Testing bulls

[George]

I have never tested a bull before turn out in my life. My daughter-in-law's father ( Larry ) has a degree in animal husbandry from Purdue and we went together on some bulls this year and he insisted we test them.

I like buying about 500# bulls out of known parents and this is what we did ( best cows in his herd and AI ed to a fancy bull ) I brought the bulls to my place to over winter and I halter broke them - - - a common practice for me.

When we brought them in they were acting nuts as I have several cows back in heat already the next farm south. I will not turn in a bull till early June.

Larry and the vet thought I was crazy but I told them as I had halter broke them I just needed to get to them with a broomstick with a hook for their halters and they would correct their behavior - - - laughs all around. I put lead ropes on them and they followed like little puppy dogs!

The older bull is the same but he did not have a halter on - - - throw a loop over his head and one jerk and he then remembered his manners. I do not have any cows halter broke but feel for safety the bulls need it - - - do any of you do that?

Then for the big question - - - I asked the Vet what percentage of bulls have a problem in our region? 10% - - - 25% or what - - - he said of the ones he test normally 3% to 5% fail - - - at $100.00@ it is not the end of the world but I feel this does not give me piece of mind as the bull could go out and break his penis the first day. I just wonder if I should go back to my old ways and just watch to see if the cows get settled.

If I was in a colder region where they could get frozen testicles it might be different but in my climate I feel it is almost a waste of money to test!

Now I want your opinions

 

[Mike]

If you have a bank note to pay with calf receipts, it's a good idea to test.

It's not uncommon for a purebred bull breeder to have 10% of his bulls with reproductive problems/abnormalities (culls).

 

[Mike]

If you have a bank note to pay with calf receipts, it's a good idea to test.

It's not uncommon for a purebred bull breeder to have 10% of his bulls with reproductive problems/abnormalities (culls).

I have an older lady who buys a bull or two every year. All she wants is to see that the bull's penis is long enough to make a cow bow up in her back when he breeds her.

 

[cowman52]

I have been selling bulls for along time and I understand your thinking. Most of the problems i have came across has been due to the feeding program and not so much anything else. Small pens, hot feed, trying to get them fat too quick, not enough exercise. In the past 10 years, not one bull has failed out of 400 or so. Bulls than run in groups, run in pens next to cycling cows seem to get everything flowing so to speak. At one time I worked several bulls sales as far as testing, clipping, and such. Problems came in tight pen space, young bulls not active enough. A failed test usually corrected them selves after a month on grass in a large pasture.
If you watch close enough, 3 weeks late isn't bad or just put a couple of cows in before you turn bulls out 2 calves 3 weeks early ain't a bad deal.

 

[leanin' H]

We have to have all bulls tested in Utah for Trich every year so it just makes sense to also do a semen test. A perfect example is a bull I bought as a yearling last year. He was negative on Trich and passed his semen test with flying colors last spring. Covered our cows fine last year. This spring he was again negative on Trich but failed the semen test. Not enough volume and way too many mis-shaped sperm. We retested him a month later and he had gotten worse! Vet figured it was damage from our winter and we had to sell him at a terminal market. He was not too fat and had plenty of exercise. Simply did not have bullets in his gun. I'd much rather pay $121 for a test than have a bull that wont settle cows. By testing early I had options to replace him I wouldn't of had if I discovered that cows were still cycling after I turned him out and then had to scramble. And I would test for Trich anyway just for the peace of mind. After seeing wrecks caused by Trich in neighboring states and a few ranches here, it is money well spent. My 2 cents and worth whatever ya think. Good luck.

On a side note, even a halter broke bull can seriously hurt ya if he rubs ya against a pickup truck or something else. Do as you will and enjoy life, but the best advice I have heard was to never trust a bull in the spring. 2200 lbs of romantic bull sometimes forget what they learned in the showring.

 

[George]

On a side note, even a halter broke bull can seriously hurt ya if he rubs ya against a pickup truck or something else. Do as you will and enjoy life, but the best advice I have heard was to never trust a bull in the spring. 2200 lbs of romantic bull sometimes forget what they learned in the showring. [/quote]

I quite agree - - - you must respect them. I tell people not to be beside an animal like that as if they swing their head for a fly they could hurt or kill you will no ill intent - - - but teaching them to respect a halter as a calf sure can make life easier later in life!

 

[GM888]

Have seen to many wrecks not to test. 1 bull out with a bunch of cows maybe poor fertility gets a cow or 2 in calf and you think he is working. Multiple bulls in the field and the boss bull is no good. I have had prime age bulls fail the semen test from degeneration , frost, infection, etc. I cant afford not to test. I find buying yearling bulls that have been pushed for a sale have a high chance of problems. My own bulls that are mostly raised on grass last till I'm tired of them

 

[RSL]

Interesting topic. We test all of our bulls, the ones we sell and the ones we use ourselves. Age has a big impact on semen tests, but also mineral programs, excercise, diet, genetics, weather, etc. I would be kind of nervous turning out bulls that were not tested, especially if a dominant sire is shooting blanks in a larger group of cows. A dominant bull can stop a lot of other bulls from breeding. We try to cover our bases by using multiple sires (even on the purebreds) and then DNA test the calves. It doesn't take long to miss a bunch of cows if a bull gets hurt on the day or two you aren't there to check. Also, if a bull has footrot, etc. and you treat it, sometimes a strong antibiotic can mess up their sperm counts for up to 60 days, so treating a hurt bull can lead to bigger problems, even if he physically appears to be getting better.
Around here you can see the effect of a big storm at bull sales that are about 3 weeks after the storm, lots of bulls will have a deferred semen test results.

 

[rancherfred]

I wouldn't turn a bull out without a test. $100/test may seem like you are wasting your money, but how much are the calves worth that you won't have because the bull is either shooting blanks or has problems with quality? Penny wise and pound foolish in my mind. There is a good chance that I won't ever have a case of black leg on my place, I still vaccinate for it. There is a real good chance I will never have brucellosis (sp?) on my place as the state has been declared free, but I still vaccinate for it. The resulting carnage from not vaccinating is too great to risk not doing it. The same is true with testing bulls in my judgement.

 

[Brad S]

I like Fred's way of looking at insurance or mike sez test if you rely on income. If you have enough bulls on 400 cows, but one is shooting blanks or whatever, you're likely still pretty good. 1 outta 2 or 3 bulls will cut your throat. Breed back shots and babying bulls could reduce the need for a bse, but ya gotta sleep at night too.


My grampa insisted bulls turn and walk away, my dad, now same for my kids. I can see times it would be nice to have a bull broke to lead, but Id never trust one. I want respect from bulls - a little fear is ok. We don't handle bulls without a dog. A couple months ago a dog saved a kid's life at Torrington.

 

[Brad S]

Fred, I know a vet that saw b leg in a herd. Vet sed people too complacent, and b leg kills you

 

[Silver]

In my mind a bull isn't halter broke if it doesn't have a ring in it's nose. Even then, I'm not interested in being that close quarters with them . Too many good cattlemen been killed by friendly bulls.
And I too like Fred's way of looking at things with regards to the testing.

 

[4Diamond]

Agree with the last two posters. Always frustrates me when I see a magazine cover or article with someone hugging a bull. I think this gives the wrong message by giving the appearance that bulls are teddy bears. We tested bulls about 20 days ago and I was quite frank with my help I reminded them these bulls can kill you and not think twice about it, no pet bulls on this operation.

 

[Big Muddy rancher]

Testing the herd bulls is the most stressful day of the year for me.
For quite awhile now it's been just my daughter and the vet with me and we have good facilities so we don't have much for problems but I worry about getting in the pen and moving them and having the bull getting away from a fight running over someone or pushed into.

 

[Soapweed]

Testing the herd bulls is the most stressful day of the year for me.
For quite awhile now it's been just my daughter and the vet with me and we have good facilities so we don't have much for problems but I worry about getting in the pen and moving them and having the bull getting away from a fight running over someone or pushed into.

Dr. Butler and his helper hard at work

Using the Kosmo Kid's new korral

The Kosmo Kid supervising

The ones that are done

We were fortunate that the weather behaved beautifully on the day we tested bulls this year. It was actually rather relaxing, even though it could be compared to watching paint dry. :cboy:

I'm kind of glad we tested bulls this year, because 15% of them flunked. Good thing they were inexpensive (sounds better than "cheap") bulls to start with.

 

[RSL]

Nice pics Soap. It looks like a nice lazy day...
I have always disliked halter broke bulls and lead broke bulls even more. I think the reduction in their flight zone can create some quite dangerous situations and bulls that are broke to lead have the whole flight zone thing ass backwards, following instead of moving away. This is a bad thing if you are trying to move a "normal" herd of cows.
I agree with the whole cuddling bulls or cows thing. Cattle are pretty big, and even an accidental flip of the head can be pretty devastating. I know some folks that have been hospitalized, paralyzed and worse. Attention is always a good thing and it is actually the only reason I ever recall yelling or being yelled at in a corral (mostly due to my lack of attention in my younger days). I believe the "WAKE UP!!!" call is universal in some form or another in potentially dangerous ranching situations.

 

[GM888]

Testing the herd bulls is the most stressful day of the year for me.
For quite awhile now it's been just my daughter and the vet with me and we have good facilities so we don't have much for problems but I worry about getting in the pen and moving them and having the bull getting away from a fight running over someone or pushed into.

I agree BM
. My facilities are not the best for bulls. Try to wait till cows are vaccinated because I usually have repairs.

 

[Faster horses]

I like all the advice. It all is right on, in my book.

Little story I will share. When we went to SW Montana in 1975, we took some 2 year-old horned Hereford bulls with us for breeding. That place didn't have any corrals when we bought it. Just a small pen. One of the bulls got hoof rot and we got him in the pen and then thought, "now what?" Mr. FH roped the bull, intending to dally around a post. When he roped the bull, the bull stepped up and LED to the post. That was quite a surprise.

But we would never trust a bull.

 

[gcreekrch]

Test every bull, every year.

Preg test every cow, every year.

Vaccinate for everything that is a threat in your area.

Never miss a chance to cull a bad one.

Good facilities make handling cattle much easier.

Good judgement comes from experience, and a lot of that comes from bad judgement.

 

[GM888]

Good judgement comes from experience, and a lot of that comes from bad judgement

Yep