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Tony Dean apologizes?

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How do you know what illegal activity is committed behind locked gates – personal experience? And did you get caught? Do you allow cops to come into your house unannounced to see what crimes they might catch you committing, and if not, why not?

LB as usual your paranoia takes over, "open Fields" has nothing to do with Law Enforcement coming into your home, it only has to do with your land, and it isnt just GF&P that can use open fields it is ANY Law enforcement that has propable cause to do so. When you get a license from GF&P any person can ask to see it and you cant refuse. IT is license compliance checks that give the GF&P game warden the authority to come onto your land not into your house.

I dont beleive for a second that there is 4 million acres locked up, expecially when GF&P continues to sign more walk-in areas in your neighborhood.
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P Joe said:
Your right hunters have lost the most out of this, but tell me again why you are making this problem the hunters problem?? They don't have any more power over GF&P than landowners do.

But according to you and your side kicks, it cost so much to keep the states critters feed, so it is costing the landowners too, and according to some of your "locked out ranchers" it must cost $1500/deer/year to keep them feed :D
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You've got that wrong – it wasn't the landowners who made this the hunter's problem. By not demanding that landowners who were hosting your free hunting be treated fairly by GF&P, the hunting groups shot themselves in the butt.

If you want to see this go back to the way things were before GF&P screwed everything up for hunters by trampling on landowners, you can step up to the plate and demand that GF&P change. Like I said, hunters are the only folks in this fight with anything to lose and you'll keep on losing until you and your hunting groups put pressure on GF&P to do the right thing.

Southdakotahunter said:
I dont think its a pay to hunt thing entirely, but some how some think "fine..if the gfp is gonna be that way, its gonna be pay to hunt now"

They get things mixed up, such as entering a farm house/buildings without a warrent with checking someone hunting on the land for a license. Some think they should have to wait on the road to check for licenses. I know i have never been checked for a license on private land, but im sure it happens. There are even others, that allow coyote hunting on their land, yet say they are in the lockout. somehow, coyote hunting is not hunting to them, or the gfp wouldnt check them for a license or something, dont know the real reasoning behind that. I hear protecting my herd and such as to the reasoning, like the deer and goats that are eating up all this feed for their animals, is not some sort of a threat to their ranch?
Then, they try to make laws that say the wildlife accidents caused by god should come with a $200 payment by the gfp, as long as the driver didnt initiate the accident, like the deer is gonna tell on em?? They testify at hearings in favor of the law they want to pass, they have locked out to hunting, yet complain there are too many deer. Its nuts! After all is said and done, they are not even responsible if one of their cattle get onto the hwy and cause a wreck, but for heaven sake, lets make the gfp pay for a deer wreck........gosh dang game and fish department anyway...who do they think they are??

They says the lockout has been a great success, yet i know of ranchers who are no longer in the lockout anymore because the antelope herds are getting out of hand. I wonder why?

So successful, their website has been taken down
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If a landowner wants to charge hunters to hunt on his own land to recover a little of the money he's lost to wildlife damage, that's his right. But they will still have to put up with abuse from GF&P if they allow hunting at all. Getting paid for it might make the abuse a little easier to take though.

I hate to bust your bubble, but the lockout has certainly been a success out here. The website has been taken down because there was no longer any reason for it. I suppose depriving you of a forum for your landowner hating comments upset you when you had to move your nasty comments to this board?

I think this is wonderful - you can display your arrogance and ignorance and it doesn't cost us a dime to maintain the website!! We do appreciate all you do to illustrate to the ranchers on here the "sportsman" mind-set landowners have to deal with in South Dakota.

Sweet!! :D

publichunter said:
LB as usual your paranoia takes over, "open Fields" has nothing to do with Law Enforcement coming into your home, it only has to do with your land, and it isnt just GF&P that can use open fields it is ANY Law enforcement that has propable cause to do so. When you get a license from GF&P any person can ask to see it and you cant refuse. IT is license compliance checks that give the GF&P game warden the authority to come onto your land not into your house.

I dont beleive for a second that there is 4 million acres locked up, expecially when GF&P continues to sign more walk-in areas in your neighborhood.
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You're free to believe whatever makes you feel good. Have at it!!

I'm going to type really slow so you can understand because, as many times as we've been through this, you just don't seem to be able to grasp what the Open Fields Doctrine does.

I've discussed this issue with several county sheriffs and our elected law enforcement officers are NOT allowed to go driving across private land looking for illegal activity. Real law enforcement must have reasonable suspicion of illegal activity, probable cause to believe a crime has been committed, or actually see a crime in progress before they can trespass.

GF&P claims the "right" to trespass just because they might find someone hunting in the wrong unit, not wearing blaze orange or something and they also claim they don't need either probable cause or reasonable suspicion.

The deer police claim they don't even need to see a hunter walking across through the pasture, wearing orange and packing a gun during hunting season, to drive onto private property without the knowledge or permission of the landowner to snoop around. And you wonder why we're mad? :mad:

Hey, maybe you're starting to understand!! It is the HUNTER who has the license and must show it to anyone who asks. When we realized that GF&P demanded to trespass on our property to make sure hunters were not breaking the law, we locked out hunters to protect ourselves from GF&P's criminal activity.

You don't like that? That's your problem, not ours.
 
LB as always the black helicopters are waiting.....
If YOU (now I will type slowly for you also too follow along) and your lock-out friends beleives so strongly that "open Fields" is illegal for compliance checks by GF&P take it to court and see?
To date so far the Supreme Court upholds the concept of "open Fields" test it and see if you are so sure.
 
publichunter said:
LB as always the black helicopters are waiting.....
If YOU (now I will type slowly for you also too follow along) and your lock-out friends beleives so strongly that "open Fields" is illegal for compliance checks by GF&P take it to court and see?
To date so far the Supreme Court upholds the concept of "open Fields" test it and see if you are so sure.
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If we catch GF&P on our land without permission, our sheriff is not only willing but VERY eager to arrest them for trespassing and then we are going to court again. Won't that be fun?

Former GF&P Sec. Cooper didn't even get a slap on the wrist when he helped Sen. Daschle's aide Eric Washburn break state law. That made it pretty plain that the attorney general and GF&P have no respect for the law. Doesn't that bother you?

On the other hand, the GF&P pilot that started this whole fiasco served hard time and is now on probation. Since he is a convicted felon, he is no longer able posses a firearm so GF&P had to let him go. Evidently, he wasn't as important as Cooper and Washburn.

GF&P is a lot more careful than they used to be, but they show no sign of wamting to get along with landowners and there will be no locked-out land opened to you guys until things change.

Do you see those black helicopters often?
 
LB no matter what the GF&P would do for you , you will never be happyuntil you control the deer license.

There is no pleaseing some of you
 
Game wardens come and go here also. I agree with the logic of we have nothing to hide so why it is such a concern if they come by. If the game warden jobs are to control poaching and make people comply with rules and regulations set forth for everyone to follow thenif nothing wrong or illeagle is going one why the push to keep them out? :???:
 
What would one think if the sherrif had a Game Officer help him in an investigation.

It has happened numerous times they have used them in order to beat the system and not have to get a search warrant. If the LEO has a legit cause then he can get a warrant as he is obligated to do instead of misusing the GO and the laws to justify his wants. That is the problem I have with the GO, they are misued by some LEO because they have more power than the LEO.
 
Private landowners have willingly fed and housed the wildlife/public trust for GF&P's business enterprise.

Landowners have paid for their use of the public land, hunters use for nothing.

Some hunters want, and GF&P would like to demand, free recreational access if landowners use the "stack yard program" (fencing the wildlife out of the landowners feed they have brought in and paid for and hay they have put up and fenced for their livestock.)

Some feel private property should be subjected to search and seizure without reasonable suspicion or probable cause if free access is allowed.

For what? A few less deer or elk, added risk of fire or livestock shot accidentally, last and probably most important, added liability!!!!!

Why would anyone risk loosing their property to the added liability of allowing free access for a few less deer?

Why would anyone subject themselves to being considered a criminal without probable cause or reasonable suspicion by allowing access "free access"?


I still have the right to protect my property— I think that one is still in the constitution.

I have no contract with GF&P. The hunter has the contract. The hunter gives up some of his rights when he buys/signs a license, but he has a choice.

If some hunters feel strongly about GF&P's use of the open fields doctrine— hunt the public land.

I feel the majority of individuals are good law abiding people and most will not do wrong or succumb to criminal activity if not watched. I also don't feel those in power are better people or any more trustworthy.

I feel I have the right to know who is on my land and why.

Some one said 1000 dollars was outrageous for access. Well I wouldn't charge any less than 3,000 dollars, for the added liability of allowing access. The hunt would be free but responsibility would be expensive but you have a choice, hunt public land.

One of you said it was the hunters that kept the GF&P's abuse of the open field's doctrine alive—you are right— you own that decision and will have to live with it. When you talk about this becoming a rich man's sport/recreation, thank the guy in the mirror and GF&P.

One stated the Supreme Court findings on the open fields and I will say again read the cases and show me one that has no reasonable suspicion or probable cause or a crime in plain view or under some contract with GF&P or fish and wildlife before they entered.

A John P. sent me three cases, two of which I already had, but failed to leave a return address or phone number. He evidently didn't feel confident enough to put his full name or address. I suppose GF&P's use of the open fields will be tested someday.

Most if not all have been tied to land one time or another. Some decided to stay on the land. I don't think those who stayed should have to be a free playground because your family decided to leave—in the same token I don't expect the people in the city to provide free recreation for the people on the land and they don't.

I shouldn't be penalized for staying and you shouldn't be mad or jealous because you or your ancestors decided to go.

I am not willing to allow (free) access or any access for a recreation that has more risks than benefits and considers me a criminal with out reason.

We were told the only way to prohibit GF&P's interpretation/use of the open fields doctrine was not to allow access.

I have nothing to hide but I wonder what GF&P has to hide by not asking permission.


Susan Clarkson
 
SJ after your remarks how can you in good faith and the godly clean living you profess, how do you ever let Mert serve on the Commission making rules for the heathens that make up the GF&P? and serving the sinning public??
 
publichunter--
SJ after your remarks how can you in good faith and the godly clean living you profess, how do you ever let Mert serve on the Commission making rules for the heathens that make up the GF&P? and serving the sinning public??
Click to expand...

When Mert and I decided to spend our life together, I don't remember any vow saying my way or the highway.

Common sense would tell most you cannot make anyone do anything they are not willing to do.

Those who make up GF&P are not heathens, in fact I haven't met one I don't like.

I don't remember professing anything.

I evidently angered you.

Oh by the way I didn't catch your name.

Susan Clarkson
 
CattleArmy said:
Game wardens come and go here also. I agree with the logic of we have nothing to hide so why it is such a concern if they come by. If the game warden jobs are to control poaching and make people comply with rules and regulations set forth for everyone to follow thenif nothing wrong or illeagle is going one why the push to keep them out? :???:
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If you have no problem with game wardens trespassing on you, that's fine with us. I don't suppose you mind them walking into your house unannounced either? After all, if you're not hiding anything, what could be wrong with letting them peek into your bedrooms and bathrooms?

Don't you wonder why those game wardens don't just stop at the house and ask before they trespass? That's only common courtesy. I don't know how you do things in your area, but here before one of our neighbors would even dream of going into a some one else's pasture they do the neighborly thing and let them know what the deal is. Is it too much to ask government agents to do the same?


Larrry said:
What would one think if the sherrif had a Game Officer help him in an investigation.

It has happened numerous times they have used them in order to beat the system and not have to get a search warrant. If the LEO has a legit cause then he can get a warrant as he is obligated to do instead of misusing the GO and the laws to justify his wants. That is the problem I have with the GO, they are misued by some LEO because they have more power than the LEO.
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Exactly. Legitimate law enforcement officers must have probable cause, reasonable suspicion to think a crime has been committed, or must see illegal activity before they can come onto private property. The last I knew, hunting is not an illegal activity! The deer police claim they can trespass whenever and wherever they want, which is the reason for the lockout.
 
publichunter said:
SJ after your remarks how can you in good faith and the godly clean living you profess, how do you ever let Mert serve on the Commission making rules for the heathens that make up the GF&P? and serving the sinning public??
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Wow, publichunter – we could tell you were scum before, but this post shows just what a spineless, cowardly, idiotic, anonymous creep you really are!! Pretty sick stuff from a sniveling coward who doesn't even have guts enough to sign his own name.

You obviously don't know the Clarkson's. These two have worked for the "public good" all of their adult lives and they both come from very civic minded families that have been pillars of the ranching community out here since before South Dakota was a state.

You are absolutely despicable!!! Why don't you just disappear from this board? It's obvious brainless slob hunters like you have no place on a respectable ranching website.
 
Wow LB and SJ looks and sounds like your panties are in a bunch......
It always boils down to if someone hits either of your nerves you both retaliate to name calling and such.
Just shows how narrow minded you two are.
Perhaps I am just much smarter than you two by not signing my name?
"couple of narrow minded bitties
 
I don't know how I can call you a name I don't know.

I don't know that I would call you a name; you evidently live in fear of.

My panties are literally in a bunch once in a while, probably yours are too once in a while, but mine are no fault of yours.

Your claim of me; "godly clean living sinner" seems like an oxymoron.

I hope you feel better publichunter.

I don't know what I said to set you off like that but if you have calmed down, I would be more than happy to listen.
 
LB & SJ, both of you claim the lock out a success, why??? what have you changed??? Nothing, and don't tell me "we have prevented GF&P from trampling on us, blah blah blah crap"

The simple fact is if you ever allow hunting again, you still have to follow the same rules.

AND YES you have made this the hunters problem. You claim you have 4 million acres lockout and you can't get nothing changed with GF&P. How the HELL are the hunters suppose to change anything when they have nothing to hold over GF&P???????????????????????

Even if we did refuse to buy licenses, GF&P would just sell them to out-of-staters who would pay big $$ for access...

AND who does that benefit????
AND who is the one that always seems to say that they can stand a little trampling on for some $$$
YOU tell me what way it seems to be heading!!
 
Texan said:
pubichunter said:
Perhaps I am just much smarter than you two...
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The preponderance of the evidence suggests otherwise.
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Thanks Texan, you're a gentleman and a scholar!! :tiphat:

P Joe said:
LB & SJ, both of you claim the lock out a success, why??? what have you changed??? Nothing, and don't tell me "we have prevented GF&P from trampling on us, blah blah blah crap"

The simple fact is if you ever allow hunting again, you still have to follow the same rules.

AND YES you have made this the hunters problem. You claim you have 4 million acres lockout and you can't get nothing changed with GF&P. How the HELL are the hunters suppose to change anything when they have nothing to hold over GF&P???????????????????????

Even if we did refuse to buy licenses, GF&P would just sell them to out-of-staters who would pay big $$ for access...

AND who does that benefit????
AND who is the one that always seems to say that they can stand a little trampling on for some $$$
YOU tell me what way it seems to be heading!!
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Are you asking what has changed for those of us in the lockout? Well, hunting season is a lot quieter around here and game wardens aren't trespassing on us like they did when we still allowed hunting. That might not seem so great to you, but frankly, we're pretty pleased with it.

As for "following the rules" as you put it, we have always obeyed the laws and made sure our hunters did too. Our problems stemmed from GF&P personnel who didn't and since we've locked our land to hunters we solved that problem. You can't say the lockout hasn't changed our lives for the better!

I agree that there are those folks who figure that they can take some abuse from GF&P and put up with hunters if the hunters are willing to make it worth their while monetarily. I'm guessing you don't think much of that idea, but like I said before, that problem was created by GF&P.

If you can't get your hunting groups to rally behind landowners to clean up GF&P, that's no concern of ours. Almost every hunting group that testified before committee on the Open Fields Doctrine sided with GF&P and that IS something hunters can do something about. The ball is in your court and the future of free hunting in South Dakota is up to you.
 
wow....i have missed out on some interesting reading!

I think everyone could step back the take a breath. LB.......your name calling reminds me of Yosemite Sam......HAHA

You keep compairing walking into your house with open fields. They are not the same thing. The gfp will not bust in your door to see your freezer without a warrent. Your home is not open fields.

Ask your sheriff what he would do if he sees a bunch of kids partying in a pasture. He can see they are drinking beer, but cant tell if they are underage or not. Maybe they are, maybe they are not. They may be breaking the law, but maybe not, he wont know until he checks them out. They have a couple campers and a few tents. It is about prom time. He dont know if they are underage or not. Does he go in or not? Does he contact you first? What if he cant get ahold of you? Or what if he isnt sure who owns the land as the owner lives in New York City. What if they were smoking a funny looking cig? Its not illegal to smoke cigs is it? As a law man, i cant tell if its tobacco or not. It just looks funny.

Do you suggest he sits on the hwy and waits for these folk to leave?

As a parent, i want it checked out. What if my daughter had something horrible done to her at that party, but the lawman didnt go in, and i find out later the cop sat on the highway waiting for people to leave for hours, yet, didnt go in. What would i say, as a parent about the situation? What would you say, as a parent about that situation? I dont feel they are any different. Do you?

I do hunt alot of public lands. Public lands hold alot of wildlife. Often times, its about the only places in an are that holds cover.

Im glad you all have decided on the lockout. Your lockout hasnt helped a thing, but if it makes you feel better, thats great. I dont mind if you dont allow hunting. What i do mind if you complain about the amount of animals in your area, such as what LB did in Pierre, yet didnt allow hunting. I also think your talking out of two sides of your mouth if you allow coyote hunting, but not the others. There is no difference.
 
Southdakotahunter
Ask your sheriff what he would do if he sees a bunch of kids partying in a pasture. He can see they are drinking beer, but cant tell if they are underage or not. Maybe they are, maybe they are not. They may be breaking the law, but maybe not, he wont know until he checks them out. They have a couple campers and a few tents. It is about prom time. He dont know if they are underage or not. Does he go in or not? Does he contact you first? What if he cant get ahold of you? Or what if he isnt sure who owns the land as the owner lives in New York City. What if they were smoking a funny looking cig? Its not illegal to smoke cigs is it? As a law man, i cant tell if its tobacco or not. It just looks funny.

Do you suggest he sits on the hwy and waits for these folk to leave?

As a parent, i want it checked out. What if my daughter had something horrible done to her at that party, but the lawman didnt go in, and i find out later the cop sat on the highway waiting for people to leave for hours, yet, didnt go in. What would i say, as a parent about the situation? What would you say, as a parent about that situation? I dont feel they are any different. Do you?
Click to expand...

I think you should ask your Sheriff. If you happened to have read the Rapid City Journal lately Larry Long gave a pretty good explanation of what you are talking about.
 
Southdakotahunter said:
wow....i have missed out on some interesting reading!

I think everyone could step back the take a breath. LB.......your name calling reminds me of Yosemite Sam......HAHA

You keep compairing walking into your house with open fields. They are not the same thing. The gfp will not bust in your door to see your freezer without a warrent. Your home is not open fields.

Ask your sheriff what he would do if he sees a bunch of kids partying in a pasture. He can see they are drinking beer, but cant tell if they are underage or not. Maybe they are, maybe they are not. They may be breaking the law, but maybe not, he wont know until he checks them out. They have a couple campers and a few tents. It is about prom time. He dont know if they are underage or not. Does he go in or not? Does he contact you first? What if he cant get ahold of you? Or what if he isnt sure who owns the land as the owner lives in New York City. What if they were smoking a funny looking cig? Its not illegal to smoke cigs is it? As a law man, i cant tell if its tobacco or not. It just looks funny.

Do you suggest he sits on the hwy and waits for these folk to leave?

As a parent, i want it checked out. What if my daughter had something horrible done to her at that party, but the lawman didnt go in, and i find out later the cop sat on the highway waiting for people to leave for hours, yet, didnt go in. What would i say, as a parent about the situation? What would you say, as a parent about that situation? I dont feel they are any different. Do you?

I do hunt alot of public lands. Public lands hold alot of wildlife. Often times, its about the only places in an are that holds cover.

Im glad you all have decided on the lockout. Your lockout hasnt helped a thing, but if it makes you feel better, thats great. I dont mind if you dont allow hunting. What i do mind if you complain about the amount of animals in your area, such as what LB did in Pierre, yet didnt allow hunting. I also think your talking out of two sides of your mouth if you allow coyote hunting, but not the others. There is no difference.
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Southdakotahunter- actually under the scenerio you put forward- in Montana- unless the law enforcement could directly see and get additional actual probable cause that laws were being violated ( underage, booze, drugs) they would not have a right to enter upon private property to check without owners consent and/or a search warrent (which would require probable cause showing evidence of crimes being committed).....

All Montana law enforcement lost its open fields exception to the law in a couple of state Supreme Court rulings (against the Fish and Game) several years ago after years of misuse/abuse by the the Fish and Game.....Now it takes a lot more investigation- and the addition of a Judges order to enable all L.E. to go on fishing expeditions....

But folks seem to approve of that- more than they did the usurping of their privacy rights....
 

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