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Tyson vs. Pickett and the Shell Game

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agman said:
Mike said:
Judge Strom's Instruction #6 to the Jury:

"During the testimony of Mr. Callicrate, I instructed you to disregard a portion of his testimony because I found it was not true. You should consider his testimony on other subjects with caution and weigh it with great care. You may disregard his testimony in whole or part, except insofar as it may have been corroborated by other credible evidence. Remember, that you, as jurors, are the sole judges of the truthfulness of the witnesses and the weight their testimony deserves."

This whole paragraph is a contradiction within itself, i.e. "HE" found it was not true, but the jury is the "SOLE" judge of truthfulness.

Mike you know better than to try an pull a fast one. The judge was very specific as to what the jury was to exclude as the judge discovered it to be untrue. The truthfulness of Mike's other comments were at the discretion of the jurors to decide. There is no contradiction at all-just an attempt by yourself to snow some unknowing reader.

That is an instruction to all juries about witness's- especially ones who's testimony can't be verified-- but in 99.9% of the trials whenever a Judge doesn't dismiss the case on motion before he sends it to the jury, the Jury verdict is left standing...This country was built on the Jury System- the fact that a Judge thought he knew better after a Jury of 12 people made their decision stinks to high heaven with the power of what Big Business is buying and influencing......Without a change in direction we could be saying "Heil Tyson"....

If the case was not made during trial- it should have never went to the Jury....Period.
 
Sandman: "Econ101, has the entertainment value of "debating" SH started to wear thin, yet? Afterwhile you'll just get tired of the his water torture methods and you'll give up."

If you can't contribute anything besides waving your packer blaming pom poms, go play in the street you circle fly. Absorbing an insult from you is not unlike being run over by a Tonka truck.


Econ. 101: " Perjury is about lying to a jury under oath. Did this happen and was it proven? Does presumption of innocence only pertain to packers? You seem to be doublespeaking here."


Here's Judge Strom's instructions to the jurors:


"During the testimony of Mike Callicrate, I instructed you to disregard a portion of his testimony because I found it was not true. You should consider his testimony on other subjects with caution and weigh it with great care. You may disregard his testimony in whole or in part, except insofar as it my have been corroborated by other credible evidence. Remember, that you, as jurors, are the sole judges of the truthfullness of the witnesses and the weight their testimony deserves."


Can it be any clearer for you?

You are right, perjury is lying to a jury under oath. That is exactly what Mike did.

That isn't the first time I have seen Mike Callicrate lie in public.

I have heard him state "fat cattle prices have nothing to do with supply and demand that the price is totally arbitrary".

Would you like to try defending that Econ. 101?

How about ibp having contractual arrangements with the other major packers? Interestingly, I have asked the heads of cattle procurement for Tyson's competition and they said the same thing Bob Peterson said, "it was a damn lie".

He even claimed on the Derry Brownfield show that ibp dismissed jurors simply because they were black. That's the type of person Mike Callicrate is.


Econ. 101: "I did not go to the trial but your arguments can be refuted by anyone who is willing to think about it and give you the time of day."

More cheap talk!

You haven't refuted a damn thing yet with facts to the contrary. All you can do is make your feeble attempt to discredit. More of the same from the "factually defenseless" packer blamers.


Econ. 101: "If you are the person who cattlemen have to talk to in order to sell their fat cattle then I you might be able to make a prima facia case that it is more efficient to have some pricing mechanism that is not based on haggling with you."

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

Oh gawd, you really crack me up with your humor!

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz!



OCM,

Since you seem to think you know so much about the case, why don't you present the evidence that supported the market manipulation conspiracy theory?

Nobody else has!

I'm tired of dancing with Econ. and ankle biter.

I'm assuming the Plaintiffs thought they had something of relevance.

What did the plaintiffs present to support their market manipulation allegation??? You have to have some idea?

You guys fed on the "preferential treatment" aspect of the case like sharks in a feeding frenzy I would have to assume you had something of relevance regarding a PSA violation of market manipulation????

What say you?

Bet you wish you would have went after the "preferential treatment" allegation instead huh?

Oh, regarding Mr. Perjury's hypocrisy, what could be more blatant than to claim packers and retailers were making $400 per head off the backs of America's cattlemen then to pay a top premium of $50 per head for fat cattle for your "Born, Raised, and Processed in the U.S." branded beef program, charge the consumer 10% to 20% more for the beef, and claim "consumer apathy" as the reason for your lack of profitability???

Does hypocrisy run any deeper than that considering Mike's support of "Mandatory" Born, Raised and Processed labeling and $400 per head profits????

If you guys are ever going to peg something on the evil successful packers, you are going to have to find more credible witnesses.

By all means, keep handing Mike Callicrate the microphone.


~SH~
 
OT,

The fact is, a jury really has to screw up the verdict to be overturned by a Judge and the 11th Circuit.

That was the case in this case.

The plaintiffs never had a market manipulation case.

They had a better "preferential treatment" (Waaaaaahhh) case.


~SH~
 
~SH~ said:
OT,

The fact is, a jury really has to screw up the verdict to be overturned by a Judge and the 11th Circuit.

That was the case in this case.

The plaintiffs never had a market manipulation case.

They had a better "preferential treatment" (Waaaaaahhh) case.


~SH~

This has become more of a court manipulation case. The 11th Circuit has lost a lot of prestiege with this decision.

We have all lost in this regard.
 
SH (SH-- Hawker-
How about ibp having contractual arrangements with the other major packers? Interestingly, I have asked the heads of cattle procurement for Tyson's competition and they said the same thing Bob Peterson said, "it was a damn lie".

He even claimed on the Derry Brownfield show that ibp dismissed jurors simply because they were black. That's the type of person Mike Callicrate is.

"Is tobacco addictive?"

The London case was about a black man being discriminated against and then Fielddale Farms (one of the companies in the Broiler Group lobbying) taking it out on a witness at the trial who was a grower with them. This was the case that was cited in the Pickett decision by the judges of the 11th District!!

The truth is starting to come out, Sh-- HAWKER.
 
What was the evidence presented in trial to prove the plaintiffs market manipulation conspiracy theory Econ. 101?

That's the $1.28 "BILLION" dollar question.

Can you answer it without diverting?

I've only asked it a dozen or more times now.


~SH~
 
The calculated sum of the damages over the period in question. The jury wrote in the 1.28 billion judgement, not me. I am sorry you do not agree with it.
 
Econ. 101,

How can the damages be more than the profits?

What was the proof of market manipulation presented by the plaintiffs?

Dance man, DANCE!


~SH~
 
~SH~ said:
Econ. 101,

How can the damages be more than the profits?

What was the proof of market manipulation presented by the plaintiffs?

Dance man, DANCE!


~SH~


Who's to say damages have to equal profits? you? I can seee you in a court of law telling the judge .....well your honor I only stole 2k,why are you setencing me to 10 years and a 10k fine ?some times your logic ? is bout a half bubble off..............good luck
 
~SH~ said:
Econ. 101,

How can the damages be more than the profits?

~SH~

The jury was obviously awarding Punitive damages, since I don't believe the plaintiffs ever asked for a specific dollar amount.

They must have been passionately persuaded by the plaintiffs testimony to do so.
 
You didn't answer the question Mike.

How can the legal damages be higher than the total profits?

This is not an issue of "passionately persuaded" this is an issue of "profoundly ignorant".


~SH~
 
~SH~ said:
You didn't answer the question Mike.

How can the legal damages be higher than the total profits?

This is not an issue of "passionately persuaded" this is an issue of "profoundly ignorant".


~SH~

Who is to say they would of made a profit during those times? Is it not possible the hanky panky reversed losses and turned them to gains? Here I'll make it simple for you..... My business was going to lose $10,000, so I stole $15,000 from you. Now I'm showing a profit of $5000. See how the theft can be more than the total profits?

You should get in the habit of thinking before typing - then again, that would be a huge loss of entertainment or the rest of us.......... :lol:
 
Thank you, Sandhusker. I feel SH owes us all a lot for the education he is getting. It might be more than he has the ability to pay.
 
Econ101 said:
Thank you, Sandhusker. I feel SH owes us all a lot for the education he is getting. It might be more than he has the ability to pay.

He'll counter that he owes us nothing because it didn't sink in - and he'd be absolutely correct. :lol:
 
Econ101 said:
The calculated sum of the damages over the period in question. The jury wrote in the 1.28 billion judgement, not me. I am sorry you do not agree with it.

By your logic in the answer you provided you should not be challenging the courts ruling. The courts opinion is what counts, not your opinion. You did not make the courts opinion either.

I agree with the latter statement-the courts opinion is what counts. All your legal and literary jargon is meaningless. It impresses no one since it is without any factual backing. Talk is cheap, from you it has proven to be absolutely worthless. Tap..Tap, Rover, quit tapping my phone with your tail. That is as close as you will ever get to having your phone tapped. Give the real world a break from your paranoia.
 
agman said:
Econ101 said:
The calculated sum of the damages over the period in question. The jury wrote in the 1.28 billion judgement, not me. I am sorry you do not agree with it.

By your logic in the answer you provided you should not be challenging the courts ruling. The courts opinion is what counts, not your opinion. You did not make the courts opinion either.

I agree with the latter statement-the courts opinion is what counts. All your legal and literary jargon is meaningless. It impresses no one since it is without any factual backing. Talk is cheap, from you it has proven to be absolutely worthless. Tap..Tap, Rover, quit tapping my phone with your tail. That is as close as you will ever get to having your phone tapped. Give the real world a break from your paranoia.

You are sounding a little like SH, Agman. I thought you were the backup "good" quarterback. You need a little more than that. The jury is the question, not the judge. The judge did not contradict the jury with any factual data, just the opinion of one judge who probably understood the methodology as much as the appellate court.

Don't worry, one day you will have only one judge. Until that day comes we have a jury system of 12 jurors.

I am appalled at the appellate court's lack of understanding of economic principles as noted in the Robinson-Patman example it used. To use that example and then call into questions the Daubert issues is ludicrous. You have not played backup quarterback to that issue yet. Are you scared???

Pull your buddy SH out of the quicksand he is in. Don't be scared of sinking yourself. Want to take up the challenge?
 
SH: "Who is to say they would of made a profit during those times? Is it not possible the hanky panky reversed losses and turned them to gains? Here I'll make it simple for you..... My business was going to lose $10,000, so I stole $15,000 from you. Now I'm showing a profit of $5000. See how the theft can be more than the total profits?"

Your proof of "hanky panky" is...........



~SH~
 
GIPSA and others that have looked into these un-priced forward contracts have stated that the packers have the ability to manipulate the market. GIPSA said they lack the legal power to get to the documentation to gather proof(if the proof is there at all). Shouldn't the ability to manipulate a free market place be of concern? Isn't that why we got the P&SA? I'm sure AT&T and Standard Oil would be quite efficient today! :???: :?

Econ 101, haven't been able to follow all your post like I would like to (this little thing called Katrina has occupied my time), but seems you are having lots of fun with SH and Agbuddy. Carry on!!! :D
 
RM: "GIPSA and others that have looked into these un-priced forward contracts have stated that the packers have the ability to manipulate the market. GIPSA said they lack the legal power to get to the documentation to gather proof(if the proof is there at all). Shouldn't the ability to manipulate a free market place be of concern? Isn't that why we got the P&SA?"

That is not true!

First of all, captive supply forward contracts are not unpriced, they are priced off the futures market.

You didn't even get that right.

GIPSA has investigated the market manipulation conspiracy theory regarding captive supplies repeatedly and can find no proof of market manipulation. I have that information.

NEXT!



~SH~
 
The case that mirrored the Pickett case in GIPSA was prosecuted under GIPSA Secretary Jim Baker in their legal process. The current acting head of GIPSA, JoAnn Waterfield was an attorney over at OGC. She prosecuted the case and lost it in GIPSA's process (which is flawed). This was under the Clinton administration (haven't we already talked about Hillary's commodity trades with Tyson on the other side of those deals making them profitable?).

It also bears mentioning that there were ties with Republicans during this time. Wendy Gramm, wife of Tx Senator Phil Gramm, was on the commodities board. She was also on the board at Enron, which is one of the reasons Phil Gramm is no longer a senator. These pricing scams are easy to do if you know the limitations to the data being collected. That was the case with Hillary Clinton and her commodity trades.

Any comments SH and Agman? Cat got your tounge?

Are you beginning to see familiar people around the shell game table?

You SH-- Hawker, you.
 

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