RoperAB said:Jason said:Roper, I read the entire article and it doesn't use valid numbers.
It grabs a statement from Mike Callicrate about the $400 packers are taking from producers. This is a lie. He has started his own packing venture and actually retails the beef, the biggest premium he has given is $50 a head and he is charging a premium to consumers, yet he is struggling.
Even if the BSE subsidy numbers are correct, they calculate to 13.8% of the cattle owned, hardly the majority of cattle.
The situation of IBP (now Tyson) setting the price for all packers, that's ludicris. That would mean the other packers wait and buy what is left over after Tyson gets full. If that was the case why does the market got up? Why doesn't Tyson just say 50 cent flat rate on fats?
Thanks for the article, but remember to check their credibility.
Reply
Okay a question for you.
When the border was closed, old swing bags were selling for two cents a pound live weight. But we were still paying $2 to $3 a pound retail for hamburg? Why?
I dont know anything about dirt farming but its seems to be the same way for them. In other words the price they get for their wheat has nothing to do with the price of retail flour.
Who is making the money?
Its not the cow/calf guy. Everyone I know is either bankrupt or their wife has a good job and in lots of cases the husband has to work out to make ends meet.
Its not the auction marts.
I dont think its the small idependent feeders either.
Remember when the Alberta government tried to force the big three packers to open their books? Remember how they refused and the government was fineing them for everyday that they didnt comply. What ever happened with that anyway?
ocm said:agman said:ocm said:What makes you say Callicrate is struggling? Is your information possibly out of date?
With the $50 dollars per head premium he pays producer suppliers versus what he charges for meat he makes everyone else in the beef business look like saints.
With several of the major packers now entering the Natural Beef market those short term economic profits will narrow considerably as they begin to supply a growing but limited market.
Sounds like you are confirming that he is not "struggling."
When he sells the meat at his restaurant isn't that "value added" that you talk about.
Tommy said:mj...Didn't the "struggling" comment come from Callicrate himself, BEFORE he opened the restaurant, when he was trying to simply operate the meat marketing business? I believe he made that statement in western SD while speaking to some group, possibly R-CALF members, don't recall the details other than the struggling and the $50.00 premium to producers he was offering.
MRJ
mj, I am not saying Callicrate did not struggle some getting his business going, most do I think, but if I had made a statement about someone from the NCBA like you just did about M. Callicrate, you would have demanded facts. You use words like, I believe, possibly, and I don't recall and we are to take it as a fact.
Mrs.Greg said:I'm not saying the packers are not a nessary evil in the end I suppose that is where our calves from our cow-calf operation end up.Although of late we have been feeding some of them out selling to nieghbors to have butchered at local meat cutting shop. Greg and I have NEVER taken even an out of province holiday let alone a overseas trip and our best truck is a 92 ford 4by 4...Good try though Jason! My reason for asking you the question was it seemed awfully funny the packing plants sure didn't want to hand thier books over when asked.
Jason said:Mrs.Greg said:I'm not saying the packers are not a nessary evil in the end I suppose that is where our calves from our cow-calf operation end up.Although of late we have been feeding some of them out selling to nieghbors to have butchered at local meat cutting shop. Greg and I have NEVER taken even an out of province holiday let alone a overseas trip and our best truck is a 92 ford 4by 4...Good try though Jason! My reason for asking you the question was it seemed awfully funny the packing plants sure didn't want to hand thier books over when asked.
A necessary evil. Interesting phrase. Why evil? Do they control forces of darkness?
Granted they are not in business to make sure you and I make money, but does that make them evil? Do you lose money so I can make it or vice versa? No way! Your business is exactly that, as is mine.
I congratulate you on selling some beef direct. It is a good learning experience.
Something to consider though, is the price you receive from the consumer all profit? Of course not. What expenses do you have to account for? The butcher has to be paid, killing fees, disposal fees. The initial cost, or value of the animal, what you could have sold it for last fall. Then it ate feed all winter. If you deliver the beef after processing, that is another cost. Phone calls and time spent should be factored in, but as with many of us we don't pay ourselves.
How do you arrive at the price of the beef? Most just ask the butcher what the going rate is. His price is based off the markets and what the packers are paying.
You might not have a nice truck or fancy vacations, but I hope you have some nice things. If not what's the point? Building a land base? That's one reason. Love the rural life, that's another. Whatever it is it is your choice, no one owes you a living from cattle, no one can keep you from enjoying what you have chosen to do. The packers aren't out to get you. Understanding how they work helps you decide how to maximize your bottom line.
Jason said:Pickett was dismissed get over it.
Find some proof that will hold up to scrutiny. 12 jurors were fooled. I suppose you think OJ was innocent too. 12 jurors said he was.
You have posted how Tyson is struggling with chicken you can't go back and say that is where they are getting the money to run others out of beef.
Econ: Where did I say that, Jason?
Prove something for once in your life. You still don't even know what a cwt is.
Econ: Jason, you don't have the capacity to know what I know or don't know.
If Tyson is buying out the competition provide the proof. They bought IBP to ENTER the beef business. If they wanted to control the beef end of processing, they would be buying Smithfield, Cargill etc. etc. They haven't even expressed interest in the further processing arm con-agre is selling.
Econ: Do your own research, Jason. Just because they are not doing what you or SH prescribe doesn't prove your point.
If you had any knowledge of the beef industry you wouldn't make such an ash out of yourself with every post.
Econ: Just because people don't agree with you, you have to call them names?
Your pathetic conspiracy theories can temporarily side track producers who are starting to realize they need to be more informed in their own industry.
Econ: They need to be more informed, I agree. To have to give in to the packer mentality that you espouse is not any better than knowing a lie.
Accurate information is power. Conspiracy and blame are wasted effort that might take a person with some real vision away from making a difference.
Econ: What vision, Jason? rkaiser has you beat hands down on that one.
Mrs. Greg has a right to wonder what is going on in Canada. The BSE fiasco has been very difficult on all producers. I have survived the same markets and a drought in 2003. I know what it takes. If I had resigned myself to the despair that packers control the industry I might not have survived the crisis. Seeing the facts helps a person to focus and head for the goals that will help them most.
Econ: No one is questioning Mrs. Greg's right to wonder on what is going on in Canada. It would be nice if you brought some facts rather than the propaganda campaign of packer bias you bring. Why don't you ask your packer bosses to open their books?
Tyson forecast a second-quarter loss and projected fiscal 2006 income of 50 cents to 80 cents per share.
Analysts had been expecting 2006 earnings of $1.07 per share.
"Our future use of cash will first be to reinvest in our business,"
"The next use of cash will be to evaluate acquisitions, with an emphasis on international expansion."
Jason said:"Our future use of cash will first be to reinvest in our business,"
Sounds like upgrading plants they already own.
They are not buying their competition.
"The next use of cash will be to evaluate acquisitions, with an emphasis on international expansion."
Evaluating acquisitions with emphisis on international expansion is not buying their competition.
Consider yourself refuted. :wink:
Jason said:Remember this headline conman the convict?
Tyson forecast a second-quarter loss and projected fiscal 2006 income of 50 cents to 80 cents per share.
Analysts had been expecting 2006 earnings of $1.07 per share.
That is from an article you posted how Tyson is struggling.
Change your mind again if you like. The facts are there.
You haven't got a clue what RKaiser is doing, nor do you know how much influence bloodlines from my herd have had on the North American cowherd. To say one is more of a visionary than the other betrays your lack of research or knowledge about the industry as a whole.
I say Tyson isn't buying their competition, you can't prove they are, no one brings an article to show they are, yet my statement is questioned. However the same cannot be said of you. You make a statement it is refuted and you assert it is true just because you say so.
You avoid the cwt like the plague and get very defensive when I bring it up.
Everyone who wants to, knows who I am, I have had people contact me from posts I have made on this site. I have even sold cattle to Texas from this site. I don't need your approval to know I am sucessful. In fact if I were to have your approval, I would likely be in serious trouble of bankruptcy.
Jason said:Pickett was dismissed get over it.
Find some proof that will hold up to scrutiny. 12 jurors were fooled. I suppose you think OJ was innocent too. 12 jurors said he was.
You have posted how Tyson is struggling with chicken you can't go back and say that is where they are getting the money to run others out of beef.
Econ: Where did I say that, Jason? "
Jason, I said the chicken market is soft right now. It is still higher than their 4 year ago numbers. Soft is a relative term. I have already posted that the 4 year ago number in cents per lb. whole bird was 52 (yes I could have said it a different way). It never ceases to amaze me how you go a step further than what one says to jump to some conclusion you have made up in your own head and then attribute that thought as something the person said. Your sense of reality is problematic. When I post articles from other people it means that I did not write them nor do I certify everything they say. Their per share earnings do not show exactly where those earnings come from all the time. To draw the conclusions you have drawn, you have to be on something. These articles have information in them, sometimes refutable information, and sometimes not. I expect you to be able to tell the difference, but then again, I may be expecting too much out of you.
If you say Tyson is not buying their competition, you don't know very much about the history of Tyson. Their history in beef is relatively short. It is not in poultry. I have already posted articles on how they bought Hudson Foods and you already know they bought IBP and hence acquired Lakeside. All of these are recent competitors. If you don't understand that Tyson got as big as they are by buying other companies with just these few little facts, let alone their history in the poultry business, you just don't have a clue about what you are talking about, let alone what Sandhusker brings up about the recent article.
I don't doubt that you are a visionary. It is a vision of packers controlling the industry to a greater extent. That is not a good vision for producers.
As far as answering your little question, keep trying little boy. As I have told you before, I don't dance to your little tune and your amaturish tries at getting me to play your games are amusing. You do try the same tactic repeatedly, however. Do you think I can be worn down by the likes of you?
I am glad everyone wants to know you and that you have sold cattle all around. As I have said before:
I hope you get your operation reversed.