don't like to see is public lands grazed down to billiard table condition and leaving no cover for the wildlife! Before you say that doesn't happen I have seen it with my own eyes.
If the ground can sustain use then use it in a manner that protects the land for all uses correct?

LB your quote is:I can't tell you about federal land, but all hunters are free to hunt state land whether you have cows grazing on it or not and I think federal land is treated the same.

Our kids rodeo and one year our son's palomino calf roping horse and our daughter's white yearling gelding were both shot during hunting season on our state land. That kinda took the fun out of the sport for us.

I would think during hunting seasons one would move the livestock to your private holdings to ensure things like you mentioned wouldn't happen? Also it is not your state land, it is owned by all citizens of your state. I think by your writings LB you have a problem with people hunting where you have livestock correct? Then move them onto private holdings until your hunting is done for the fall, when your going to have the most impact from hunters and those that help pay for this ground as well.

Did you report these shootings to your local law enforcement?



question wrote:LB that doesn't make alot of sense if you are leasing a piece of goverment land and use it for a late graze you should be able to say no hunting most hunters realize the problem when cattle are running on a pasture.

then LB wrote back:You're right, it doesn't make much sense, but that's the way it is down here. The guy who leases the pasture also fixes the fence, maintains the water tanks, and does any improvements needed. If someone else gets the lease, any improvements go with the new lease and the former leasee loses his investment.

I have hunted many areas with livestock present in the area with little ill effects, the issue is how big is the pasture and how many head and the age of that livestock, these all factor into this issue. If a large pasture I hunt in the area where the livestock isn't present, small pasture and alot of head I move onto a different land, the hunting is better anyway for the most part. Common sense is all it takes. The issue I see some trying to promote is making it illegal to hunt public ground with livestock present, then what is the number if each landowner puts 5-10 head into a pasture is that enough to stop public use? I could see this as a shell game by some, what say you LB?

I think my comprehension skills are just fine, it is just hard to stay in line with your all over the target replys. Good day LB

 

[Liberty Belle]

I have zero problem with some of the land leased for grazing provided the land is well cared for and isn't a super dry year. What I don't like to see is public lands grazed down to billiard table condition and leaving no cover for the wildlife! Before you say that doesn't happen I have seen it with my own eyes.
If the ground can sustain use then use it in a manner that protects the land for all uses correct?

I couldn't agree more. Most ranchers have zero tolerance for anyone who abuses the land.

I would think during hunting seasons one would move the livestock to your private holdings to ensure things like you mentioned wouldn't happen? Also it is not your state land, it is owned by all citizens of your state. I think by your writings LB you have a problem with people hunting where you have livestock correct? Then move them onto private holdings until your hunting is done for the fall, when your going to have the most impact from hunters and those that help pay for this ground as well.

Happy, I'm well aware that you are totally ignorant of South Dakota's School and Public Lands, so I'll try just this once to explain them to you. Pay attention!

When SD first became a state, the state government set aside two sections in every township as school land, sec. 16 and sec. 36. This land would be leased with the proceeds going to help fund the public schools. Since almost all the land east of the Missouri had already been settled by 1889 and west river SD was still open range, our side of the river was "blessed" with all the state land. The two sections I mentioned in every township, plus thousands of acres of what was labeled indemnity lands, which were east river's share, were set aside as school lands. Are you with me so far?

When my husband's great grandparents and my great grandparents settled on the ranches we live on now, they wound up with several of these "school sections" right in the middle of our pastures. At that time, there were no fences anywhere. When the pastures were finally fenced, the state land wasn't fenced separately because we already had it leased and used it the same as our private land that was intermingled with the state land. Moving our cattle off the leased land would be impossible unless we quit grazing all of our private land too. You really have no idea what rangeland is, do you?

Did you report these shootings to your local law enforcement?

Yes.

I have hunted many areas with livestock present in the area with little ill effects, the issue is how big is the pasture and how many head and the age of that livestock, these all factor into this issue.

The age of the livestock? Huh? A calf is less likely to get shot than a cow, is that what you're saying?

If a large pasture I hunt in the area where the livestock isn't present, small pasture and alot of head I move onto a different land, the hunting is better anyway for the most part. Common sense is all it takes. The issue I see some trying to promote is making it illegal to hunt public ground with livestock present, then what is the number if each landowner puts 5-10 head into a pasture is that enough to stop public use? I could see this as a shell game by some, what say you LB?

Happy, you have no idea how idiotic you sound to the ranchers reading this! School land is leased by the acre, not by the number of cattle you graze on it.

I think my comprehension skills are just fine, it is just hard to stay in line with your all over the target replys. Good day LB

Just try to stay focused Happy. Come on, you can do it!

 

[QUESTION]

I am glad i am up here and have the right to say no to hunting. There are many ethical respectful hunter but accidents do happen. Once the bullet leaves the barrel there is no way to guarentee where it will end up. What prompted my no hunting signs was a couple of things 1) seeing the wildlife lands having hunters doing deer drives every day and shooting everything that moved while standing post on my lease with cows still out there. The population on 650ac was down to a half dozen deer. 2) Seeing my lease being ripped up when it was driven across and the ruts were so deep they smashed a pickup on my baler the following summer not to mention numerous swather guards 3) finding a calf inured (broken leg) on pasture 4) gates being let open 5) finding a dump of deer - bucks with heads cut off and does and fawn unskinned with hinds and backstraps cut out the rest left for the coyotes. My response was to call the DNR office , post it and restrict hunting to people i know well who have written permission slips. The result is a elk herd, moose and a herd of WT deer yeilding trophy bucks including a 209NT WT i took last fall , and a 176Typ. WT i took the fall before and a buck i have seen a few times this fall already that is way bigger than both these two. No fences to fix, no spooked cattle, no injured cattle. But i still caught hunters dragging deer out of my lease without permission. After it all hashed out i won't see those guys this fall i know they were convicted and lost their hunting rights. It all comes down to repect. Personally if cattle are grazing or in a winter pasture i don't hunt there unless the cows are mine. As i said before once the bullet leaves the barrel you can't tell where it is going to go a ricochet can go anywhere.
As for my lease fees it works out to $6.00 per ac and taxes work out to about $3.50 per ac. last year. The stocking rate allowed is AUM's so it isn't over grazed. By the way the leases is 33 yr. term and i have the right to buy it at the end of the 1st lease or renew the lease for 33 yrs. it is only transferable to my childern. All improvement and non-removable structures are ammortized over 20 years if i cancell the lease the cost of improvements are payed back to me. But i have to submit receipts. So if i make improvements i get paid back for them. It just makes sense.
HGL people who don't know the difference between horses, cattle and deer should not be hunting in the first place. It violates a few hunter safety rules namely be sure of your target and beyond. As far as others telling me when to use a piece of land for pasture. I pay the lease fees so i dictate when it is grazed. Just like i can't tell people when to go to bed in their apartments they pay a lease for.

 

[Liberty Belle]

Q, your operation up there sounds much like ours here, except that we can't stop anyone from hunting on leased state land that is right in the middle of our pastures. Folks like ol' Happy here have no concept of what ranching is like. All they want is the "right" to use even private land like they own it instead of the guy who bought it or leases it, pays taxes on it (yes, we do pay property taxes on leased state land) and maintains it in good condition year around.

I'm just tickled Happy isn't from around here. We get enough slob hunters here the way it is. Just checked our west pasture yesterday and some idiot came through a gate from our neighbors, drove all over the pasture leaving tracks that will be there until next year, and left through the same gate so they could drive all over the neighbor's pasture. The neighbor didn't have any idea they were there and no one had gotten permission to hunt from either of us. And this happens every dang year...

 

[publichunter]

Chances are it was your neighbor or his nephew from town, instead of jumping to your first and natural conclusion a hunter.

If there is no legal way of getting to the land locked S&PL that are surronded by your private property no one hunts on it.

What is an AUM going for? Nationla grasslands $1.38 per AUM I know school land isnt much more, the point I am making is the price is cheap enough to put up with the public on their land for a month or so each year isnt it LB?

 

[Happy go lucky]

Thanks PH you made my point, landlocked ground can not be hunted in any state!!! If there is no public acess or if all landowners tell you No then you are tresspassing to get to it.
I also think this land should be fenced at a cost share of 50-50 as it divides land owned by different people. That could help out too.
LB your great at putting in words, calling me a slob hunter? Again laughable, my family has hunted many areas for many,many years and we are well liked and respected by those landowners, you have zero idea of where or how I conduct my hunting, all fair chase and I hunt for the enjoyment and not the kill.

To call me a slob hunter is a reckless statement based once again by the Ol' Lb with zero facts! Nothing new there is it?

There are maps available in many states showing public access be it state or federal grounds, and as long one abides by the rules and uses common sense hunting can take place with little impact. It has for decades LB!!!!!

 

[QUESTION]

LB it just doesn't make sense you pay to use the land ,you pay the taxes so you are entrusted to care for the land when using by the government so you should have the right to decide who hunts on it. As far as hunters having the right to hunt anywhere i see it all the time. Just because someone buys a liscence and pay taxes do not mean that person has the right to hunt on land controlled by someone else. But i do realize some think like that. I have seen hunters near my land for years and if they make the effort to get a hold of me, meet with me i have given written permission once the cattle are out, the slip i sign releases me from any liability as well as dates and times when hunting is permitted also the permission slip holds the hunter liable for damages done while they are hunting he must show me and write down his name, adress, drivers and hunting liscence #'s and liscence plate and type vehical and sign the slip as well there are duplicates i get a copy as does the hunter. I make it clear that i don't care who does the damage if they are hunting on a particular piece they are responsible for the damages. It has worked well i have even had a hunter who claimed to not doing damage come out and help repair fence and buy wire and fence posts he made the comment that if he catches the a$$ that did it he work make sure it didn't happen again. :wink: I think it all comes down to mutual repect and common curticy. As for the idiots crossing private land to get to goverment land post it no hunting . A good idea also is to make a gate so they have to go thru it and put a no hunting no trespassing sign beside it the put a trail cam behind it so when they drive thru it you get a picture of the violation. A trail cam can be bought fairly inexpensively and they work, it is funny to look at the pictures i have a few of hunters who didn't know they were on candid camera and they are embareassing pictures. It lets you now who and when people are hunting. It can be very suprizing.

 

[Liberty Belle]

publichunter: Chances are it was your neighbor or his nephew from town, instead of jumping to your first and natural conclusion a hunter.

No, it wasn't our neighbors and none of their relatives. They called the game warden too. Their pastures got the same abuse ours did, although they had a smaller amount of garbage dumped on them than we had blowing around on ours.

The neighbor's wife wanted me to join her on a trip to the nearest big town where we could spin our pickup tires across some of those well-manicured lawns, throw our beers cans in the bushes, and eat our picnic lunch under their picture window. I gotta admit, I was tempted to join her after she showed me the pile of garbage she'd picked up from the driveway to their house!

If there is no legal way of getting to the land locked S&PL that are surronded by your private property no one hunts on it.

Hunters are free to drive on section lines, even those that are undeveloped to cross private land to get to the state land, where they have to walk to hunt, so yes, there is a legal way of getting there and hunters do it every year.

You maybe missed where I said we bought our state land a few years ago? This was our private land and our neighbor's private land that these jerks were driving around on. Are you defending this behavior? Our local game warden sure wasn't impressed by the slobs!

Happy: Thanks PH you made my point, landlocked ground can not be hunted in any state!!! If there is no public acess or if all landowners tell you No then you are tresspassing to get to it.

Oh, but landlocked land CAN legally be hunted, at least in South Dakota, and I'm pretty sure the same thing applies to federal land.

I also think this land should be fenced at a cost share of 50-50 as it divides land owned by different people. That could help out too.

Really. Think that'll stop slob hunters? Sure didn't stop these. We have these things called gates that you can drive through to get between pastures! Or you can do as some slobs have done in the past, just cut the fence and drive over it!!!

LB your great at putting in words, calling me a slob hunter? Again laughable, my family has hunted many areas for many,many years and we are well liked and respected by those landowners, you have zero idea of where or how I conduct my hunting, all fair chase and I hunt for the enjoyment and not the kill.

To call me a slob hunter is a reckless statement based once again by the Ol' Lb with zero facts! Nothing new there is it?

I'm glad those landowners find you so warm and cuddly. After reading months worth of your derogatory comments about landowners, I just have a little trouble sharing their opinion.

There are maps available in many states showing public access be it state or federal grounds, and as long one abides by the rules and uses common sense hunting can take place with little impact. It has for decades LB!!!!!

Well, duh! GF&P prints maps out every year, although they are hardly ever accurate. It's too bad common sense and common courtesy are so rare.

 

[Happy go lucky]

Lb quote: I'm glad those landowners find you so warm and cuddly. After reading months worth of your derogatory comments about landowners, I just have a little trouble sharing their opinion.

Show the quotes LB!

 

[publichunter]

[LB]Well, duh! GF&P prints maps out every year, although they are hardly ever accurate. It's too bad common sense and common courtesy are so rare.[/quote]

I think courtesy and common sense goes for both sides. I have seen public land posted by some landowners in your neck of the woods, the courtesy could be extended by both sides.

 

[Southdakotahunter]

Its too bad slobs abuse your and your neighbors property. Please dont call them hunters because they are nothing near it. They may have been hunting, but were not hunters. Slobs yes. No one here has said its ok to go on private land without permission. Please show everyone where anyone has ever said that.......

If i was a betting man, my bet says its a couple high school kids, drinking a little beer......raising a little hell........that did that crap.

I would be mad as hell if you or anyone dumped garbage or whatever in my pasture/front yard and you should be also, but dont bunch them in as hunters. Thats like saying ranchers that overgraze their pastures and and starve their cattle are ranchers. Im sure you you would agree they are 2 different bunches that give the others bad names.

 

[Liberty Belle]

I'll take your bet. These pastures are over forty miles from the nearest town and out in the middle of nowhere. Beer drinking teens don't need to drive that far to imbibe and they couldn't find these pastures if they wanted to.

I do agree that these slobs were just that, slobs, who happened to be hunting. Most of the hunters we've had down through the years were responsible hunters and those that abused their privileges never hunted here again.

Hunters are not all alike, any more than all ranchers are alike, but as my neighbor said, there seem to be more slobs than good hunters anymore. The slobs think they are doing us a favor by coming out here to shoot a deer or antelope and act like they are being abused if they are told they can't drive their vehicles all over our pastures trying to find that big buck.

This neighbor is not part of the lockout, but from now on the only hunters they will allow are locals and relatives. Can't say I blame them.

 

[Southdakotahunter]

cant say i blame them either........Its too bad it ruined it for everyone. Seems like the bad ones are the only ones people remember.

I will tell ya this. I hunt private land west river. I hunt private land east river. My east river is about as far east and north you can get. If there is one thing that pisses me off more than someone who dont want to get out of the car and walk, i dont know what it is. In the far east of the state, there is a road around every square mile. Used to be i would get out and hunt a shelter belt or slough and others would post around me waiting for me to kick something out to them. Not any more. I go as far away from that as possible and the slobs cant follow.

Son and i have 4 tags west and 4 tags east. Gonna fill our doe tags for sure......probably with 3 of the 4. Depending on the last day, maybe even 4 doe. Cant eat the horns.......we do try to shoot 1 trophy if possible, but if it dont work, it dont work. We took 7 doe last year, 1 nice buck.

 

[Liberty Belle]

Southdakotahunter: Son and i have 4 tags west and 4 tags east. Gonna fill our doe tags for sure......probably with 3 of the 4. Depending on the last day, maybe even 4 doe. Cant eat the horns.......we do try to shoot 1 trophy if possible, but if it dont work, it dont work. We took 7 doe last year, 1 nice buck.

I appreciate you taking the does. You guys are my kind of hunters and if we ever get our property rights issue taken care of with GF&P so we can afford to allow hunting again, give me a call.