TTB/Lazy Ace/Golden Boy

[BRG]

If you didn't see this photo, this is a vc 105, licorice bred bull I raised. Very sound bull.

that is a nice looking bull. He looks pretty solid all the way around.
Golden boy has good feet and his progeny seem to be following his trend. We can tell you more when his daughters reach ten to twelve years old.
Proving cattle takes many years as you probably know. I will try and pm some pictures of daughters one of these days.

thanks for the reply brg. busy travel season for you?


have a good one

lazy ace

Ya it is and has been busy, but it better be as that pays the bills

 

[Grassfarmer]

How would you describe the udder quality and teat size on the daughters in production?

We are very pleased with udder structure. His daughters have level udders with great spacing. The teat size is small and functional. (There is some get along licorice way in the back). The udders remind me of some our oldest foundation cows when I was growing up.

If you are looking to add milk to your cattle he probably won't do that. We think his milk is about right for where we live. There are some good udders on the dam side of the pedigree with Logan 734b and Golden boy daughters are sure following that pattern.

If I can find some pictures of some Golden boy daughters I will get them to you later tonight.

have a good one

lazy ace

A weakness I have noticed with Red Angus cattle is poor feet. Especially the front. It seems that the problem as far as I can tell is in two areas. The inside wall of the front toes having to much curve (lobster claw), not parallel enough and on our ground sometimes the toes will end up crossing.
The second is a weakness in the front pasterns that put more weight on the heels and not enough on the toes so the toes don't wear properly.

When these two weaknesses are combined it doesn't take long before they are unsound.

This being said how would you evaluate the feet on the bull and on his daughters.

I have noticed quite a few front feet problems on the red Angus females that I've seen. Quite a few of them stemmed from the front feet pointing slightly out to the sides instead of straight ahead. I read somewhere that this went with narrow chested cattle and that was certainly the case with the ones I saw. I guess narrow chested is itself a by-product of failed selection for bigger ie taller cattle?

 

[Dylan Biggs]

I have noticed quite a few front feet problems on the red Angus females that I've seen. Quite a few of them stemmed from the front feet pointing slightly out to the sides instead of straight ahead. I read somewhere that this went with narrow chested cattle and that was certainly the case with the ones I saw. I guess narrow chested is itself a by-product of failed selection for bigger ie taller cattle?

In general I wouldn't say the front foot issue in Red Angus that I have observed over the years can be attributed to a narrow chest floor. If the chest is excessively narrow and the legs are not straight there by transferring uneven weight distribution to the feet eg more weight on the inside toes you will definitely have a problem. Most of the foot problems I have observed over the last 25 years evaluating foot and leg structure in Red Angus cattle is directly attributed to weakness in the pastern and hoof structure itself.

 

[red61]

I have noticed quite a few front feet problems on the red Angus females that I've seen. Quite a few of them stemmed from the front feet pointing slightly out to the sides instead of straight ahead. I read somewhere that this went with narrow chested cattle and that was certainly the case with the ones I saw. I guess narrow chested is itself a by-product of failed selection for bigger ie taller cattle?

In general I wouldn't say the front foot issue in Red Angus that I have observed over the years can be attributed to a narrow chest floor. If the chest is excessively narrow and the legs are not straight there by transferring uneven weight distribution to the feet eg more weight on the inside toes you will definitely have a problem. Most of the foot problems I have observed over the last 25 years evaluating foot and leg structure in Red Angus cattle is directly attributed to weakness in the pastern and hoof structure itself.

Are there certain bloodlines that you've seen this with? We have an Enterprise cow that has poorer feet quality, but hasn't passed anything along to her calves.

 

[rancherfred]

The problem with dealing with that foot issue is the time it takes to show up. We have our share of foot problems and we cull a handful of cows every year because they show up with long or curled toe nails. There are some lines that have demonstrated a tendency to have foot problems. In our herd nearly every one of our Heavenly sired cows ended up with bad feet. Unfortunately it wasn't for several years and other than the bad feet issue the cattle were outstanding. So we had quite a bit of that bloodline dispersed throughout the herd before we realized that we had a problem. I have heard of particular bulls more recently that tend to sire offspring with foot problems but we haven't seen any in our own herd out of them.

The one thing I wish I knew how to tell was if the long and curved toes are from a genetic problem, or if they are from foundering. We run all of our cattle on cornstalks all winter long and it would be nice to be able to tell what the cause is for the foot problem. If it is genetic you don't want to keep any of the progeny of the animal in question, but if it is foundering that caused it then purging bloodlines isn't so important.

 

[Northern Rancher]

I'm pretty sure Heavenly was homozygous for bad feet-alot of Red Angus originated from pretty hard country where they keep feet worn off-as they spread out some of the frailities became apparent. rancherfec I guess if all your animals have the same management and a few go ski whiff I'd probably lean to it being genetic. I'll be long dead and gone before the cattle get sound enough on my own place.

 

[Dylan Biggs]

The problem with dealing with that foot issue is the time it takes to show up. We have our share of foot problems and we cull a handful of cows every year because they show up with long or curled toe nails. There are some lines that have demonstrated a tendency to have foot problems. In our herd nearly every one of our Heavenly sired cows ended up with bad feet. Unfortunately it wasn't for several years and other than the bad feet issue the cattle were outstanding. So we had quite a bit of that bloodline dispersed throughout the herd before we realized that we had a problem. I have heard of particular bulls more recently that tend to sire offspring with foot problems but we haven't seen any in our own herd out of them.

The one thing I wish I knew how to tell was if the long and curved toes are from a genetic problem, or if they are from foundering. We run all of our cattle on cornstalks all winter long and it would be nice to be able to tell what the cause is for the foot problem. If it is genetic you don't want to keep any of the progeny of the animal in question, but if it is foundering that caused it then purging bloodlines isn't so important.

From our experience and many others I have spoken to you are certainly not the only one to experience this problem with Heavenly. He seems to have been very consistent at passing that trait on.

 

[AX-]

We have a LMB Golden Boy grand son and I'll say that he has the best feet of any bull we've used. Golden Boys have a lot of bone too compared to some Red Angus cattle.

 

[BRG]

I agree that with some lines it just showes up years later, but I have just recently seen yearling bulls that didn't look fleshy enough to be foundered, but yet they had foot issues. Their are certain lines that have to much set and they don't wear down, and then their is the curled toe issues. It gets a bit frustrating to me.

 

[Dylan Biggs]

I agree that with some lines it just showes up years later, but I have just recently seen yearling bulls that didn't look fleshy enough to be foundered, but yet they had foot issues. Their are certain lines that have to much set and they don't wear down, and then their is the curled toe issues. It gets a bit frustrating to me.

Amen :!:

 

[lightninboy]

I've got a two-and-a-half-year-old Black Angus bull with the inside halves of his front hooves curled outward. He got almost no exercise since breeding last summer. He got a fair amount of corn in the winter. He has pretty good flesh on him. I never had a foundering problem in the spring with a bull before. He seems to have gentled down nicely this spring and is now one of the gentlest bulls I've ever had. I doubt his front feet will affect his breeding this summer, but I suspect his hooves will never really get better and he ought to be sold in the fall if not sooner.

 

[lightninboy]

I just noticed I've got a nice two-year-old cow with front hooves the same way though not nearly as bad. She liked to pig out on corn too. Wonder if it is foundering or just normal.