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Treated hay with anydrous ammonia

R

Red Robin

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 23, 2005
Messages
4,377
Location
8 mi S.E. of Harrison, Ar.
I had some junk hay which had been rained on 3 times with over an inch each time. I tarped it and applied 2500lbs of NH3 to 55 tons of hay. I havn't looked under the tarp yet but it feels softer to the touch. Has anyone used NH3 on hay ? The hay was 12%protein as fed but sure isn't very palletable before treatment. I hope to end up with a product they will eat. Anyone have any experience?
 
heard of guys doing this to wheat straw, but never hay. I will be very interested in how this turns out.
 
Curtis Shallert at Purdy Mo. has been putting NH3 on fescue (straw) after it's combined for over 20 years. I run a combine over mine and it's mostly fodder left. This year it was green but some years it's only straw like wheat straw. Anyway Curtis said that 2.5% of NH3 is the rate he applies at but he doesn't like to put more than 2500lbs under each stack because people over estimate the pounds of hay in a stack. I have some hay out of the same cutting that got wet just the same. I sent off samples of the treated and untreated. I didn't ask for a NPN anyalisis so I don't know the amount of protein increase but it raised the acid detergent fiber by 10% from 36 to 41%. I really don't care that much about the feed value increase although it'd be real nice. I am mainly interested in making it more palletable. It was real junk. Cows won't touch it untreated. Might not be any better this way, we'll see. Curtis said normally it'd raise the protein level 6 or 8 percent. By my paper sack math we put enough anhydrous under the tarp to increase it by 11% but I assume there's quite a loss to the ground since the stack is sitting on dirt.
 
Red Robin,
we used to treat alot of wheat straw with it when we could get wheat straw cheap and anhydrous was easy to get. There is a kitty litter plant that buys up all of the straw now and the meth dealers have made it so hard to get anhydrous that we have stopped doing it. My experience, you will not get that high of an increase in protein, 5 to 8 % but not over 10. It will make it palatible and softer. I did a field trail with MSU one year to demonstrate to other producers how it works and how to do it. We took core samples before and after and had all of them analysed at the Nutrition Center, even did in vitro digestibility on them. I have never done hay but your hay is really nothing but grass straw from the sound of it. When you go to feed it, set bales out of the tarp a day ahead of time and let them air out some. The cows will eat it better when they can eat on it and their eyes are not watering :wink:
 
sw said:
Red Robin,
we used to treat alot of wheat straw with it when we could get wheat straw cheap and anhydrous was easy to get. There is a kitty litter plant that buys up all of the straw now and the meth dealers have made it so hard to get anhydrous that we have stopped doing it. My experience, you will not get that high of an increase in protein, 5 to 8 % but not over 10. It will make it palatible and softer. I did a field trail with MSU one year to demonstrate to other producers how it works and how to do it. We took core samples before and after and had all of them analysed at the Nutrition Center, even did in vitro digestibility on them. I have never done hay but your hay is really nothing but grass straw from the sound of it. When you go to feed it, set bales out of the tarp a day ahead of time and let them air out some. The cows will eat it better when they can eat on it and their eyes are not watering :wink:
Click to expand...
Thanks sw. Do you have any input of palatability where the hay has been wet, wet, wet . It's worse than straw in my opinion. One other benifit to me is that the NH3 neutralizes the toxcisity of fescue hay. That would be a nice plus.
 
I know nothing about using anhydrous ammonia on either hay or straw, but if the hay is testng 12% protien, I think I would look for other ways to improve it's palitability. Just something for you fellows to think about.
 
Clarencen said:
I know nothing about using anhydrous ammonia on either hay or straw, but if the hay is testng 12% protien, I think I would look for other ways to improve it's palitability. Just something for you fellows to think about.
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I'm open to suggestions Clarence. Give me some ideas. I still have several tons I didn't treat along with several tons of good hay. All 12 % protein.
 
Red Robin said:
Clarencen said:
I know nothing about using anhydrous ammonia on either hay or straw, but if the hay is testng 12% protien, I think I would look for other ways to improve it's palitability. Just something for you fellows to think about.
Click to expand...
I'm open to suggestions Clarence. Give me some ideas. I still have several tons I didn't treat along with several tons of good hay. All 12 % protein.
Click to expand...

Grinding it and mixing with some of the better hay would help get them to eat it- and it should be good enough to get you thru the winter- without the cost of the anhydrous....

I've seen cows eat some terrible hay after it was ground and mixed with a little good stuff...
 
Oldtimer said:
Red Robin said:
Clarencen said:
I know nothing about using anhydrous ammonia on either hay or straw, but if the hay is testng 12% protien, I think I would look for other ways to improve it's palitability. Just something for you fellows to think about.
Click to expand...
I'm open to suggestions Clarence. Give me some ideas. I still have several tons I didn't treat along with several tons of good hay. All 12 % protein.
Click to expand...

Grinding it and mixing with some of the better hay would help get them to eat it- and it should be good enough to get you thru the winter- without the cost of the anhydrous....

I've seen cows eat some terrible hay after it was ground and mixed with a little good stuff...
Click to expand...
The cost of a grinder for one bad hay experience is prohibitive.
 
Red Robin said:
Oldtimer said:
Red Robin said:
I'm open to suggestions Clarence. Give me some ideas. I still have several tons I didn't treat along with several tons of good hay. All 12 % protein.
Click to expand...

Grinding it and mixing with some of the better hay would help get them to eat it- and it should be good enough to get you thru the winter- without the cost of the anhydrous....

I've seen cows eat some terrible hay after it was ground and mixed with a little good stuff...
Click to expand...
The cost of a grinder for one bad hay experience is prohibitive.
Click to expand...

Yep-your right- If you have a feeder truck or a loader tractor-- you could have one of those commercial grinders come in and grind it all up in one day for you-- then feed with the truck or the put out piles with the tractor....

I saw one fella that uses his manure spreader for feeding chopped hay- just unhooks the spreader and lets the chain feed it off the back...
 
Oldtimer said:
Red Robin said:
Oldtimer said:
Grinding it and mixing with some of the better hay would help get them to eat it- and it should be good enough to get you thru the winter- without the cost of the anhydrous....

I've seen cows eat some terrible hay after it was ground and mixed with a little good stuff...
Click to expand...
The cost of a grinder for one bad hay experience is prohibitive.
Click to expand...

Yep-your right- If you have a feeder truck or a loader tractor-- you could have one of those commercial grinders come in and grind it all up in one day for you-- then feed with the truck or the put out piles with the tractor....

I saw one fella that uses his manure spreader for feeding chopped hay- just unhooks the spreader and lets the chain feed it off the back...
Click to expand...
One of the neighbors used to have a big tub grinder but he sold it. There isn't any around for a long way.
 
Red Robin,
one other thing that I have seen used is putting bales on end and then putting some Loomix or Nutralix on the end of the bale so it soaks down through the bale. Cows will readily eat about anything that is soaked in lick. With the sugar beet factory nearby, I had a neighbor putting straight molasses on straw and poor quality hay. I tried to explain to him that he was defeating some of his purpose because adding sugar to poor forages decreases digestibility because the rumen microbes will become more of carbohydrate and sugar digesters instead of fiber digesters, so you have cows eating this low quality forage and the rumen microbes only adapted to readily available sugar. If you do try this, make sure that you use something with either urea, biuret or Stephens filtrate so that the forage digesters will stay active and you do not compact any cows. Feeding cows is feeding rumen microbes, you just have to convince the cow that she likes what you are putting in front of her so she can help you feed the microbes. Sometimes cows are not very scientific :roll:
 
sw said:
Red Robin,
one other thing that I have seen used is putting bales on end and then putting some Loomix or Nutralix on the end of the bale so it soaks down through the bale. Cows will readily eat about anything that is soaked in lick. With the sugar beet factory nearby, I had a neighbor putting straight molasses on straw and poor quality hay. I tried to explain to him that he was defeating some of his purpose because adding sugar to poor forages decreases digestibility because the rumen microbes will become more of carbohydrate and sugar digesters instead of fiber digesters, so you have cows eating this low quality forage and the rumen microbes only adapted to readily available sugar. If you do try this, make sure that you use something with either urea, biuret or Stephens filtrate so that the forage digesters will stay active and you do not compact any cows. Feeding cows is feeding rumen microbes, you just have to convince the cow that she likes what you are putting in front of her so she can help you feed the microbes. Sometimes cows are not very scientific :roll:
Click to expand...
I've never done it SW but a buddie did that for a couple years. He said it wasn't very even through the bales and made a mess where you treated them. He seemed to think the anhydrous would be easier and more cost effective but he's never treated hay with anhydrous.
 
I have treated thousands of big round bales with Loomix over the last 10 years. There is an art to it so it doesn't run on the ground, but adding Loomix, which has a patent on fiber digestion, will not only add to the protein content of the hay, but it will increase it's digestibility by up to 34%, not to mention the added vitamin and chelated mineral package it contains. I try to have the guys let me put a trough out instead of treating the bales, cause it's easier for me and a way better way to control costs, but I still treat bales every year, nonetheless.
 
loomixguy said:
I have treated thousands of big round bales with Loomix over the last 10 years. There is an art to it so it doesn't run on the ground, but adding Loomix, which has a patent on fiber digestion, will not only add to the protein content of the hay, but it will increase it's digestibility by up to 34%, not to mention the added vitamin and chelated mineral package it contains. I try to have the guys let me put a trough out instead of treating the bales, cause it's easier for me and a way better way to control costs, but I still treat bales every year, nonetheless.
Click to expand...

Can you kinda explain the process with some detail? It sounds like something I might be interested in. BTW will this treatment work with cornstalk bales??
 
Have you figured out the cost on all of this, RR? Either per bale or an estimate per ton? My first thoughts are kinda along the lines of what Clarence said - if I had some hay that tested 12%, I think my cows would have to learn to like it.
 

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