Amo
Well-known member
Im looking at buying a Hereford bull. Have had several short visits with Ryan Topp. He called this afternoon, I was snoozing when he called so it took me a while to get the hard drive running. Im pretty sure I have the conversation correct though. Last time we visited we got side tracked on carcass info, IMF, etc.
So today I was going through my usual list of questions I like to ask. I asked him about their cow size. I have a pholisphy about cow size vs. efficiency. He said that they weigh all first calf heifers a month post weaning. They add 100 pounds to that animal and call that their mature weight instead of weighing every cow every year. Said that a bull calf has to wean off 52% & heifer 48%. Said it has effected their frame size. So that naturally led to the next question I asked "so it went down then"? He said no, it has actually went up! Now until about a year ago I really didn't know much about the operation. He stated the "rolling average" was 1300#. He did say that he was a firm believer in creep feed. That the guys who don't creep have to push the holy heck out of their bulls that they are pushed way to hard. Said that a vast majority of his bulls would have less than 2% back fat. Creep does effect the 50% weaning too. We did discuss feedlot stuff. He stated that his main focus was not premiums, but discounts. Feeding to big & getting to heavy of carcass etc. He stated that to get smaller framed cattle to finish, they get too heavy. Which a "mature" cow at 1300 is still a pretty moderate cow, but what impressed me the most was he said they were increasing frame while "obtaining" 50% of the cows weight. Which yes, he said thats the creiteria to make bull sale cut. If thats the cut, then he is accomplishing that while increasing frame. Guess I have always had the pholisphy that science says so, but I think we can find an outlier that is a bigger framed cow, but is efficient. From what I remember of the conversation, which I was pretty awake by then, he is confirming it.
Guess the point of the post beside the previous paragraph....how many of you guys have used their program, mostly the bulls? I aied to 719T. About all I know of the program. I was pretty impressed with the F1 calves. I used him on some Herefords, and was sadly disapointed. Small framed cows (under 1000# & yes they went across a scale) & was somewhat disapointed. Do his bulls hold up, produce like they should, are as efficient as he claims? Or is he more of a good sale pitch person like Kit Pharo? Im afraid his stuff is going to be out of my price range. I realize last year was last year. Upstream sale was a fair bit cheaper this year I think, but last year Topp had a 10K average. Is his quality as consistant from top to bottom or is there a spread? I like the buy back programs. When your running 175 head, its not a game changer for me though.
Just kinda looking for feedback on the program & thoughts in general about the weaning percentage and upping frame size.
So today I was going through my usual list of questions I like to ask. I asked him about their cow size. I have a pholisphy about cow size vs. efficiency. He said that they weigh all first calf heifers a month post weaning. They add 100 pounds to that animal and call that their mature weight instead of weighing every cow every year. Said that a bull calf has to wean off 52% & heifer 48%. Said it has effected their frame size. So that naturally led to the next question I asked "so it went down then"? He said no, it has actually went up! Now until about a year ago I really didn't know much about the operation. He stated the "rolling average" was 1300#. He did say that he was a firm believer in creep feed. That the guys who don't creep have to push the holy heck out of their bulls that they are pushed way to hard. Said that a vast majority of his bulls would have less than 2% back fat. Creep does effect the 50% weaning too. We did discuss feedlot stuff. He stated that his main focus was not premiums, but discounts. Feeding to big & getting to heavy of carcass etc. He stated that to get smaller framed cattle to finish, they get too heavy. Which a "mature" cow at 1300 is still a pretty moderate cow, but what impressed me the most was he said they were increasing frame while "obtaining" 50% of the cows weight. Which yes, he said thats the creiteria to make bull sale cut. If thats the cut, then he is accomplishing that while increasing frame. Guess I have always had the pholisphy that science says so, but I think we can find an outlier that is a bigger framed cow, but is efficient. From what I remember of the conversation, which I was pretty awake by then, he is confirming it.
Guess the point of the post beside the previous paragraph....how many of you guys have used their program, mostly the bulls? I aied to 719T. About all I know of the program. I was pretty impressed with the F1 calves. I used him on some Herefords, and was sadly disapointed. Small framed cows (under 1000# & yes they went across a scale) & was somewhat disapointed. Do his bulls hold up, produce like they should, are as efficient as he claims? Or is he more of a good sale pitch person like Kit Pharo? Im afraid his stuff is going to be out of my price range. I realize last year was last year. Upstream sale was a fair bit cheaper this year I think, but last year Topp had a 10K average. Is his quality as consistant from top to bottom or is there a spread? I like the buy back programs. When your running 175 head, its not a game changer for me though.
Just kinda looking for feedback on the program & thoughts in general about the weaning percentage and upping frame size.
I do like to use EPD's as I feel they have useful info. But I want to match the favorable EPD's with a bull that can travel, has good feet and structure and his own birth weight and YW isn't crazy high or low. I really like to have a look at his momma too if I can.